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 Post subject: Global warming is the Sun? .. The other side.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 1:19 pm 
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Global warming is all the talk nowadays. I've never seen or heard so much about one thing. What it really comes down to is this - Is the human race the problem? If we all died off right now, would it stop? I don't think so, as the earth or climates is/are going to go through various changes. What will it be next, wars over climate change? China and other Countries plan to make few, changes if any. Some of Europe, South / North America and etc, will foot the bill while others do nothing. Now we see the cause, reaction, solution. Pump -> Global Warming -> Wait for Reaction -> Apply solution = One World Order / New World Order.

The other side .. Money + Tax Money / Global tax .. What is real

The truth about global warming - it's the Sun that's to blame
Global warming has finally been explained: the Earth is getting hotter because the Sun is burning more brightly than at any time during the past 1,000 years, according to new research.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... wstop.html

Study says sun getting hotter
http://www.lubbockonline.com/news/092897/study.htm

Global Warming
http://www.lankanewspapers.com/news/200 ... space.html

Kofi Annan today slammed global warming skeptics as being `out of step` and `out of time,` but how will altering human activity halt climate change when the evidence clearly indicates that the sun itself and not SUV`s is heating up the entire solar system?

Sun Responsible for Global Warming
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2007 ... 5518.shtml

The French kiss Al Gore received from the mainstream media in Cannes over his shlockumentary fiction "An Inconvenient Truth" exceeded even the chronic revulsion that is symbiotic with all things Al Gore.
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/article ... 3940.shtml

Globalists Love Global Warming
Trilateral Commission, chairman of British Petroleum, CFR, Club of Rome fan hysteria to achieve world government ...
http://radio-nerd.net/?p=357

Wealth and the Environment
http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/pol ... tive/93491
Notwithstanding Mark Twain's solemn advice to, "Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. (Facts are stubborn, but statistics are more pliable.)" allow me to dangle an illuminating graph for your consideration. The variables on the graph shown in Figure 1 require a modest amount of explanation, but the concept behind them is powerful.

A Convenient Lie ...
When he was in college, atmospheric-science professor John Christy was told, "it was a certainty that by the year 2000, the world would be starving and out of energy."

That prediction has gone the way of so many others. But environmentalists continue to warn us that we face environmental disaster if we don't accept the economic disaster called the Kyoto treaty. Lawyers from the Natural Resources Defense Council (another environmental group with more lawyers than scientists) explain: "Sea levels will rise, flooding coastal areas." And Al Gore's new movie, "An Inconvenient Truth," depicts a future in which cities are submerged by rising sea levels.

http://www.cnsnews.com//ViewSpecialReports.asp?Page=\SpecialReports\archive\200412\SPE20041217a.html

Gore - Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqUHM2gf5g4&NR

The global warming scam
A chronology of climate change - During most of the last billion years the Earth did not have permanent ice sheets. Nevertheless, at times large areas of the globe were covered with vast sheets of ice.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/GB25Aa02.html

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 Post subject: Re: Global warming is the Sun? .. The other side.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 5:50 pm 
I disagree with the sun-heating-up hypothesis:

Sir-Irate wrote:
What will it be next, wars over climate change?

I would predict not wars "over" climate change but wars forced by climate change. We're already seeing, with issues such as retirement and long-term care, that people who have money live and people who don't die.

So I wouldn't be shocked to see genocide by rich people against poor people over dwindling resources in the future. In fact, we're seeing it now, with the war in Iraq. The NWO is murdering people for resources now. It's all the talk nowadays. When air and water gain parity with oil as crucial resources, is war forced by climate change really so hard to predict?

Sir-Irate wrote:
solution = One World Order / New World Order.

I don't agree with that line of reasoning either, because it's the NWO that has led us down this path in the first place. In other words, the NWO already exists; to postulate its implementation as a solution to climate change therefore doesn't follow. I don't know of any examples of alternative energy that are being implemented on an NWO scale; do you?

Quote:
Global warming has finally been explained: the Earth is getting hotter because the Sun is burning more brightly than at any time during the past 1,000 years, according to new research.

Gore's chart went back over 600,000 years. Anyone citing a 1,000 year sample of data really can't compete with that.

Furthermore, if global warming is solely the result of the sun warming up, that's like saying there's no hope, and that we just happen to be the victims of the unexplainable. That proposition is simply too pie-in-the-sky to be taken seriously.

