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Author:  Nina [ Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:42 pm ]
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So we blame the corporations, but WHY are there corporations? The answer is simple, to produce products that WE buy and use. So who's really to blame. We are. How many cars do you have? Do you drive an SUV or minivan, truck? How many children do you have? More than 2? Then you are adding to the overpopulation of the earth. The corporations exist because we buy what they sell plain and simple! Do you shop at Walmart because there prices are low? Well why are there prices lower and what happens to the little mom and pop establshment that can't stay afloat because they can't compete? They go under. Ahhhhhhh what was this thread about again? Oh yeah, global warming. lol Fewer people on the planet ultimately would mean less stress on the planet. So the number one cause of global warming is just the fact that there are so many people on this planet!

Author:  DO.g's [ Sun Oct 30, 2005 3:10 pm ]
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So you have arrived at the "Ultimate Solution" point- a mass culling of the population. Welcome to the reality that the Bush administration and those before it have arrived at. Use the earth and it's environment as a way to produce the money required so that only those of supreme standing will survive, while the rest of us enjoy the finality of the armageddon apocalyptic theme that runs through all our end of the world scenarios.

Like I said, time is running short. Either we act collectively to curb our excesses, or kiss your ass goodbye.

Enjoy the ride.

Author:  Nina [ Sun Oct 30, 2005 3:26 pm ]
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I would say it's more a matter of education and responsibilty. I know where I live the deer poplation get so large that durring the winter months there is not enough natural food for them to eat so they will starve to death. We are smarter then the animals (or at least I hope we are). Should we not think about the consequences are actions have on our environment? The topic was about global warming and I merely pointed out that the poplulation of the planet is ultimately what is causing the strain on the environment. Like you said we need to curb our appetite for excess and that includes having so many children, not the purposeful act of illimating those we already have. I would say it's a pretty logical decuction that one needs no special links to back up. It's called common sense.
I know that link I just posted is suppose to be a funny picture, but to me it just screams of overcrowding and of a place I would not want to live.
How many of you ever talk to others about the number of children they want to have? I know I do and it just amazes me that none of them every think beyond themselves and what they want or see as a perfect family. There is no thought to the increase population by having so many kids. Am I the only one frustrated by this? I feel like it. Why do people just not get it?! Years ago folks had very large families. The death rate was high and there was no easily obtained birth control. Maybe all these hurricanes, floods, plagues are really just mother earth cleansing herself.

Author:  DO.g's [ Sun Oct 30, 2005 3:42 pm ]
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Of course it is a problem. That is why there is a plan to eradicate most of the populatin, perhaps 5 billion, and then ensure that this problem is never repeated, by controlling the right to have children, who can have them and how many. I t will be much easier to do with a compliant population.

We are in agreement that overpopulation and corporations greed are the cause of global warming. How are you going to convince the people on the planet now to start controlling their populations? Do you think with all the greed and need in the world, people are going to listen? What do you propose to do? Educate them? Will they listen to you? Will they trust you? Most people don't know much about the world outside of what they can see, so I think it may be a difficult thing to pull off. Besides our own education system is very negligent in stopping our excessive lifestyle and why should others not want what we have and take to excess.

I'm waiting for answers if you have any.

Author:  Nina [ Sun Oct 30, 2005 3:55 pm ]
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I live in a rural area and have since I was young. I have had this same feeling since then and have always spoken of it in hopes of educating people, but people don't listen because they don't want to. I love kids, and wouldn't have minded having more, but stopped at 2. Even folks with 3 kids I don't see as really being a bad thing but what is it with folks like that family who just had their 16th?! I just don't get it. They are selfish in my estimation. Maybe we should just start submiting letters to the editor in our local newspapers or something. I honestly don't want to put a limit on the number of children a couple should have, it's just wrong, but I do wish people would understand what they are doing to the world we live in. As far as an answer I have none, because as of yet I haven't spoken to even one person that it made a difference with. They just want what they want and damn anything else.

Author:  DO.g's [ Sun Oct 30, 2005 5:29 pm ]
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So do many of us, but not the majority.

In some parts of the world, having many children is a hedge against famine in a strange permutative way. Somehow having more children and ergo more mouthes to feed, is a guarantee that some will survive to pass on the genetics. We over here buy into that, thinking our purpose is to be immortal through our children. It is more crap we believe, and our agriculture gave us the ability to have large fanmilies, unlike our hunter gatherer ancestors who could only maintain a defined tribe size.

