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 Post subject: "What is atheism?"
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 7:51 am 
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What is atheism?





Question: "What is atheism?"



Answer: Atheism is the view that God does not exist. Atheism is not a new development. Psalm 14:1, written by David in around 1000 B.C., mentions atheism – “The fool says in his heart, ‘There is no God.’” Recent statistics show an increasing number of people becoming atheists, with up to 15% of people worldwide declaring themselves adherents of atheism. So, why are more and more people becoming atheists? Is atheism truly the logical position atheists claim it to be?



Why does atheism even exist? Why doesn’t God simply reveal Himself to people, proving that He exists? Surely if God would just appear everyone would believe in Him! The problem with this idea is that it is not God’s desire to just convince people that He exists. It is God’s desire for people to believe in Him by faith (2 Peter 3:9) and accept His gift of salvation (John 3:16). Yes, God could appear and demonstrate once and for all that He exists. The problem is that God clearly demonstrated His existence many times in the Old Testament (Genesis chapters 6-9; Exodus 14:21-22; 1 Kings 18:19-31). Did the people believe that God exists? Yes! Did they turn from their evil ways and obey God? No! If a person is not willing to accept God’s existence by faith, then they are definitely not ready to accept Jesus Christ as their Savior by faith (Ephesians 2:8-9). That is God’s desire – for people to become Christians, not just theists (those who believe God exists).



The Bible tells us that God’s existence must be accepted by faith. Hebrews 11:6 declares, “And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him.” The Bible reminds us that we are blessed when we believe and trust in God by faith, “Then Jesus told him, ‘Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed’” (John 20:29).



The fact that the existence of God must be accepted by faith does not mean belief in God is illogical. There are many good arguments for the existence of God. Please visit our “Does God Exist?” page. The Bible teaches that God’s existence is clearly seen in the universe (Psalm 19:1-4), in nature (Romans 1:18-22), and in our own hearts (Ecclesiastes 3:11). With all that said, again, the existence of God cannot be proven, it must be accepted by faith.



At the same time, it takes just as much faith to believe in atheism. To make the absolute statement “God does not exist!” is to make a claim of knowing absolutely everything there is to know about everything – and of having been everywhere in the universe there is to go – and having witnessed everything there is to be seen. Of course, no atheist would make these exact claims. However, that is essentially what they are claiming when they state that God does not exist. Atheists cannot prove that God does not, for example, live in the center of the sun, or beneath the clouds of Jupiter, or in some distant nebula. This cannot be proven, so it cannot be proven that God does not exist. It takes just as much faith to be an atheist as it does to be a theist.



So, we are back at square one. Atheism cannot be proven and God’s existence must be accepted by faith. I believe, strongly, that God exists. I readily admit that my belief in God’s existence is based on faith. At the same time, I strongly reject the idea that belief in God is illogical. I believe that God’s existence can be clearly seen, keenly sensed, and be proven philosophically and scientifically necessary. Again, for more information please visit our “Does God Exist?” page. “The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge. There is no speech or language where their voice is not heard. Their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world” (Psalms 19:1-4).

Recommended Resources: The Real Face of Atheism by Ravi Zacharias and I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist by Norm Geisler and Frank Turek.



For an excellent story of one man's journey from agnosticism / atheism to faith in Jesus Christ, we highly recommend "What Happened to Me?" by Randall Niles.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 12:45 pm 
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Bucky is delusional


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 8:12 pm 
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There's two main problems with this argument.


First, the majority of self-styled athiests are really agnostics. They would be willing to accept the existance of God if they saw any evidence for it. They just consider athiesm the "null hypothesis".


Second, there are in fact moral athiests by any definition of morality other than "those who believe in God" (which is, of course, not morality at all.)

The argument just doesn't work with those facts.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 7:47 pm 
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Sotek...

Faith...the magic word, the Get Out of Jail Quick card, that so many Christians use when they can't answer logical and reasonable questions about their beliefs.

Should I have "faith" that Santa Claus exists? Should I have 'faith" that Jesus exists? Should I have "faith" for anything?

I think it's very irresponsible for anyone to accept the truth of any religious statement without some means of verification.

Of course, religion's main strong point throughout history has been its complete success at duping people, and thus controlling them.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:07 pm 
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Buckshot Cut/Pasted:
Why does atheism even exist? Why doesn’t God simply reveal Himself to people, proving that He exists? Surely if God would just appear everyone would believe in Him!



