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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:28 pm 
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And all we have to do is take the philosophy that it would take a crowbar to dislodge that dollar from my pocket. We will see that happening in America as the recession deepens, but of course the ripple effect on the very poor should be something of concern also. They have it hard enough now, imagine when those low paying but money "anyway you can get it" jobs disappear in all those third world countries. Are we prepared to keep them from starving or will that be on our conscience as our leaders refuse to help with all the problems in our own first world countries?

There's a price to pay for the years of consumerism we have as part of our structure, that keeps us above the flood of humanity. Who will accept that they are now poor when we know what was. The culture shock may be too much for us.

Oh yeah, we like good ideas here, so keep your thoughts coming rage and revolve around here for a bit. :D

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:20 pm 
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The thing is, you dont need to be super tight and totally green to make a difference. it just takes numbers.
a 10% drop in sales are big issues for corporations, but dont affect us much at all. Imagine just cutting down a little bit. but if everyone did it....the result would be disasterous on the corporations.

theres this fellow by the name of Joel S. Hirschhorn who suggest that consumerism is the way to fight plutocracy.
i came across him after seeing this vid by Ella.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiaX-AMtj0g

An essay by Joel S. Hirschhorn advances the idea that we live in a 'delusional' democracy and for people to bring about change new tactics must be used in contrast to conventional political activism.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:12 pm 
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I know it might dmage them a little but it isn;t near enough. I advocate a general buying shutdown of everything for one day- no use of power , autos and entertainment - shut the whole city down so people can figure out what it's going to be like for them soon and then offer them an option like 20%. Hegelian dialectic on a grand scale. Of course that spending must be used to spread the goodness throughout the world as well.

here's the Story of Stuff so you can get up to speed on the seriousness of this.

http://www.storyofstuff.com/

I think the problem is even more serious than what 10% can do. That is just a tease for the S'mores crowd that just causes a reflex reaction of overspending like most addicts find when they don't have their stash anymore. We have to exorcise the demon greed from us and accept that this way of living is not sustainable. Learn to accept less as 'more than enough' and find the moderation point where we all can share what we have and care about each other, so we can recapture the strength in community.

This is a major reversal from what we have learned and been programmed to believe. How you gonna stop them from going to Wal-Mart for that cheap Chinese crap?

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:01 pm 
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This is the thing that makes it all suck. Americans and most westerners are so completely spoiled by technology and the ability to buy relatively cheap things that used to be considered luxuries that no one wants something that isn't new. How many people do you know that lease a car rather than buy it and drive it into the ground? Or who would rather spend $200 on a pair of shoes to just sit in their closet, instead of going through their old stuff and giving it away? I see people set out things for the garbage man that are shameful. Vacuums, tvs, furniture of all sorts. Especially here in my town where there is a huge university. Kids' parents buy them new furniture EVERY SINGLE FUCKING YEAR, so at the end of a school year, they pull all of their stuff out onto the curb and go home for the summer. The waste is staggering. Thankfully, a few people do go around and are able to furnish themselves and others with this "garbage", but a lot of it gets picked up and added to the landfills.

A perfect example of why we can't share is that everybody thinks they should be paid for everything. Kindness and generosity aren't even virtues any longer. My mother goes nuts because every time I clean out my house, closets, storage (I keep everything, kinda) I first call anyone I know who needs things I have and give it away that way. I've given driers and beds and couches and cribs and clothes...on and on. My mother, on the other hand, thinks its nearly criminal to not charge for things, even if its only a little bit. My thing is, if someone is needing what I no longer need/use, why not give it to them? Otherwise, it will just sit somewhere around here and collect dust, as I throw away NOTHING useful at all. But this is coming from the person who in her entire life has only bought two "new" things: a couch when I graduated college and a car when mine literally fell apart while driving down the road. Everything I have was given and I am proud of each thing and I love each thing. And I have cool shit. The desk my pc is on right now is probably 100 years old...the dresser I use is from the 40s...on and on. People think that shit has to be brand new or its no good. I want old with character over shiny and new ANY DAY.

And, Do.g's, I think that it would be fantastic if for even just a month that all modernity would cease; no tv, electricity, phones, cars, batteries...all that stuff. I think that people would be miserable at first, but then learn to do other things with their time and realize how much of their lives they waste doing NOTHING productive.

Blah, blah, I've been wordy lately.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:56 am 
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It's been a long time since a thread in this forum made it to the "blinking" stage! :P

Congrats to all who participate in it. Keep the good ideas flowing through good discussions. :D

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:54 am 
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lefty wrote:
People think that shit has to be brand new or its no good. I want old with character over shiny and new ANY DAY.



Couldnt agree with you more.
The thing that blows me away is that antiques made 50, 100 or more years ago are still in such good order.
most of the stuff you buy today lasts a few years at the most.

I have an old windup grammophone that works as good as the day it was made. The sound is well, a little sketchy, but for something that doesnt require a powerplug, its fantastic.

With todays throw away items, photos that are digital, Information that is stored online, CD backups that last less than 10 years.
All that will remain from us next century is a pile of grey chemical goo.

If the internet dies before then, there will be scarce records of our time past 1950.
Good luck to our future Archeoligists, trying to decipher all that garbage we left behind.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:37 am 
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Even our buildings are disgusting and disposable. How many abandoned metal buildings are there in your town? I know that here there are TWO HUGE former grocery store shopping centers that are completely blighted. The stores were put out of business by walmart (which has built THREE new buildings, a new one every 10 years or so), and no one can afford such a large storefront for anything practical. Our architecture is just as cheap as everything else. It does stand up. It leaves nothing to be proud of in the future. Ugh. Its very depressing. Cheap is where everything is. And sadly, because everything is cheap, no one makes a decent wage, so no one can afford things that aren't cheap...it's a cycle; I like to call it the walmart cycle. Walmart moves in and closes everything down, everyone has to work at walmart, so all they can afford is walmart. It reminds me of that movie demolition man, where all of the restaurants were Taco Bells.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:01 am 
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I always wonder if Aliens look at us through their telescopes, and from that distance all they see is a disease or virus devouring the planet.

Id hate to think of us as a disease, but seriously arent we killing our host?
and just like a virus we just go about our lives individually surviving. but our collective bulk is more than this planet can handle.

So yeah....enough moaning and bitching about this topic,
Heres some positive questions.


1. what can we do to solve this problem?

2. Have you got any ideas on how to get the message out?

3. Do you do the best you can for yourself? if so why stop there?

4. maybe you think there isnt anything we can do, are we a run away freight train?


Its time we had some creative thinking about this subject, lets hear some of your ideas and i will gladly share mine.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:31 am 
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My house is full of old stuff. My sister is in charge of recycling at the local landfill and she rescues some wonderful things. Last week she brought me a beautiful Baker captain's chair which someone was throwing away. All it needs is a bit of upholstery replacement. It even has the Baker tag on its underside. My father worked at a Baker Furniture plant for many years and we used to joke that even with his employee's discount, I could not afford to purchase anything from that company. I don't know much about Baker now, but this chair was probably made in the late 50s or early 60s.

If you want to get a major understanding of how really bad the new stuff really is, go to http://www.my3cents.com Read about Ashley Furniture, Rooms to Go, and other stores and their products. It's a good resource to check before you buy anything, really.

If you've bought a bad product lately, vent at that website and let others know what you've experienced.

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"Behind every great fortune lies a great crime."
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"Democrats work to help people who need help.
That other party, they work for people who don't need help.
That's all there is to it."

~Harry S. Truman


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