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 Post subject: I BELIEVE IN FREEDOM OF RELIGION HOW ABOUT YOU?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 10:18 am 
The New Religion is Global Warming
by Tom DeWeese (February 16, 2005)

Summary: Two kinds of scientists. One standing for true science based on the facts. The other pushing a political agenda that says science be damned, our global religion is at stake.

[www.CapMag.com]

The UN finally got what it wanted. The Kyoto Climate Change treaty becomes 'international law' this month on Wednesday. The treaty went into full effect with the approval by the Russian Federation, even without the support of the United States. Time will tell if and when the treaty will begin to affect the U.S. economy. What is certain is that truth and reason had no part in the process.


Global warming has become a new religion. No one is supposed to question whether it is a fact. I did and for my trouble I was labeled a “moron,” a “liar;” one who wants to “blow up the world,” and just plain “evil” to name a few from a mass of mail I received.


In particular, my article stated that there is no scientific evidence to support claims of man-made global warming. I pointed out that there is division among scientists and that there is no “consensus” among them.

I also reported that there are scientists who promote political agendas over truth to keep the grants coming in. And I said that the UN’s 1996 report issued by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) was edited at the last minute to remove two very important paragraphs that specifically said science showed no clear evidence of man-made climate change. Those were all facts.


Apparently I’m a moron for reporting them because as one letter said, “Everyone knows global warming is real.”


In response to these Luddites, I simply present this: A federal hurricane research scientist named Chris Landsea has resigned from the UN-sponsored climate assessment team because his group’s leader had politicized the process. Landsea said there was little evidence to justify Kevin Trenberth’s assertion in October that global warming was responsible for the strong hurricanes experienced this past year and that “the North Atlantic hurricane Season of 2004 may well be a harbinger of the future.”


Said Landsea in his resignation letter, “It is beyond me why my colleagues would utilize the media to push an unsupported agenda that recent hurricane activity had been due to global warming. My view is that when people identify themselves as being associated with the IPCC and then make pronouncements far outside current scientific understandings that this will harm the credibility of climate change science and will in the longer term diminish our role in public policy.”


Landsea closed his resignation letter by saying, “I personally cannot in good faith contribute to a process that I view as both being motivated by pre-conceived agendas and being scientifically unsound.”


There you have it. Two kinds of scientists. One standing for true science based on the facts. The other pushing a political agenda that says science be damned, our global religion is at stake.


Global Warming has become a religion that the faithful have vowed to follow no matter what the true facts may show. Global Warming is a theory, nothing more, and large numbers of scientists around the world are beginning to question its validity. There is no consensus of support.


The fact is the Kyoto Protocol will have absolutely no effect on climate change, but the faithful demand that it be implemented anyway, because “we have to do something.” In 1990, Timothy Wirth, who later became Bill Clinton’s Under Secretary of State for Global Affairs said, “We’ve got to ride the global warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong we will be doing the right thing…”


Global Warming is nothing more than a euphemism for redistribution of wealth from the rich, development nations to jealous dictatorships who refuse to allow their citizens the right to gain their own wealth through free markets. It's about political redistribution from strong, independent sovereign nations into the hands of a power-hungry global elite cowering in the United Nations. These are the same cowardly scoundrels who used to try to rule the world through global communism. Today they pretend that the same lies have something to do with protecting the environment.


The truth is there is no man-made global warming. There’s only the scam of an empty global religion designed to condemn human progress and sucker the feeble minded into worldwide human misery. I rest my case. Amen.



About the Author: Tom DeWeese is the publisher/editor of The DeWeese Report and president of the American Policy Center: www.americanpolicy.org


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 10:22 am 
When there is no conclusive science to back up a claim, it becomes a BELIEF. If Christian or Moslems tried to force their beliefs on the rest of us like Earth worshippers are, 'liberals' would be outraged. Please, I've heard your pitch, and I don't want to become a follower of your religion, so leave me be!


