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Author:  CrimsonEagle [ Mon Apr 10, 2006 1:05 am ]

Dear President Bush,

When you were running for office you stated that Jesus Christ was your favorite philosopher. You have made a point of proclaiming your Christian faith. You have put time and energy in an attempt to link Church mission with state social security. You have, particularly since 9/11, continually preached God Bless America on almost every public occasion. As a Pastor and fellow United Methodist I need to ask you: "Do you know what the values and vision of Jesus are?"

I ask the question because I am baffled and confused by your behavior. You claim Christ but act like Caesar. There is blood all over your hands with the promise of even more blood to come. You sit atop the nations like the Biblical Whore of Babylon openly fornicating with the military men of might, their corporate sponsors, their nuclear madness, and their insatiable hunger for global armament. Is this how you learned Christ?

You claim the benevolence of your Administration toward the rest of the world. But the treaties you make continue to be laced with a tightened rope around the neck of the poor. Is this how you learned to "forgive our debtors"? Is it really Christ-like to insist on cuts in life-supporting infrastructure while increasing military budgets and allowing the plunder of nations to accrue to a very small financial elite? Have you not been taught that Jesus was crucified by these same Principalities and Powers?

You practice a patriotic righteousness that visualizes never ending war against enemies of great evil. You bombed Afghanistan with both guns and butter to show the difference. But do you really think the few crumbs of bread airlifted to Afghanistan shield the reality that you have no intention of assisting in building a sustainable society there? Is this how Christ taught you to avenge the wrongs done unto you?

I am troubled by your spirit George. You claim you are of the Sustainer of Life but you practice the terror of Death. You are spreading the war. Afghanistan is only the beginning. Military presence crops up worldwide. You bait us with Iraq and shield what you are doing in Columbia. You lay the groundwork for disrupting Venezuela, Brazil and Argentina. You allow the dogs of capitalism to sink their teeth into the battered body of a raped Central America. The buck stops on your desk George: is this what Jesus would do?

The Spirit of Death rises and nations tremble. We the people of the United States tremble. We discover how truly powerless we have become. Our military budget grows to obscene levels bankrupting the social infrastructure from which our security and freedom rise. We see basic medical care costs increase even as more and more Americans find themselves without health care. We see environmental treaties subverted, ignored and disappeared even as Mother Earth signals increasing distress. Labor rights are made secondary to the rights of Corporations resulting in wage reductions and growing financial insecurity. Homelessness exposes itself through tented cities. Education becomes the victim of budget knife cuts. A few benefit but the groan of the masses is growing. Whose side are you on George?

Perhaps you think that God has chosen you for this hour. Perhaps God has. So again I ask you, "is this how you learned Christ?" If God has chosen you for this hour then, in Christ's name, serve the values and vision of Jesus: feed the hungry, clothe the naked, release the prisoners, cancel the debt, forgive your enemies, practice Jubilee. Then, through you, this nation and all nations will be blessed.

But beware George: the road of the sword will bring division and much blood. Those who take it up will be devoured by it. Many people, in the name of God, have taken up the sword. And many have come to ruin. Thinking themselves capable of naming evil they have become the very evil they name.

Seek Christ first,

Rev. Rich Lang

Trinity United Methodist Church

Author:  justinmoon22 [ Mon Apr 10, 2006 3:16 am ]
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I doubt it got read. Im sure someone will have to read it to him. He would have been lost at philosopher. It will be read in a different way to him, just like the New Testament. Wrote by a human and changed by a human. The "pass it on " effect. "Yes sir it says he's very proud of you and you're doing a fantastic job at puting Christ back into America."

Author:  mga [ Mon Apr 10, 2006 7:27 am ]
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a little late now to rethink one's support of george bush. if church's or religious groups are questioning bush they should have done that from the git-go.

this only proves how gullible and dumb religious groups are that they will follow any asshole into hell as long as that asshole says "praise the lord".

Author:  Alkemi [ Mon Apr 10, 2006 9:20 am ]
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What in this letter makes you think Rev. Lang ever supported the Bush Administration? Unless you know something of him outside this sermon, you cannot passibly make that assumption, unless of course you simply hate him for his faith.

