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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:50 am 
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Humans have spent more than 99% of their time on earth in non-industrial societies.

Non-industrial society destroys ecosystems for food, clothing and shelter.
Industrial society destroys ecosystems for food, clothing and shelter plus thousands of unnecessary consumer goods.

Industrial society destroys necessary things - animals, trees, air, water and land for making unnecessary things - consumer goods.

Non-industrial societies have sustained on earth for thousands of years.
Industrial society has destroyed all ecosystems within 200 - 250 years.


Destroy consumerism......before it is too late.

Destroy Industrial Society.

Just do it.



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 7:29 pm 
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HI, sushil...good to see you again. How have you been?

Destruction of ways of life is seldom ever a good thing because usually innocent living things get caught in the net. We indeed must all stop consuming so much of the Earth's resources so quickly. Over-population is one of the problems that should have been addressed years ago by every country on the planet. Wanting everything NOW, IN THE MOMENT, and pretending that the future won't change is irresponsible and arrogant of far too many people, especially us.

Some of us here at TVNL happen to believe that families and individuals have to bring about the necessary change, and that is simply by becoming more self-sufficient. Some of us are growing our own food and driving much less. It's a start, anyway.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:29 am 
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Catherine wrote:
HI, sushil...good to see you again. How have you been?

Destruction of ways of life is seldom ever a good thing because usually innocent living things get caught in the net. We indeed must all stop consuming so much of the Earth's resources so quickly. Over-population is one of the problems that should have been addressed years ago by every country on the planet. Wanting everything NOW, IN THE MOMENT, and pretending that the future won't change is irresponsible and arrogant of far too many people, especially us.

Some of us here at TVNL happen to believe that families and individuals have to bring about the necessary change, and that is simply by becoming more self-sufficient. Some of us are growing our own food and driving much less. It's a start, anyway.



Dear Catherine,

Thanks for your post. I had gone out of Delhi for a few weeks. Now I am once again trying to spread my message. In the context of consumerism I want to give an example.



A person is being stabbed repeatedly at regular intervals - every hour.

Some people are trying to save the victim.

The sane way to save is - you first stop the attack – you prevent the attack.

What these insane people do - they allow the attack to be continued. They don’t stop it -- they don’t prevent it.

Instead, what they do - They say we are going to save the victim by using technology - the best technology - the best medical care.

Bring this technology - Bring that technology.

Bring this technology - Bring that technology.


They give the victim the best technology - the best medical care.

In the meantime the stabbing continues – every hour – even while the best medical care is being given.

One can imagine the fate of the victim.



Ecosystems are getting destroyed due to production of consumer goods.

Every consumer good is made by killing animals, trees, air, water and land - directly or indirectly. [ more killing of nature takes place when consumer goods are used and discarded]

Industrial society is destroying necessary things - animals, trees, air, water and land for making unnecessary things - consumer goods.

The sane way of saving ecosystems is - you stop production of consumer goods - you reduce production of consumer goods to the minimum level.

But the insane Industrial Society continues producing consumer goods [ in fact production is being increased every day]

The insane response of Industrial Society is - We will save the environment with technology - the best technology.

Bring this technology - Bring that technology.

Bring this technology - Bring that technology.


In the meantime production of consumer goods continues - 3 billion people living in cities are continuously engaged in - making , buying and selling of consumer goods - killing the ecosystems moment by moment.

One can imagine the fate of environment.



Height of Insanity.......Height of Abnormality.




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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:32 pm 
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Good to see you sushil_yadav. Your message is so important, I do hope humans will understand before it is too late to pollute the earth so badly no life will exist on it.

Listening to the people I know though, the only way humans will stop polluting is when they stop existing. As powerful as Al Gore's message was, people are ignoring it.

Please continue to speak out--every person who listens is a step in the right direction. We can't solve this one person at a time but at least those 'one persons' can work to change the thinking/actions of us all.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 2:18 pm 
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This is the perfect thread to post the contents of a Letter to the Editor that appeared this week in my local paper. The author was writing in response to one of last week's letters, which had supported off-shore drilling and drilling in the NWR. This person has the exact attitude I do...and I feel very little sympathy for those who are whining about the cost of fuel when they're driving an SUV and taking it on the road more than is necessary:

Quote:
.....Crude oil is a one-time deal. When it's gone, it's gone. In the last century, we have sucked up half of it, the easy half, the low-hanging fruit, so to speak. Now, we are into the part that is more difficult to get at. It is in more remote places, and largely under countries that really don't like us.

There's an important term to know: EROI, or Energy Return on Investment. If one considers the cost of getting that remote oil in, say, northern Alaska, in the harshest climate on earth, the energy it takes to extract that oil is going to be equal to or more expensive than the oil that is produced.

So the question has to be asked, "Why go after something that is going to cost more to get than it is worth?" If it takes a gallon of fuel to get a gallon of fuel, we're chasing our tails.

That is not a liberal concept. It's just a FACT. Don't listen to politicians on this point; they are clueless as to the facts of oil depletion. Listen to scientists and geologists who know the facts, and you'll see that we're in big trouble if we continue to gobble up our resources like starved wolves.

Politicians, either Liberal or Conservative, cannot make more crude oil appear on earth. They cannot make it easier to get, and they cannot continue to waste time on hydrogen or ethanol or biodiesel. I'll vote for the first one that tells the truth and simply says, "U.S. Citizens, you have to consume less energy, period."