GOD has revealed "himself". You are experiencing GOD as we speak. There is nothing to do. No religion or prayer needed unless you want to experience it. So simple, yet so complex.

Nobody has to believe in "him". Why would GOD need you to believe in "him"?

GOD is not a man. I say him to reference GOD. Whatever GOD may be. Christians/Catholics/Satanists must comprehend the idea that GOD is not a man with earthly feelings/emotions.


Last edited by ECSMOKELOC on Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: "What is atheism?"
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:07 pm 
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buckshot wrote:
Why does atheism even exist? Why doesn’t God simply reveal Himself to people, proving that He exists?


For one thing...we know for sure atheism exists. That is more that you can say about God....and about why he does or does not do whatever...

I am tired of this imaginary friend theory. Enough already. Prove it, or leave me alone about it. Keep it to yourself. If it makes you a better person then fine. Just stop telling everyone else how to behave so your imaginary friend will be happy.

I am better than you God fearing people, and I'll tell you why...I do what is right because it is right. Not because I will get a reward, live forever, go to heaven, get rich, find success or anything like that. I do what is right because I am a good person. Make that a good strong person.

You God people need to be saved, you need to know that you will be OK after you die. Many God based religions are based in selfishness & greed. It's all about getting something in return. Pray for health, pray for money, pray for our troops. You don't work for anything, you sit around and pretend to ask some imaginary being to fix the things that Humans broke. Lazy and greedy. Half your time is spent figuring out who you are supposed to hate and the other half of your time is spent hating them and sometimes killing them. Great little system you got there. I am sick of you people and I hate to say it but I feel quite superior to you for the simple reason that I do not need a God to make me a good person. I am a good person for the sake of being a good person. Period, end of story. You may rest now for I declare this next moment a sabath.:wink:

Here is a little suggestion...how about simply waking up each day and trying not to make anyone around you feel bad. And you can try not to harm the planet while you are at it. It is very simple. The rest pretty much does not matter. Sleep with whoever wants to sleep with you (except children of course) and leave everyone else alone. There...that's my religion. Call it Jesseism. OK...If you become a Jesseist, all I ask is that you do not hurt anyone in my name and that you don't worship me. OK? How's that.

Man...I needed to vent.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:14 pm 
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If there is a GOD. I doubt "he" would want anybody to worship him. That is such a human emotion. GOD gives you free will, then punishes you for "eternity" if you use it or don't worship him. Religion makes it seem as if GOD has some kind of ego problem.
FOLLOW THIS HOLY BOOK OR BURN IN HELL WITH THE DEVIL FOREVER. I only gave you free will to tempt you! Religion makes GOD sound like "the devil" rather than a "good guy".


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:24 pm 
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lol..jesse...good post!!


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 12:57 am 
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Do you suppose buckshot and Lucas will read your post, Jesse?

Jeez...if I was a person who'd been bashing atheism after reading that...I'd just slink back to my dusty little cave and stay there, while I contemplated becoming an atheist, er, a Jessiest! :lol:

Leave it to Jesse to go right to the root center...kudo's, Jesse. Rev. Moon wouldn't like you! :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:57 am 
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Catherine wrote:
Do you suppose buckshot and Lucas will read your post, Jesse?

Jeez...if I was a person who'd been bashing atheism after reading that...I'd just slink back to my dusty little cave and stay there, while I contemplated becoming an atheist, er, a Jessiest! :lol:

Leave it to Jesse to go right to the root center...kudo's, Jesse. Rev. Moon wouldn't like you! :wink:

Catherine


I hope they read it. It would be nice to hear what they think.

They should read today's stories and my comments on my news page under "Of Interests". More wonderful news from the family values bunch!

Quote:
Prosecutor: Ky. pastor spent cash on Porsche - The Rev. Larry Davis purchased a Porsche with some of the more than $700,000 he stole from the First Baptist Church of Cold Spring - sometimes brazenly withdrawing the money at horse racetrack ATMs, a federal prosecutor says.
TVNL Comment: Keep telling us how religious people are better than everyone else, especially Christians.

Abuse Cost for Catholic Dioceses Tops $1B - The cost to the U.S. Roman Catholic Church of sexual predators in the priesthood has climbed past $1 billion, according to tallies by American bishops and an Associated Press review of known settlements.
TVNL Comment: Wanna play, well you gotta pay! And those God worshipers who spend a great deal of time tellin you what you can and can not do, sure do love to play!