The way you fricking bigots lump all people of faith into one catagory is disgusting. The lot of you should be ashamed to call yourselves anything better than the Nazi Neo-Cons you pretend to hate so badly.

Narrow minded bigots with no room in their world for diversity of thoughts otr beliefs, utterly un-American in every way. You are no differnt from the fricking Bushiters, you just sing a different song of hate. You don't want a better world, you just want to rule the world in your own image. How does that make you different from the Imperialist scum that is now using American blood to further their agenda? Where would you spill their blood?

To imagine that those of faith, and please feel free to include me, are clueless, or gullable is no different from Bush ranting about the Islam terror that is ready to strike at the heart of democracy. Can't you see that? Is your hate so fogged your life that you can't feel it burning inside you?

Where were you when Bush invaded Afghanastan? Were you protesting? Or were you one of those oh-so-patriotic bloodthirsty assholes saying *go blow the fuck out of them*? I can guess. Because those of us who stood against the war back then stood alone, protected by our faith in a society where freedom of speech was already in short supply.

Talk about people who are a day late and a dollar short, I think you should check out the mirror, you will find what you see no better than what you so readily point your finger at.

How dare you self rightous bastards point a finger at this man, who, as far as you know, may werll be right, and may well be witnessing heartfelt beliefs he has long held. How dare you assume upon his integrity with your hypocracy, hate, and lack of compassion.

You owe this poor man an apology, at the very least, not that you have the mote of honor it would require to give it. SO, at least have the decency to be ashamed of yourself for not even remotely walking your talk!

And CE, thanks for a great post. It is good to know, and to see, that some Christians actually do try to follow the teachings of Jesus.

Author:  mga [ Mon Apr 10, 2006 11:32 am ]
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fuck him...he's a reverend....isn't that reason enough to hate him?

yea...i'd apologize alright...with my foot up his ass.

him supposedly being against bush doesn't warrant me liking him. i have a problem with anyone in clergy who thinks they have the right to get involved with politics. it's because of people like him we are presently stuck with the asshole we have.

Author:  DO.g's [ Mon Apr 10, 2006 12:41 pm ]
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Once again alky's repressed anger issues come to the fore. Please check in with someone who can help you with your mixed up life alky. Why are you frustrated this time? It was just something CE found and posted. Your usual passive aggressive stance is going ballistic. Problems developing in your life? What, no dog to try and kick around?

Sorry, I've been busy, but I'll make sure I check up on you now and then.

I don't think people here think there better than- just a little wiser than.

# 1, get off the booze and hedonism kick you're on.

If you need some more help or perhaps an intervention, just ask. The dogtor is in.

Author:  mga [ Mon Apr 10, 2006 2:22 pm ]
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i rate reverends and priests and ministers down there with clowns: i've hated clowns all my life and these "people of god" are no different than a clown performing in a circus or for a group of people.

maybe someday in the future religion will be banned for the sake of humanity.

Author:  CrimsonEagle [ Mon Apr 10, 2006 7:46 pm ]
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Ummmm, wow. I really did print this because I believe that there are people of religion who truly practice what they preach. This letter was written a couple of years ago I believe so I would say what happened was this guy watched what was going on until he could not take it anymore and wrote the letter.

I myself cannot find fault with someone who is truly good in spirit, (if I can use that word), be they of any religion, or non religion. In saying that though, this does not mean that I advocate the forcing of ones belief upon another. The only thing that should matter is that we take a path that allows us to be at peace with ourselves, and the rest of humanity. Any person, or groups of people who act in opposition to this are an enemy to the peace of humanity. These are the people who are in control, these people who preach peace, love, forgiveness, and kindness yet act in a way that is in exact opposition to what they pass off as their beliefs. They are wading chest deep in blood, greed, lust, and deception. These are the people that are our enemy's.