Don't give up spreading the word about our excessive ways. It may seem that it is insane at times to pass on sane advice to the blind and ignorant. They shrug their shoulders, content in knowing that they are in their comfort zone and return to their disorganised non functional homes with a view to wealth and ease as their grail. I always remember in Toynbees "Decline and fall of Roman Empire" how when the Vandals were at the gates, the rich stood amidst all their wealth and possessions, offering their gold, if the poor would only carry their burden for them. The poor told them to save themselves and their wealth. At that point we are all equals.

Don't give up Nina.

Author:  KC2LVD [ Sun Oct 30, 2005 9:24 pm ]
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Since about 1970, global warming seems to be rising at an exponential rate. It reminds me of one of Thomas Malthus' charts of population growth. So I did a little reading on Mr. Malthus, and was surprised to read, in Wikipedia, the following:
"..Recent research and significant empirical evidence have showed Malthus to be wrong. For example, the population has continued to grow, yet the prices of resources and foods relative to wages has decreased, indicating the supply of food (and resources) has grown relative to population size. This apparent paradox can be easily resolved because Malthus made two flawed assumptions. First, population growth is almost never exponential, but instead influenced by so many factors that no simple model can describe it. Second, the growth of food is also not linear (in particular, due to technological advances, such as the Green Revolution, food has outgrown the human population). However, technological advances like those advanced in the green revolution have yet to prove sustainability and therefore cannot be depended on to perpetuate such a system."
I still do stand firm in my belief that the quickest and best way to make the lower class into the upper class is through education.

Author:  dori [ Mon Oct 31, 2005 10:44 am ]
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Please keep educating people Nina. I know it seems hopeless, but you never know when you are going to plant a seed of recognition in someone.

Keep in mind, people are addicted to TV, and TV is run by huge corporations. Some of them make baby products and soap operas are rife with the glory of having more children. And...many people are easily led.

Also, some religions push producing more and more humans. You are fighting against the biggest corporations of all--churches. I am surrounded by Right to Lifers and it is worth your life to speak of sexuality education let alone birth control. They don't believe in any of the things that thinking people know are necessary to sustain life on this earth--in fact they don't want to sustain life on this earth, they want to hasten the return of that person they claim to love but don't pay any attention to the messages he brought.

How can you claim to love the very entity you ignore?

Author:  KC2LVD [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 10:03 am ]
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U.K.'s Indpendent, a publication known for balanced reporting, carried the following this morning as its top story in its on-line edition:

Climate change: 10 ways to save the world
Today, Tony Blair will address energy ministers from around the world on tackling climate change. But he is failing to meet his own targets, with British carbon emissions on the rise again. There are, though, measures he could adopt...


New law to commit the Government to reducing CO2 every year by a fixed amount - say, 3 per cent - audited by an independent body. A radical programme would then have to be implemented to meet the target.


Do away with the vast power stations serving the national grid: think microgeneration. Give every city, every town, every village, its own power station, fitted with a combined heat and power (CHP) system, which cuts CO2


Put a power station in every basement: change building regulations to make all new buildings provide their own power, with solar panels, mini-wind turbines and CHP systems to soak up wasted heat.


Ban standard light bulbs all over Britain and force us to use energy-saving bulbs instead, which soak up less than a quarter of the electricity. Hugely symbolic gesture which would save enormous quantities of CO2.


Start giving proper funding and backing to renewable energy other than wind: solar power, and power from the waves and tides. These have vast potential to supply CO2-free electricity, yet are underdeveloped.


Renew the impetus behind wind farms based in the sea with £1bn of subsidy: after a good start, development is slowing, because of technical and financial difficulties, yet we have unparalleled offshore wind resources.


Make sure every house in Britain that can be properly insulated is insulated; bring in much more rigorous labelling that can enable any consumer to see how much energy is used by a product.


Raise vehicle excise duty (VED) on cars such as 4x4s; make it more than £1,000 per vehicle and set it to rise further. If you want to be radical, insist on a health warning on the side: This Vehicle Damages The Environment.


Raise air passenger duty to end the cheap flight bonanza, as CO2 emissions from aircraft are the most rapidly rising in Britain and also the most damaging: they go straight into the stratosphere. A vote loser and a tough choice.


Do anything you can to get George Bush to change his mind about climate change. The world needs America, the biggest CO2 emitter, to lead the fight against global warming. The President is denying the evidence.

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