And as far as NWO interests spinning the data, are we really to believe the global oil industry has no interest whatsoever in spinning away data that supports the human responsibility behind global warming?

In conclusion, we know from the Disclosure Project that an oil-based NWO was obsolete over fifty years ago, and that the spooks have held us in this prison for psychological reasons: they can't accept the simple prospect of living free, much less seeing others live free.

NWO isn't the answer to global warming; radical reform of civilization is. The real question isn't Gore's NWO vs. Bush's NWO. The real question is why is this a world governed by politics when human life, fundamentally, is a personal, spiritual experience? The real question is why, when we dial 1-800 for customer service, is there almost always a hapless C.H.U.D. waiting for us on the other end of the line? The debate over the sun vs. oil is merely a symptom of the real problem. The real problem is us, personally, and our utter ineffectiveness as a race. Every political question is a half-baked reflection of a deeper, self-improvement question. Every political debate is a coded discussion between people who want to be free vs. people who are terrified of being free.

-GR


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 8:15 pm 
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I have to agree with GR on this. Actually carey posted this a while ago in the propaganda section. Although 600,000 years is a long time, in the earth's history it is just a blip. What if what is happening to the sun is a million year occurence? When i think of how we as a species could affect this globe we reside on , do we forget how microbes, unseen by us cause severe failures in us- some fatal and some just make you sick. Who are we to think that we know the tipping points of the ecosystem when we can't even agree on whether Climate change is happening or not. The idea thatr we will be able to just continue breeding more people and sucking the planet dry will come to fruition when the food and water chain links are broken. Then I fear as does GR, that the powers that be will "pull it" and we will be the ones imploded this time!

If you google realclimate.org they have linked to all the information about this programme.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/actionnetwork/F?thread=3949279

Comments from the Beeb-4 forum from the U.K. - http://community.channel4.com/eve/forum ... 8940080357

From realclimate.org -
Quote:
Swindled: Carl Wunsch responds
Filed under: Climate Science Climate modelling Oceans Reporting on climate— group @ 8:34 am
The following letter from Carl Wunsch is intended to clarify his views on global warming in general, and the The Great Global Warming Swindle which misrepresented them.

Partial Response to the London Channel 4 Film "The Global Warming Swindle"
Carl Wunsch 11 March 2007

I believe that climate change is real, a major threat, and almost surely has a major human-induced component. But I have tried to stay out of the `climate wars' because all nuance tends to be lost, and the distinction between what we know firmly, as scientists, and what we suspect is happening, is so difficult to maintain in the presence of rhetorical excess. In the long run, our credibility as scientists rests on being very careful of, and protective of, our authority and expertise.
(more...)

Comments (pop-up) (161) 80 blog reactions

9 Mar 2007
Swindled!
Filed under: Climate Science Paleoclimate Sun-earth connections Reporting on climate— group @ 5:36 pm
By William and Gavin

On Thursday March 8th, the UK TV Channel 4 aired a programme titled "The Great Global Warming Swindle". We were hoping for important revelations and final proof that we have all been hornswoggled by the climate Illuminati, but it just repeated the usual specious claims we hear all the time. We feel swindled. Indeed we are not the only ones: Carl Wunsch (who was a surprise addition to the cast) was apparently misled into thinking this was going to be a balanced look at the issues (the producers have a history of doing this), but who found himself put into a very different context indeed [Update: a full letter from Wunsch appears as comment 109 on this post]

So what did they have to say for themselves?
(more...)

Comments (pop-up) (536) 192 blog reactions
Make sure you go through the comments as there are tons of leads and more information about this propaganda piece. Turns out that more than just Wunsch wasn't the only one who was told a story. This is the last story on the page so it may be archived soon.

It's lousy propaganda but it's a slick piece of disinformation or is it real science? Hard to tell. Reminds me of the way they balance out most arguments about unknowns- you know the evolution reality beside the manufactured ID concept. Same old same old to describe what Cheap-labour conservatives are all about. Where's My Money! Where's my slaves?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:15 am 
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GR & DO.g's