I am against organized religion. I have sound reasons for that. But, I also believe that there are those who are within the organizations who are very good people. I cannot in good conscience judge a person to be guilty just because they are Christian, or just because they are Muslim. I can only judge them guilty when they act in opposition to the basic laws of humanity. Yes, there are laws of humanity, I'm sure that everyone on this board realizes this. Every time we preach hate and intolerance based solely on a persons race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, or social status, we in fact make ourselves less in the process. We see this all over the world, and this is what is making the world less, much less than it could be.

I posted this for a dual purpose. The first was to show buckshot what a true Christian is.

The second purpose to me was more important. I remember a while back Sadie said something along the lines that people with views like buckshot make her doubt her faith. (I believe that these were the words she used). I personally do not want Sadie to doubt her faith. I wanted her to know that there are still people in Christianity who preach the true message of Christ. It should not matter to anyone else whether they believe Christ lived or not. Sadie believes, and if it gives her hope, and makes her happy, and makes her a better person to ALL, then to me, that is all that matters. From her writings, I believe her to be a good person, and I would hate to see her doubt her faith in God because of the actions of others. Trust me, if she appeared to me to be the type to try and force her beliefs on me I would not care. I could be wrong, but I do believe that in everything she has written, it has been about tolerance and peace. The only times that I have seen here get upset was with Shane and his ignorance about the state of the school system, and buckshot with his misguided, hate based ignorance with his views in God.

Yes, I do believe in God. No, they are not in line with what Christians believe. No, when I do talk about it, it is not in an attempt for force my views upon anyone, any religion, any belief. It is each individuals own responsibility to believe or to not. That is their choice. The views that I do preach are about the basic goodness of humanity that we really need to nurture if we do have any chance to survive. I honestly do not care if a person comes to these views through God, through the spirits, through reflection, or through any other means. All that matters is that a person comes to these views. This is all that matters.

Who am I? I am nobody damnit. I am one in billions. For some strange reason I have this ridiculous desire for all of these billions to live in peace and harmony with one another. I know that its an impossibility, and it is an impossibility because we just cant get along. Everyone wants everyone else to believe in exactly what they believe and if they don't then that person is automatically in the wrong and must be forced to accept a belief that they cannot accept. Unfortunately, the things that should be forced upon people cannot be forced on them. These things would be love, kindness, compassion, and a desire for peace for all of mankind. These things have to come from within.

I don't know. Seems I'm ranting again. I'm tired. Tired of the bullshit. Tired of everything. Whoever thinks that humans are intelligent beings are blind. We have got to be the stupidest species to ever exist in this universe.

Author:  mga [ Mon Apr 10, 2006 9:06 pm ]
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several months ago the local newspaper ran an editorial from a priest who wrote a long letter supporting the war and how americans should align themselves behind the president because this war was for a good cause, blah blah blah....

now, he also was a christian priest of one of the many local churches that are readily available. so, which "man of god" was right? i thought it rather strange that any priest would openly support killing, but he gave his 'religious" reasons why we had to be in this war.

so, i guess it comes down to personal convictions. if i was a war supporter i could have easily supported one preist, or, if i'm against the war i could support another.

obviously, even priests are divided or confused on the issue...therefore, if god's onw messengers don't have a clue...why should i follow any of them? just because one priest might say things that i favor politically (such as the OP) it doesn't mean he's right or wrong, and it certainly doesn't make him any more of a hero than someone else.

i detest bush and the war, but i choose the people i follow selectively and wearing the collar doesn't mean an instant "in" with me.

i was by no means attacking your post.

Author:  sadie53 [ Mon Apr 10, 2006 10:15 pm ]
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Thank you Crimson. I am very touched. I do try to keep my faith and at times it is very hard. If I shove my beliefs down others throats then I am no better than Bucky. I do not belong to an "organized religion". I do not go to church so there are those who would call me a hypocrite.

I was raised in the Church of God and was always told not to judge others when I would question the actions of those who professed to be a Christian. I left the church as an adult. I cannot belong to a group who wants to tell me how to live when they don't follow their own advice.

My father is a devout Christian and a lover of Bush. To me this is a contradiction. I swear I am trying VERY hard not to judge Bush. I do not HATE him because I hate no one, but I do hate what he stands for and what he does.

