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 Post subject: for the (religious) record....
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 10:45 pm 
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i don't think anyone here has anything against those who have a religion to believe in, afterall, it's (still) a free country. as for me, my choice was to be a non-believer.

furthermore, i don't think any atheist in this forum dislike anyone who does believe in some "god" or some organization to lean on.

where the problem arises is when a person of faith comes into a forum such as this, reads the anti-god statements then proceeds to post challenging statements. normally, i could enjoy a discussion about is there a god or not, but usually those discussions have no end. i won't be converted, nor would i suspect the other person would be deconverted, so an endless conversation is meaningless.

what i dislike is some self appointed preacher thinking people like me are a challenge to themselves or their faith and proceed to post accordingly. this insults me in many ways. if you want to discuss religious philosphy or events...not a problem. but the minute one starts preaching the line is now crossed and it's no longer a discussion.

apparently some people have taken offense to the fact that i have openly critisized those who believe a some form of "god"..which, admittedly, i have....but only when i felt the need.

religion and politics are the two most volatile topics people can discuss and more than likely ends with one or both getting heated. for that reason, people posting in the "religion" section should be aware that the replies they get may or may not be to their liking, therefore, if they feel they can't handle criticism, perhaps they should not post in that section. i may not have the same respect for YOUR god as you do....accept that.

however, i will always defend one's right to believe in what ever religion they choose, even if you prefer to worship satan...no problem at all...i will still defend your right to do so. but i will not defend your self given right to slam your religion down my throat or into my life.

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Last edited by mga on Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 11:47 pm 
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I completely agree, mga! I am not a believer, yet I fully respect those who are devoted Christians, or devoted Muslims, or devoted Hindus, or devoted Satinists...I don't care how one worships his or her deity, as long as he or she doesn't attempt to shove their beliefs down my throat and make me their self-appointed project for religious conversion. It isn't going to happen, so there's no use to even try. I don't dislike someone because he or she is a believer in any religion, nor do I LIKE someone because they're not a believer. The CHARACTER of the person is what I am much more interested in when it comes to cultivating a friendship.

One can have a good character without having a religion, and vice versa.

I LOVE to discuss the religions of the world...I'm always seeking to gain new knowledge about them, and to try to understand the mindsets of those who actually follow them. I will never understand nor condone the suppression of women and children, which so many religions advocate, nor can I ever understand people who are supposedly "religious" but who can kill, maim, and torture both people and animals and then be up in the amen corner in their church the next day.

Look at George Bush and his cronies as shining examples of this aspect of religion. I wouldn't want to have any part of anything to which George Bush professed to also be a part of when it comes to religion or anything else.

Catherine

http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/intro.html

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:27 pm 
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Unfortunately, it appears to me that certain global religions have been taken over by a small faction of radicals within them...

I am a believer, but not the same one as you... (that is the universal you, not a specific you), and what or who I believe in is none of your concern (again that is the universal you, not a specific you)...

My beef is with those that claim to be of a certain religion but don't follow the teachings of it's prophets... but then demand that you do...

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:12 pm 
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Quote:
it appears to me that certain global religions have been taken over by a small faction of radicals within them...



I agree, Stripey...it's all about power and money. It's hard to differentiate between religion and politics nowadays, and vice versa.

Catherine

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:35 pm 
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Gets one to wondering if "one" will win out over the others? Or will they all come together as one in the end? Should be interesting down the road, if nothing else.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 2:37 am 
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But Sir Irate... that road is happening now... we are on it...

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 Post subject: My beef against hypocracy
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 12:27 pm 
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Don't forget, it's all about peace and love as well. It irks me when these christians and most devotees of faith based concepts hide behind the love aspect that Jesus and others espoused and were supposed to represent. The heart was considered the brains location and was the center of emotional feeling. Actually that sensation is just adrenalin and it is based in fear that makes our heart beat faster. If jesus was so into love, why was he so against the romans and the scribes and pharisees that we get snippets of his rebellious nature. The mustard seed analogy is about the insignificance of Rome and the money changers overturned tables shows the disdain and adrenalin laced emotion, that a person torn between anger and hatred leads to contempt of authority.

Since that time the words of his followers have been to preach love and kill in the name of god. If god gave us permission to kill then the commandment has been ignored throughout history. Love indeed. Love to exercise the will of the gods. Who gave permission to our leaders to exercise their rights to execute those that do the lawbreaking in society and then claim to be guided by the rules of judeo christian laws, as to place them as a standard that we as societies common people have to adhere to, while the agents of gods justice are given permission by his representatives here on earth to exercise his will over their fellow man. All in the name of LOVE.

Yeah right, love of anger, hate, privilege, preference, ignorance, money, power, peace and love for us only. Thank god we have his permission to perform these in pursuit of our happiness.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 1:08 pm 
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ironically, the day i posted that two jehova witnesses came knocking at the door. one, an older woman, and the other a very attractive young lady. when i opened the door i saw the bible in their hands and i smiled at them. she began her thing about "in the area", and a "need for guidance from god"....so, i politley told her i was an atheist. she looked surprise then she smiled at me as if she didn't believe me. she then asked what i thought of world events....lol

i told her that it was bush's fault and it's just mankind playing their games and i doubt if there was any intervention by a "higher being" going on (or lack of believing in one).

she said "ok, have a nice day" and they left.

i thought later on that the devil must be tempting me...LOL :D

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 2:23 pm 
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but mga... if there's no god then there's no devil either...