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 10:51 am 
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Global warming has become a new religion. No one is supposed to question whether it is a fact. I did and for my trouble I was labeled a “moron,” a “liar;” one who wants to “blow up the world,” and just plain “evil” to name a few from a mass of mail I received.


you mention in numerosu posts how you've been labeled all sorts of "liberal" names, because of your thinking, but then you proceed to defend the very issue you supposedly spoke out against.

your plan isn't working very well in this forum...too transparent, so why not cut thru the bullshit and just admit to the obvious fact that you are a right wing conservative.

Please, I've heard your pitch, and I don't want to become a follower of your religion, so leave me be!

sheesh...you made your pitch and we made ours. you return with your crap again, then ask us to "leave me alone"...lol call your therapist and cry on his shoulder.

also reported that there are scientists who promote political agendas over truth to keep the grants coming in. And I said that the UN’s 1996 report issued by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) was edited at the last minute to remove two very important paragraphs that specifically said science showed no clear evidence of man-made climate change. Those were all facts.

can you post some proof, other than what you say that something was, in fact, removed? addtionally, i don't think there argument should center around whether global warming is "man-made" or not, but i doubt any scientist would not say it isn't happening. it could be a natural event, after all, many ice caps are melting as well as receeding glaciers, i haven't heard any (real) scientists doubting that.

so, it comes down to those two words: man-made or not.

this is what the debate is all about: is global warming from fossil fuels and polution or a natural event ? there is no "religion" in believing whether it's true or not, that's just another right-wing pro-corporate jingle they like to throw around.

however, you obviously have your mind made up that everything is cool with the planet, so why continue discussing it?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 1:26 pm 
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shane7 wrote:
When there is no conclusive science to back up a claim, it becomes a BELIEF. If Christian or Moslems tried to force their beliefs on the rest of us like Earth worshippers are, 'liberals' would be outraged. Please, I've heard your pitch, and I don't want to become a follower of your religion, so leave me be!


Fine, go ahead and leave the planet... Be my guest... Adios... Aloha... Ciao... Write when you get to Alpha Centauri...

Or you could just reinsert your head up your keister and continue to breathe that methane you hold so dear...

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:34 am 
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Why look at that. Turns out I am religious after all...


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:53 pm 
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Hey, how bout that Las Vegas... 117 on Tuesday... tied their all time high... previously set in August...

Hey how about all those Tropical systems? 6 so far and counting... Do you know when the last time was that we had six named systems before August?

Oooops... trick question... NEVER!

But it doesn't matter whether or not you believe global warming is happening just like it doesn't matter if you believe that gravity sucks, cuz it will just continue to get hotter...

Got ice?

not for long...

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:22 pm 
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And while some people are getting record rain, some are getting record drought.

Something is fowling the weather up, But heck, wny not ignore it and just 'enjoy' the wonderful hot, hot hot!

(How many have died from this latest heat wave so far?)


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 1:01 pm 
so, it comes down to those two words: man-made or not.

this is what the debate is all about: is global warming from fossil fuels and polution or a natural event ? there is no "religion" in believing whether it's true or not, that's just another right-wing pro-corporate jingle they like to throw around.

however, you obviously have your mind made up that everything is cool with the planet, so why continue discussing it?[/quote]

Thank you for your reply, and for taking the time to read some of the articles I've posted in regards to global warming (gw). I hope you recognize the valid and factual statements made in them, and that you attach some credibility to them. Why continue discussing it? Because decisions are being made by our rulers that will seriously impact our quality of life. My whole problem with the gw issue is what I perceive as a lack of meaningful debate. Doesn't that bother you? Conventional wisdom and popular opinion seem to be:

Premise: gw is being caused by mankind's use of fossil fuels (ff)
Consequence: Adverse future effects on Earth's lifeforms
Solution: Eliminate/curtail use of ff

I think there exist important facts and points that seriously contradict the above line of thinking. I will list a few here:

1. The question of whether or not the globe is warming is debatable.
2. Mankind's activities as a cause of gw is unlikely and unprovable.
3. Earth has gone through many warming and cooling periods throughout its existence--the vast majority of which occured before mankind's heavy use of ff; climatic change has been a constant on our planet.
4. If climate change has occured in the past, might it not be reasonable to think it will happen in the future, and may be occuring (naturally) now?
5. Current science/technology (s/t) cannot accurately predict weather patterns as near as a few weeks away, how can validity be placed on predictions of weather patterns decades away?
6. Extrapolation is not a valid predictor of future temperatures.
7. Current s/t cannot see into the future, nor tell us what impact advances in s/t (like new energy sources) will have on current assumptions.
8. With all of mankind's advances, we remain--to a large extent--at nature's mercy (hurricanes, blizzards, extreme heat/cold, earthquakes, asteroids, etc.).

