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An end run on ethanol
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Author:  KenoshaMarge [ Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:51 pm ]
Post subject:  An end run on ethanol

An end run on ethanol
Rules for producing `clean' fuel may be relaxed, add pollution
The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency is planning to change the way ethanol plants are treated under the Clean Air Act, a move critics say could make it easier for the burgeoning industry to evade controls that dramatically reduce toxic air pollution. :scratch:

Here’s a link to the Chicago Tribune article about this.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nati ... ?track=rss

Author:  garagejazz [ Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:25 pm ]
Post subject: 

http://garagejazz.blogspot.com/2006/10/diesel-good-ethanol-bad-new-diesel.html
only in bushworld might we be able to say, diesel is good and ethanol is bad.

Author:  dori [ Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:56 am ]
Post subject: 

Quote:
One thing is for certain, I am much more likely to believe that big business is the benficiary of most Bushco policies. Just a normal day in Bushworld I suppose to put a Carbon Cloud Over a Green Fuel.


That quote is from garagejazz's blog, and truer words cannot be spoken.

A Carbon Cloud Over a Green Fuel.

Has Bushco written all over it!

Author:  nygreenguy [ Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:46 pm ]
Post subject: 

until i see a credibly study showing ethanol has a positive net energy balance, i cant support it.

Author:  Catherine [ Fri Oct 20, 2006 5:27 am ]
Post subject: 

I read gj's blog often and I think he's doing an excellent job.

Author:  garagejazz [ Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:11 am ]
Post subject: 

Quote:
nygreenguy
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 9:46 pm Post subject:
until i see a credibly study showing ethanol has a positive net energy balance, i cant support it.

greenie,
I was in the biz back in 79, when tax "gasohol", (10% ethanol/90% gasoline), had a short lived tenure. people have been fighting about NEB, 'net energy balance" since then. hard for me to believe that the debate is still open. i'll look around for you, but i made my mind up long ago that NEB was ok.

Author:  nygreenguy [ Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:13 am ]
Post subject: 

garagejazz wrote:
Quote:
nygreenguy
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 9:46 pm Post subject:
until i see a credibly study showing ethanol has a positive net energy balance, i cant support it.

greenie,
I was in the biz back in 79, when tax "gasohol", (10% ethanol/90% gasoline), had a short lived tenure. people have been fighting about NEB, 'net energy balance" since then. hard for me to believe that the debate is still open. i'll look around for you, but i made my mind up long ago that NEB was ok.


In the midwest, 99% of stations use a 10/90 blend still and you can find a lot of E85 stations. Still most recent reports ive seen still show a negative energy imbalance and use dirty methods to create the ethanol.

Author:  DO.g's [ Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:26 pm ]
Post subject: 

Perhaps there is a net gain of sorts for the environment here which isn't being included. Ethanol burns cleaner than gasoline or deisel thus, resulting in less harmful emissions as well as a cleaner burn causes less deposit buildup on valves and spark plugs causing a reflex reaction of better tuned cars and less tune up costs and parts maintenance. Thus cutting back on manufacturing of accessories and drivetrain products such as mufflers, tires, belts, etc.- all save on manufacturing planned obsolescence.

It would be better if we were to implement better methods of producing fuel at more efficient and less polluting methods though. Perhaps it will happen soon- someone will come up with a better way of producing energy with a net profit energy return and less harmful pollutants at all stages. Humans can be ingenius when forced to change. What would happen if we spent all our wasted economy on killing each other and put Mother Earth at the top of the priority list. All laws should be made around the "inalieable rights of nature" to survive first, and what people need should be a secondary consideration.

Author:  dori [ Sat Oct 21, 2006 11:32 am ]
Post subject: 

Quote:
What would happen if we spent all our wasted economy on killing each other and put Mother Earth at the top of the priority list. All laws should be made around the "inalieable rights of nature" to survive first, and what people need should be a secondary consideration.


:salute: :headbang: :hello1:

YES! :sunny:

Author:  jobot [ Sat Oct 21, 2006 12:36 pm ]
Post subject: 

Personally, I would include the treatment of all animals on the top of the list too.

Author:  nygreenguy [ Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:51 pm ]
Post subject: 

DO.g's wrote:
Perhaps there is a net gain of sorts for the environment here which isn't being included. Ethanol burns cleaner than gasoline or deisel thus, resulting in less harmful emissions as well as a cleaner burn causes less deposit buildup on valves and spark plugs causing a reflex reaction of better tuned cars and less tune up costs and parts maintenance. Thus cutting back on manufacturing of accessories and drivetrain products such as mufflers, tires, belts, etc.- all save on manufacturing planned obsolescence.


True, but remember, ethanol usually uses a LOT of coal in the distillation process which doesnt make it as clean as many would like us to think.

Author:  garagejazz [ Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:35 am ]
Post subject: 

ethanol uses a lot of heat, (coal under the bush admin), to be distilled, yes, but it kicks ass over biodiesel, e.g., on output. the idea of NEB is a long chain to be followed.

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