:twisted:

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 2:45 pm 
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:lol: :lol:

Oh, mga...you got into a situation similar to mine..One Saturday not long ago, I was outside working in my yard when a car drove up in the driveway, and two ladies got out. I stopped what I was doing, and greeted them politely. They introduced themselves as Witnesses and asked what my religion was. I said, "I don't have one...I'm an atheist."

They were taken aback for a moment, but one of them recovered more quickly than the other one did and asked me the same question that you were asked, mga!

We got into quite a discussion about Bush, the Neocons, the Christian fundies, and whether or not we should be in Iraq. Once they realized I wasn't about to talk religion with them, they were very interesting, intelligent women and they ended their visit with an invitation for me to come to their women's round table literary discussions sometime. They agreed with me on all aspects...including that Bush was a deceitful man and was using a cloak of religious piety to disguise the monster he actually is.

Of course I haven't gone to their discussions...been too busy.... but it was nice of them to ask me. If I went, I'd bet my next pension check they'd do their best to show me the folly of my non-believing ways! :P

Catherine

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 Post subject: The devils been busy in your backyard.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 2:56 pm 
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Stripey. This argument can be resolved by the fact that god is in a dilemma with the devil. S/He created all things, so if s/he were to destroy one of his/her most important creations, that being the source of evil, then there goes his/her status with his/her heavenly followers. That s/he creates only to destroy would mean that s/he must admit to a major blunder. This in effect gives immunity to the devil to do his/her dirtiest, while the god of creation has to admit s/he is powerless to oppose him/her. Thus the devil has proven to be stronger than god by conundrum.

If on the other hand, there is no god, no fear of a devil- just a lot of greedy corrupt bad people doing a lot of selfish things.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 4:19 pm 
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I'll side with and bet on God/Goddess/AllThatIs over evil any day...

and it seems to me that He/She/It is really upset with humans these days... but enough to send us all back to our maker? Him/Her/They?

Only time will tell...

catherine? I think you should go to one of their discussions... give them a chance when you have the time...

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 6:25 pm 
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TheStripey1 wrote:
but mga... if there's no god then there's no devil either...

:twisted:


i know...i was being sarcastic...in my twisted way.

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 Post subject: Good and evil are one.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:39 pm 
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Stripey 1- I think you've been watching too many episodes where good conquers evil, like cowboys and Indians, Romans and christians(I cheer for the lions- too many christians, not enough lions) star wars; the propaganda whereby evil intent is vanquished by the symbolism of good. The good intentions are an afterthought; like the guy who wrote Amazing Grace, who was a slave trader and had his epiphany as an afterthought. The conscience thing . There has seldom been an incident in history that wasn't glorified as god given justification, as the second world war was a war of who had the real god on their side; both sides claiming divine grace from the same god. These are books and stories to misdirect true intentions, as when Archie Bunker stated that the Mexicans were glad to give us Texas after we whooped their asses.

As Zinn wrote, Stories Hollywood Never Tells, so goes our beliefs. How quickly we forget the pictures of ABU GHRAIB, as an evil side to America, although they more closely resemble the lynchings of blacks in the past. Strange fruit indeed. There were incidents of buggery, castration, black hoods over heads, electricity to testacles, all to demote these people as less than human. Seems homosexuality is OK for Americans to perform and encourage when it humiliates.

Don't tell me good conquers evil when the constitution with all its supposed good intentions is just a tool of the elite to subjugate the slave masses into believing in a greater good. All intentions are indicators pointing to a greater evil underlying a surface current that belies its true intent and it is a masqeurade for the evil that lurks at its oppressive nature. This is why there is so many amendments. As time progressed, clarity was needed.

Homers Iliad is another example. The romantic story depicting the conquest of Troy as a conflict of love between humans and the battles between the gods, is nothing more than a fabrication. The truth was it was a conflict between the Greeks and the Hittites over resources, wealth and power. Copper, gold and position in the world. The greeks won and so their story is the dominant belief.

Evil always comes out of good intentions and its greed and quest for power always wins the day. Any other interpretation is just a fools paradise. The bible is a sterling example of the evil that lurks waiting to spring its trap. A bunch of STICK WAVERS didn't fool the Indians, and killing a priest does nothing more than illustrating their lack of power over good intentions.

It would be nice if it were true, but it takes the concerted efforts of a lot of good people to conquer and hold power over evil and corruption, and time has a way of conquering the good intentions. Read the secret team and be amazed at the CIA and its power. It shapes the world. It's a constant juxtaposition.


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 Post subject: War or just .. Imagine
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:41 pm 
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Imagine

Imagine there's no heaven,
It's easy if you try,
No hell below us,
Above us only sky,
Imagine all the people
living for today...

(To many people can't
Only if you don't believe
Only if you don't believe
Only if you don't believe
Can't do that .. I'm to much of a realist
Most people are happy to play deaf & dumb,
which is pretty much the same thing.)


Imagine there's no countries,
It isnt hard to do,
Nothing to kill or die for,
No religion too,
Imagine all the people
living life in peace...

(NWO? .. No USA, No Canada, No etc.
No it isn't, it's called Multiculturalism at work
Since when do the people get to vote on war?
Yeah right .. Like we have control over that
Nice thought, but forget it
Yeah right .. They got money to make)


Imagine no possesions,
I wonder if you can,
No need for greed or hunger,
A brotherhood of man,
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

( John Q. Public likes his toys, forget that
J.Q.P .. no way
Forget that, war means money
yeah right
Can't .. no way
The only thing they'll share is bombs)


You may say I'm a dreamer,
but Im not the only one,
I hope some day you'll join us,
And the world will live as one.

(Ahuh
We know your not
Time will tell
Only in a dream)

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