If the person in the mirror does not change his or her habits of hopping in the car and driving anywhere, anytime, "just because," I have to say that person is getting just what they deserve when they take a beating at the gas pump.

We all have to change and face the facts that we can't drive as much. It's up to every person in every mirror to make the move. We are the ones to blame. All of us. Shame on us if we don't change our energy-consumption habits.




....

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:26 pm 
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As much as I agree with sy's intentions, I think she is absolutely wrong.

However, she is here so little I cant really start the debate.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:49 pm 
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Quote:
As much as I agree with sy's intentions, I think she is absolutely wrong.


Oh, come on, greenie, just because a person making statements you disagree with is not here very much, it doesn't mean you can't start a debate within a thread that is 2 pages long.

Go ahead and have your say, and I'm sure Sy will eventually reply... :D

(I'm glad to see you again, as well.)

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 Post subject: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:57 am 
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nygreenguy wrote:
As much as I agree with sy's intentions, I think she is absolutely wrong.

However, she is here so little I cant really start the debate.



It is you who is absolutely wrong.

I am a "He" - not "She".


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:15 am 
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Catherine, loved that letter to the editor. Wish I had people around here who thought like that.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:32 pm 
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Thanks, dori..I agree with the comments in that letter, too. Unfortunately, the author of the letter is in the minority in my neck of the woods. Heck, I still see Hummers being driven around with big real estate signs on them, and the real estate market here is also dead in the water.

I wish Sushil would return and add to this thread. I liked his analogy about the victim being stabbed again and again but nobody stops the attack.

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"Democrats work to help people who need help.
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That's all there is to it."

~Harry S. Truman


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:27 pm 
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Catherine wrote:
I wish Sushil would return and add to this thread. I liked his analogy about the victim being stabbed again and again but nobody stops the attack.



Catherine,

Industrial Society has destroyed necessary things for making unnecessary things.

Industrial society has destroyed animals, trees, air, water and land for making consumer goods.



In the context of modern society/ civilization someone has said :

It is like adding extra floors to your building by removing bricks from the lower floor/ foundation.


sushil_yadav


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:49 pm 
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I certainly agree, sushil. Glad to see you' re back!

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"Behind every great fortune lies a great crime."
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"Democrats work to help people who need help.
That other party, they work for people who don't need help.
That's all there is to it."

~Harry S. Truman


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:44 am 
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Good to see you again sushil.

Right on on your statement!

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 11:24 pm 
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Work has destroyed ecosystems.

Work has become a source of destruction in Industrial Society.

On a small planet whose circumference is just 40,000 km work has turned into overwork, unnecessary work, destructive work.

Most of the 3 billion people living in cities - 50% of world population - are engaged in overwork, unnecessary work, destructive work.

It is very important to understand the reasons for doing work.

Why do we work?

It is generally thought that people work because - they are smart, intelligent and hardworking. People work in order to feed themselves and their families.

Above reasons are totally wrong.

In the East sages had discovered thousands of years ago that people cannot stop working. People work because they cannot stop working.

Anyone who wants proof of this can try the following. Take leave from work for 10 days. Try to sleep continuously. Try to indulge in pleasure/ entertainment continuously. Try to relax continuously.

The energy generated by the food we eat forces us to work ceaselessly.

Energy = Energy[Physical Work] + Energy[Mental Work] + Energy[Suffering/ Subjective Experience]

All three energies on the right side are inversely proportional to one another.

When we do hard physical work or hard mental work or a combination of physical work and mental work almost all energy is used up in doing work.

When we stop physical work and mental work, the unused energy is experienced as suffering/ anxiety/ restlessness/ discomfort. This suffering is so intense - so unbearable - that most people cannot stop physical activity and mental activity simultaneously for even 2 minutes - they can stop work/activity only under the influence of drugs and alcohol.

There is no higher purpose behind work.

People do not work because they want to work.
People do not work for their family.
People do not work for their nation.
People do not work for any reason.

People work because they cannot stop working.

It does not matter what kind of work we do - whether it is physical work or any kind of mental work. As soon as we stop working we suffer from restlessness, anxiety, uneasiness and discomfort.

In Yoga and Meditation the goal is to stop Physical Activity and Mental Activity simultaneously - and then transform the subjective-experience of restlessness/ anxiety/ suffering into peace. This requires ability and years of effort. A large number of people in the east have tried to do this but very few have succeeded - maybe a few hundred or a few thousand in the entire history. Stopping work is not an option for most people living in this world.

Today 50% of world population - 3 bilion people are living in cities. These people cannot do farming in cities. Most of the people living in cities are engaged in unnecessary work - making things, buying things and selling things - leading to an endless cycle of unnecessary and destructive work.

Our small planet which is only 40,000 km in circumference cannot sustain a city-based industrial society.

A city-based industrial society destroys necessary things for making unnecessary things.

A city-based industrial society destroys animals, trees, air, water and land for making consumer goods.

In a city-based industrial society work turns into overwork, unnecessary work, destructive work.

Such a society ends up destroying the ecosystems - the very things that have created and sustained life on earth.



sushil_yadav
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Last edited by sushil_yadav on Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 1:11 pm 
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Interesting, sushil. This one thought covers so much territory.

I love your thinking and am so glad when you post.

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