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 10:36 pm 
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jesse wrote:
Quote:
For one thing...we know for sure atheism exists. That is more that you can say about God....and about why he does or does not do whatever...


how ingorant is that? we know for sure atheism exist...........we know every religion in the world exist belivers or non-belivers. so what does this say about your statement? it shows nothing .so no thats not more than i can say about God.so your statement is just that whatever.

jesse wrote:


Quote:
I am tired of this imaginary friend theory. Enough already. Prove it, or leave me alone about it. Keep it to yourself. If it makes you a better person then fine. Just stop telling everyone else how to behave so your imaginary friend will be happy.


first of all you are the one who put a section on religion on your forum.
second and i quote what you have posted and believe in"1. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or
authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
2. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and
tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded. "
so what does this say about you ? maybe that you are one sided . and you do not want divirsty.you only want non-believers.
third you support john conyers who is trying to protect islam.you are a really confussed person jesse.so as far as what you call my imaginary friend and just leaving you alone , how about you just quit reading and whining about .
jesse wrote:
Quote:
I am better than you God fearing people,


boy don't we have a swole up head , a person who spreads lies and theory conspiracys is better than God fearing people, yea right .

jesse wrote:
Quote:
You God people need to be saved, you need to know that you will be OK after you die. Many God based religions are based in selfishness & greed. It's all about getting something in return. Pray for health, pray for money, pray for our troops.


whats selfish and greedy about it jesse? because you don't believe in it we should condem it? why are you such a biggot about it?
over 85% of america believes in God and being saved and going to heaven , and just because you don't 85% of america is just greedy and selfish? you are a very closed minded person.and all you are spreading is hate so how does this make you such a good person?



Quote:
You don't work for anything, you sit around and pretend to ask some imaginary being to fix the things that Humans broke. Lazy and greedy.


oh yes jesse only you and 15% of america work. how selfish and greedy is that?
as far as lazy and greedy ? who exactly are you talking about ? christians?
well i work , and as far as i know you already posted that you quit your job.

jesse wrote:
Quote:
Lazy and greedy. Half your time is spent figuring out who you are supposed to hate and the other half of your time is spent hating them and sometimes killing them.


who are you talking about jesse ? thats not how i spend my time.again you are just spreading more lies and hate.

jesse wrote:
Quote:
I am sick of you people and I hate to say it but I feel quite superior to you for the simple reason that I do not need a God to make me a good person.


ditto jesse i'm sick of you people also. as far as you being superior , i seriously doubt that, why don't you get a job and quit calling everybody else lazy. sounds more like you need help to me. you must of had an awful childhood.


jesse wrote:
Quote:
Here is a little suggestion...how about simply waking up each day and trying not to make anyone around you feel bad. And you can try not to harm the planet while you are at it. It is very simple. The rest pretty much does not matter. Sleep with whoever wants to sleep with you (except children of course) and leave everyone else alone. There...that's my religion. Call it Jesseism. OK...If you become a Jesseist, all I ask is that you do not hurt anyone in my name and that you don't worship me. OK? How's that.


as far as your suggestion all we need to do is pray. as far as worshiping you, NO that will never happen i have a God .
you sure sound a lot like hitler maybe the skinheads and the kkk will take up your religion. they spread faccisim that sounds like your religion.

jesse wrote:
Quote:
Man...I needed to vent.

try praying it works better.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 11:04 pm 
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Way to pick the response you can flame, Bucky.

Care to respond to my points?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 12:33 am 
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Care to respond to my points?


That should be interesting, Sotek, but be warned...it will take you awhile to try to wade through that mess, once he decides whether he's going to actually verbalize a response or cut and paste from a Rush Limbough-like site or something from Faux News. (See his link in the Activism forum where he responded to my post about John Conyers.)

However, this is one of the wildest rants I've read from bucky yet. Because it's Saturday night, perhaps bucky is having a bit of "forbidden" fun. :roll: :wink:

What will be even more interesting is to read Jesse's response to bucky's "points." :thumbup:

Catherine

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 10:47 pm 
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third you support john conyers who is trying to protect islam.

well, well, buckwheat is on a mission....already out to discredit conyers..LOL

is this the new fundamentalist's new political whining lie?

and, other than calling jesse names, when are you actually going to defend your position?


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