We could write books on this. It depends on who you are and how you see it. How much is real and how much of it is spinning, I can't really say for sure. I'm not saying there isn't lots of things wrong. Still, why would the money grubbers not want to make money off the green machine, like they do off everything else? Like a friend of mine says - "If we stopped buying weapons, we could easily feed the World." When I said NWO, I should have said Globalism as in no Countries / States. Just a one World. They've always liked to pump fear for one reason or another, and they are lots of people who make scads of money doing it. Just think about Stalin and Communism if one wants to think about fear and what it must have been like. There is a good chance that this Green thing could hustle in a one World Country / Government and etc. There is no doubt we have raped away at the World and over fished the oceans. There was a time when people thought the fish would just last forever. They may have with a hook a line, but not with the ships and gear man has invented over the years. The fishermen say the low fish stocks are because the Governments mismanaged the fishing industry. Well maybe so, but they didn't didn't worry to much about it when they loaded their boats with whatever fish they could everyday and lived the good life. Then after they made good they would buy more boats and have others run then - for a percentage. It other words, it's all about greed. The system of usury and also our greed. I used the fishing example, as that is something I know a little about. There are thousands of examples one could use. I think it is important we try and do something, but I don't think we should believe all the spin and should stay focused and ask the right questions. Why should anyone believe they are going to get anything truthful, from those of the political switch game? I think it was Mullins who talked about the parties as carpetbaggers and scallywags. One might as well call them crooks and crooks or puppets & puppets. If I can find it I'll add it below. The point is, we have to listen to both sides so we don't get used as usual. I think we can do lot of good things for the planet, but there are limits to how far we should go and who we can trust, when it comes to certain things. Lets pay for something legit, be careful and not just fill pockets. We know the sun is getting hotter and that is why we ware screen and etc. Just ask someone in Australia about the sun. I understand there will be plenty of propaganda and I should have expected the film might be propaganda. Still, maybe the film was made to be intensionally found out as propaganda. Why? So people would think they caught them trying deny global warming and jump on the green band wagon. Like - see they are trying to cover it up. Did they "not" think that people would check out this film and how it come it into being? I'm just saying you never know with these people. The other day I seen something on tv, about how our own bodies are also hurting the planet, but I didn't hear much about Depleted Uranium. Did you? I think we need to be very careful of what the TV tells us. Why would it be any different now then is has been in the past? My Dad always says he'll take something along side for awhile, before he takes it aboard.

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Mullins - Carpetbaggers and Scallywags - Video
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid= ... 1#0h36m52s

Here is another one to beef over.
http://home.austarnet.com.au/yours/Gree ... llcrap.htm

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:33 am 
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I agree. It's all about money and if they can twist the debate then alls the better- for the corporation. But the key here is people getting back in touch with the earth and feeling for once, something beyond themselves- if that's possible. This discconnect with nature has driven us to do things to this planet that have not been good for it or our health. This isn't a plea to emotion, although it seems that we should revere the thing that brings us life, as well as our revenue and sustenance, but the best we can do is argue what and who can carve it up and feast on it for the most profit.

That 's the sickness we're ignoring here and we're helping to promote it by just not caring for anything but ourselves.

Greed- what can you do- it's a disease and I'm afraid it will be the end of us.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:08 am 
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Who was it that first said, 'Follow the money'? They were right.

This is all about greed, everything is always about greed.

SI, you said the earth will continue to heat even if we do all we can to stop it. That is so true, the effects we are living with now are from what we did 40 years ago. To continue as though we are not hurting the ability for earth to support life is to compound the effect.

If we care about future generations, we have to do all we can to stop polluting the only thing we have to sustain us.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:18 am 
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I worry about the the children / young people. I agree with you both. I forget what Native Tribe it was that said this, but is is certainly true. "Only when the last tree is cut and the last fish is caught, will man realize he cannot eat money." Most farmers have been railroaded out of business for factory farming and they spray everything we eat with chemicals. They tell us fish farming is the future, while they don't bother to tell anyone they need fish to feed these fish. Meaning (wild) fish ground into pellets to feed (farmed) fish.
If you lose the natural fish, you lose the fish farms. Simple as that. I could go on and on, but no sense hashing it all this over and over. It comes down to this - Some things we can fix or make better, other things we can't. People need to really pay attention and learn what is real and what is spin. Best!

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:32 am 
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I will add to that, SI. Genetically engineered foods are not healthy, and are not labeled. You can not go into a supermarket and tell what is healthy and what is not.

I have a thread on here about GE foods possibly being responsible for killing bees. Something is, and no one has come up with a sure answer yet. But just how healthy for the environment and for us are GE foods?

Milk with growth hormone in it can possibly be harmful, especially for youngsters. It isn't labeled. America seems to be the nation of guinea pigs. We are one huge experiment.

There is something so very wrong here...