I think these are reasonable, valid, and agreeable points that raise questions like:

1. If gw is debatable and mankind's culpability questionable, why are policies being seriously discussed and even implemented as if they were facts?
2. What would be the consequences of heavily curtailed (probably unwarranted and ineffective) energy use, with the stated aim of reducing or halting gw?
3. If gw/climatic change--and its consequences-- is a natural occurence that mankind cannot influence (like many, many other natural occurences), shouldn't resources be allotted to real solutions to potential problems?
4. Who stands to gain from current policy trends (gw as fact/reduced ff use as solution)?
5. Who will be harmed by current policy trends?
6. Shouldn't policy be based on scientific evidence/debate, rather than public opinion?
7. How will YOU be affected if ff usage is curtailed?

I am making the point that gw with ff as a cause is NOT a FACT. I am a lowly blue-collar worker w/internet access and an open mind. I have learned facts/viewpoints not reported in the mainstream media (what a suprise) about this issue. The world's rulers surely have many more resources than I at their disposal, and many respectable scientists and activists have brought the above mentioned facts to their attention. Why do they continue to pursue policy based on what could very likely be erroneous assumptions? I think everyone should be concerned about this.


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 Post subject: the Idiot speaks again. Shane 7 is redundant.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:00 pm 
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You obviously stand to profit or hope for potential profit from ignoring the issue. Tell it to the farmers from Texas to Illinois who face total disaster this year from drought so bad, nothing since the dust bowls compares. Yes the world goes through cycles, but nothing as quick as the one now being felt. I guess that answers who tends to profit from this industry. YOU, and people of your simple mindset.

The world temperature has risen .5 degrees Celcius in the last century since records have been accurately kept, but this is a deceptive figure. Temperate zones are increasing exponentially higher, and the north polar regions are increasing by 2.5 degrees Celsius. Tell the Inuit hunters that nothings happening, as he watches his pack ice disappear and moves his hunting grounds further out to sea. Tell the ecologist in the north about the permafrost that is turning into a slurry and being swept away by the rivers. Tell the northern forests that are expanding northwards at a rate of a kilometer a year into areas they haven't grown into since before the last iceage.

You're full of shit. Who's mindless regurgitations are you spewing. Yours? Highly unlikely. You seem as intelligent as a chunk of fossil fuel. Who do you work for? What's your motivation and who gave you a sense of privilege that allows you to continue to destroy and abuse our home, and only source of survival, EARTH. We all should be committed to finding an alternative to this wasteful and highly pollutable byproducts that our dependance on fossil fuels gives us. Robert Kennedy Jr. is an advocate of this, and if you know anything about the highly toxic byproducts, like mercury, from our dependance on petroleium, and nuclear waste byproducts, then you would begin to understand why we need to find safer alternatives to our present energy dependance. If someone can defeat the powerful monopolies that contriol our energy sources now, by providing a safe clean alternative, then I would gladly spend my money on them, rather than this present war mongering ,pollution generating, present model of earth destroying form of growth and profit that we are stuck with. You probably work for Haliburton or some subsidiary, collecting your 30 pieces of silver.

Without seeking alternatives the hydrogen generator would never have been invented, cold fusion would be an impossible dream, wind and solar panels wouldn't be worked on and improved. We'd continue with our coal and gas fired generators and continue with half the pollution that eastern Canada has to live with from the Ohio valley. People die and develop breathing problems from this pollution. We should sue your sorry asses off. This is why they have laws about downwind pollution from state to state, or you Americans and your insatiable GREED for POWER would not have any conscience about the consequences of you actions.