Yes, there are good people out there who are Christians and they live it everyday eventhough it becomes increasingly difficult. I don't care if that minister supported Bush in the beginning and had a change of heart or if he never supported Bush and wanted to call him (Bush) on his actions. It doesn't matter. It was an excellent letter and I give him credit for having the courage to write the letter. I thank you for the excellent post.

I am disgusted that organizwd religion has stooped to an all time low. If we knew all the money that was funneled into churches, and then given back in political support we would all be an atheist. No pastor is going to tell me how to vote or that I can not be a Christian if I vote anything other than Republican. MANY churches did just that in this last election.

I was at a baby shower this past Sunday and my niece (14 years old) said, "I do not support gays, it is against my religion." She goes to a private school and they are taught this in school. This is a religious school teaching hate and intolerance. And then others who want to privatize schools say that public schools brainwash! Ahhhh I do get a bit upset. I did get a little unChristian-like with Shane at times.

I don't know if I hold on to my religion because I was raised that way or if it is the experiences I have had with truely religious people who set excellent examples of what a Christian is. I do know there is a higher power because I have had experiences where someone or something was there with me in a time of need.

I have experienced the power of prayer first hand when my dad and brother were in a horrible accident and we were told they would both be vegetables if they lived. They both lived and neither is a vegetable. I do believe they were healed by God. My dad had been in a coma for several weeks and I was sitting at his bedside when he sat up and started talking to me like nothing had happened. I was deep in prayer at the time. Some would say it was a coincidence but I don't think so. You had to be there to understand.

Now it is me who is tired and ranting. Again I thank you.


Author:  CrimsonEagle [ Mon Apr 10, 2006 11:20 pm ]
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therefore, if god's onw messengers don't have a clue...why should i follow any of them?

Naw man. I never said you should follow any of them. I don't myself.

If you could find me an article of the psychopathic priest who wrote a letter in support of the war, I would be very appreciative. This is just a guess before the fact, but I would guess that much of his religious reasons for supporting the war was from the old book.(testament). The man you speak of is NOT a Christian regardless of what he or his followers think. If he at any time made the statement that Christ would have wanted this deception and killing because this is Gods will, it would have shown him to be the liar he is. He is one of the traitors to humanity which I speak of.

i detest bush and the war, but i choose the people i follow selectively and wearing the collar doesn't mean an instant "in" with me.

I know that this is a hypothetical, but suppose that the author of this letter did not wear a collar? Would that have made a difference to you? There are many very bad people in this world, and I'm with you, I pick the people I follow very selectively. First off, they have to earn my trust, secondly I will give them a chance to earn my respect. Even then, I do not follow them so much as walk beside them. Both of these things are accomplished through their words, and their actions. I have to look past the outward appearances. I also have to look past what they wear, and what their religious beliefs are, and instead listen to what their words are. Do they speak anything that rings false?
This man was preaching a message of peace. That is all that should matter. Its not what he wears, its what he says and does. I would never advocate following ANYONE just because they wore a collar. You should make people prove themselves to you. If we don't, then we are only setting ourselves up for disaster.

i was by no means attacking your post.

I apologize brother man. It was not the thought that you were attacking my post that sent me off on a tiff. It was the fact that immediately things turned ugly. Yes, it did start with your post, though I never thought that you were attacking me. Then it went to Alks post, then Dog's, then you. This is what set me off.

Let me ask all of you something. How can we expect society to change, when we ourselves cannot seem to change?

I don't know. I need to go take a shower and hit the hay. I just don't know how to explain what I am trying to get across. Maybe eventually I will have the answers. Till then I will just have to continue smashing my head against this indestructible wall.

Peace out.

Author:  justinmoon22 [ Tue Apr 11, 2006 3:17 am ]
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Hey Sadie. Why didnt you ask your niece if that was her opinion or her parents.

Author:  sadie53 [ Tue Apr 11, 2006 7:34 pm ]
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It is what she in taught in Bible class at school. She goes to a private Catholic school. (you know, brainwashing only goes on in public schools)

Her family are the ones who took voucher money and went to Disney World. Money taken right out of the public school system (mostly poor) and given to the rich. Sort of a "kick-back" so to speak.

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