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:19 pm 
Sir-Irate wrote:
I forget what Native Tribe it was that said this, but it is certainly true.


Looks like a Cree saying:

There's a Cree saying: "Only when the last tree is cut, when the last river is dammed, and when the last fish has been caught, will we realize that we can't eat money."

Unfortunately, Google research indicates that there are numerous, slightly altered translations of this quote floating in the miasma. A really definitive source of exactness probably does exist, but I haven't located it in the past ten minutes.

Sir-Irate wrote:
GR & DO.g's

We could write books on this.


Absolutely. I recognize that a man like Al Gore doesn't exist in a vacuum; he's backed in one way or another by somebody. And I kept that thought in mind as I sat through An Inconvenient Truth in the theater. Nonetheless I found the science compelling, and came out of the film persuaded of his case.

This doesn't mean the sun isn't getting hotter on top of global warming, but the references to a hotter sun that exist typically seem to offer their thesis as opposed to global warming, which is the aspect of their stance that I disagree with, and am suspicious of . . .

I agree with your wariness overall, Sir-Irate, and appreciate your highlighting of "greed" as the real underlying cause of all our suffering today. I would underscore greed by adding psychological insecurity, as well as the many undiagnosed truths of human nature itself. I appreciate the give-and-take you've made possible on this thread, Sir-Irate. Just goes to show the difference between quality give-and-take vs. the falsity of NSA trolls.

Hope I more or less acknowledged the points you were making. I think you would immensely appreciate the Disclosure Project and the testimony of some of those insiders. Having seen what they've seen, they know the ills of usury as well as you do, if not better.

-GR


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:41 pm 
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AND thrown into this very interesting mix is that nobody, nobody, but NOBODY wants to address the very real problem of overpopulation. GASP :shock: :shock: ...that would step on quite a few religious toes, wouldn't it!

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:51 pm 
Catherine wrote:
nobody, but NOBODY wants to address the very real problem of overpopulation.


Well, that would be "wrong." :P

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Last edited by Guest on Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:32 am 
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Overpopulation probably has a thread of it's own, and deserves one. We would not have as big a problem if it weren't for forced overpopulation. Thank you Ronnie Raygun and W.

But then, overpopulation is also a part of greed.

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 Post subject: Overpopulation is also a part of greed.....
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:35 pm 
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As is psychological insecurity- like a bully who is secretly afraid of being exposed as scared. Power has an equal opposite reaction and Bush is an example of using force but looking so bad for doing it. He has been exposed- no clothes and that swagger looks almost comical now.

Quote:
There's a Cree saying: "Only when the last tree is cut, when the last river is dammed, and when the last fish has been caught, will we realize that we can't eat money." Yes, jobs are important and it's important to make businesses but not if it causes too much damage to the land and to the rivers and the animals. Animals can't drink dirty water; they will die. We need clean water too and clean food. the best food is the wild meat that we can get around here in Labrador. We should not destroy it because to do so will make us sick.
There may be more to what she's saying here. I bought a book called "Paleo Diets" which states that our new diets are bass<-ackwards to what we should be eating. Instead of domestic grain, potatoes and GM foods, we should be returning to our diets from our past. Grains were the last food we ate when famines hit, but now complex grains are the norm of our diet. Fat was a delicacy and we were drawn to it's smell after a fire, like a chip wagon gaily smoking away. If you combine "Eat Right For Your Blood Type" with that, you can find the foods that helped to develop your type blood. How many people know their blood type? In his book he states that we have more genetically in common with other blood types than with our race.

Anyway I also picked up a book written around 1970 at a used book store called- "The Population Bomb" which has a # of predictions for our future. If someone starts a thread, I'll read over it and give his predictions. And what if both sides are correct and the sun is going into a violent active phase when the earth is supposed to be cooling down to counter it's effect, and we as humans are causing a reflexive reaction to the norm? What do we know about the NORM when our data is from 600,000 year old core samples that measure some things but not all.

There is so much mystery, that we as humans should exercise caution before we act and truly seal our fate. But once again greed/insecurity drive our fight/flight imperatives and so we see people unwilling to let go of their manufactured needs and will cling to them like a god.

The sooner we realize the validity of the 17th Century Cree saying, we are doomed to sleepwalk to the end of our world.

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Completely sane world
madness the only freedom

An ability to see both sides of a question
one of the marks of a mature mind

People don't choose to be dishonest
the choice chooses them

Now I know how Kusinich feels.


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