Piss off, idiot. But don't do it on Mother earth. Perhaps you, petroleum, fossil fuel, the nuclear waste and your human waste should all be sent out together into space, straight towards the sun.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:13 pm 
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Hey... How about that Gert? The earliest 7th named tropical system in the Atlantic Basin... EVER... beat the old record by two weeks...

It doesn't matter if shame believes that global warming is happening because of man or not because of man... it continues to happen without him...

Some people say.... (kudoes to Faux News) that the point of no return has already passed... that even if we stopped using petroleum products today, global warming would continue... there is nothing that can be done to stave off the inevitable...

We're doomed...


:(

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:17 pm 
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well, shane, it's like this::: most of us here and many others, believe that global warming is a reality and it is, in fact, caused by man burning fossil fuels. many of us feel the facts support our beliefs more than yours.

i'm not going to write a 10,000 word reply to your 10,000 reply either, so i made my answer as simple as i could. i doubt that you are going to change any minds in this forum, but that doesn't mean you can't try.

and, if we seem to be "too violent" towards those who MIGHT not be what we consider "liberal", it's only because you get battle hardened from many right wingers stopping by with their usual "cut and paste" so called fact sheets (that they cut from another right wing forum) then proceed to attack us if we disagree.

you have to admit, you certainly didn't come in here as graceful as one should.....right?

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 Post subject: What a tool of the system.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:44 pm 
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He's willing to commit matricide and go along with making Mother Earth nothing more than a test tube experiment. What a fool.

Then he wants us to believe he's a mere blue collar worker and has nothing to gain. He should be blue from the neck up!

He wants us to expand and open our eyes? Kettle? Pot? Black.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:09 pm 
[quote="mga"]well, shane, it's like this::: most of us here and many others, believe that global warming is a reality and it is, in fact, caused by man burning fossil fuels. many of us feel the facts support our beliefs more than yours.

i'm not going to write a 10,000 word reply to your 10,000 reply either, so i made my answer as simple as i could. i doubt that you are going to change any minds in this forum, but that doesn't mean you can't try.

and, if we seem to be "too violent" towards those who MIGHT not be what we consider "liberal", it's only because you get battle hardened from many right wingers stopping by with their usual "cut and paste" so called fact sheets (that they cut from another right wing forum) then proceed to attack us if we disagree.

You're right, I didn't take the time to introduce myself, and apologize for stepping on anyone's toes. However, I didn't come on here calling anyone names, either. I'm just always dismayed at people's close-mindedness, and their ideas of what they think freedom is. I, too, bought into the gw scare, esp. after all the crap the public (govt-run) education system filled my head with. As to the poster who thinks I'm misrepresenting myself, I don't know what to say. Is this site really so essential that provacateurs need to be sent here to disrupt your PC little world? I don't think so. I live in CA where regulations have pushed up production costs of gasoline. Do you know what everyone complains about? How the oil companies are shafting us. They support restrictions/regulations that make this commodity more expensive, then complain about it. It will be the same with gw. Environmentalists should be happy--the public has swallowed (been force-fed) their scare tactics hook, line, and sinker; it will only be a matter of time before Kyoto (or something like it) is imposed on us. Then you can all complain about how the oil companies are gouging us. If you look at our history, its been a series of one 'crisis' after another--with more govt and less individual freedom resulting from the solutions put forth. Just like the Patriot Act (which most of our elected officials didn't even READ) was portrayed as an 'emergency' measure to combat terrorism, so too is global warming a pretext for passing more legislation that take our rights away. It just amazes me that people don't make these connections.

you have to admit, you certainly didn't come in here as graceful as one should.....right?[/quote]


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:42 pm 
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shane....look...there is a "quote" button on every post made by anyone...if you just click on that, you will get the quote from the person you wish to address.....ok?

apparently you trying to do it yourself isn't working.

now, if you want to quote certain parts of a post, then you have to put this in the beginning of the quote: [ quote] and then, you have to end the original quote with this: [ /quote].

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 5:16 pm 
[quote]apparently you trying to do it yourself isn't working.[/quote]

like this?


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