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 Post subject: Who are we?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:01 am 
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We are a very wealthy nation. Even our poor compared with the poor of other countries have much. Most every family today has at least one car per parent, and I would say a great many kids also have cars. What family do you know that doesn't have cable TV and several TV's in their home? What about internet and computers? Are these things neccessary? How many big houses do you see with boats and campers sitting in the yards? How big of a house does a family really need? Even our "poor" have car"s", TV"s", computer"s" etc. So is part of why other countries just simply hate us due to the fact that we Americans have SO much? Do we take it for granted? Do we act as though it is our right to have these things? I think back to even my mother growing up. She lived on a rural dairy farm with no indoor plumbing or even electricity. They had plow horses for years before they got a tractor. Ok, now I'm not advocating we go back to those times, but I'm just wondering if we Americans haven't come to exspect that we "deserve" so much? Do we? Do we work harder than my mother's family did while she was growing up? I highly doubt it! I'd say as a nation in general we are gluttens (and I am guilty of this too!) We are spoiled. I honestly think we take most of what we have for granted. Do I want to give up what I have? Nope....I bet no-one else here does either! I bet the rest of you, like me, even dream winning the lottery! It's the American way. Yep, other countries hate us for more than just our politics. (just my thoughts)


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:55 am 
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ummm....we americans don't really enjoy a standard of living that much higher than other nations...except if you want to compare us to a third world nation. you have to compare america to other wealthy nations first, and then you might be surprised to see that we have alot in common.

people from other countries come here because one thing america does offer is the ability to become individually wealthy...both legally and illegally. this is what attracts many as well as our educational system (college).

but, i still don't think having material things is why people "hate" america...i believe it's our foriegn policies that do the most damage, and the most recent with iraq was the proverbial "icing on the cake". many countries spoke out against our invasion and we witnessed demonstrations world wide against it. we became a nation of aggression, not compassion.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 8:05 am 
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Greed is a big factor in what shapes american culture and bling is a worldwide attention getter, nina. We are a dominant country and so we export more than our ideas, as it is our culture of wealth and decadence that drives these other countries. Their music, clothing, ideals are being engrammed by internal representations of what it is to be not merely successful but free to pursue the idea of dreams. We play with the subconscious needs of our physiology when we entertain ideas of fame, wealth and fortune - image, if you will. This is the ultimate in pursuit of personal power and individuality. Your example of the lottery ticket is very valid as an example of this. Another is seeing starving people in say Africa and seeing a "Raiders" t-shirt on someone. Our cultural influence is powerful and seen as symbolic of success and/or corruption. The socio- economic spirtuality of it is so contrary to the community base of developing countries and is seen as a legitimate threat to the people and their culture and beliefs.

Add to that what mga said, as we export military discipline and we have a duality that divides the world into those that see american culture as decadent and dangerous and those that wish for respite from their worries. It comes down to our personal interpretation of bliss. When you know no different, a good day may be some fresh food. But when it is shown to you that others can control and manipulate your/their lives, well suddenly your ideas of what is real and relevant become skewed and altered. It is a threat, promise and a bribe all at the same time. People sell out their souls and country for it.

Welcome to the world of possibilities and choices, nina. Knowledge and learning is a constant chase.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 6:38 am 
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I'm just wondering how many people here actually know 'poor people'. The description above really doesn't fit.

And George Bush really doesn't want to give up what he has either. Neither do any of his obscenely wealthy friends.

I don't think 'poor people' are after anyone else's 'prized possessions'. I think they just want a fair shake at earning their own. It may amaze people just how much the deck is stacked against many people.

As for other nations, I agree it is our foreign policies that have turned people against this nation. Blowback I believe it is called. We have been interfering in the governments of other nations for many years now. Stable governments that did much for their citizens have been replaced with rightwing dictators in far too many places. We 'own' the dictators, we 'own' the people and their surroundings.

That doesn't set well.

And now our government is turning on us.....

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 2:05 pm 
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Good points Dori.

I work and help first nations communities here. The conditions they live under are as serious as the third world. Some of them have just recently got power, water, phones. These people live under the oppression of the effects of colonization throughout their whole lives. As a minority, they are outsiders in white schools, condemned immediately as drunk and useless, and basically told to adjust to a white way of thinking, or get out of school. Occasinally some of them finish high school and look for jobs. After getting nowhere in the white community some have given up and accept whatever low paying menial tasks they can perform. Some, who have the finances and drive, go on to university and college, but the culture shock is extreme, The ones who fail have been known to engage in such rituals as hanging themselves from the high school football poles as a jesture of the futility of assimilation into white society.

The only way for them to survive is to stay in their communities and develop their own infrastructure and job programs, as if exclusion from opportunity is a conscious choice they make. They must stay within their cultural parameters either by choice or being forced by the consensus of white autonomy. It is the example of the treatment, treaties and policies that shaped America that that also shaped and control the world. Example - the Indian Act of 1887 in Canada was the model for apartheid in South Africa; Hitler admired the methods used by Americans to overpower and subjigate the savages as they conquered the land. The IMF, World Bank and trade agreements, sweatshops so you can have your Nikes etc.; all part of the oppressive realities that all these countries must endure, while their elite luxuriate and keep the masses toiling and ignorant, Paid lackeys of the white Bourgeoisie.

I'm afraid you can kick a dog only so many times before it turns on you, so be aware. The good times are coming to a close. The oppressed have had enough of their sacrifice for your freedoms and comfort. The proverbial day of reckoning is at hand. This is why we must change our ways to accomodate them more. Who knows. Something like this Avian flu thing may start something. When you've nothing to live for, you aren't afraid of dying.

Same time tested rituals of destruction are used in Iraq. Control of food, water, Land infrastructure etc. and you can break the wills of the people. Nothing new here.

I know what desperation of the oppressed is, unfortunately.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 5:03 am 
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Quote:
When you've nothing to live for, you aren't afraid of dying.


This is a factor that is overlooked by too many people. We have the hopelessly greedy in that very top financial range, the self congratulating comfortable known as the middle class, the working poor who are too tired and preoccupied with keeping alive to do anything but work endlessly, and the desperate who have nothing, including hope.

A nation which pins it's admiration on class one and ignores all the rest is a nation headed for big, big trouble. In this case, it means trouble for the entire world because the nation that has gone bad is also the nation that has the ability to literally destroy life on this planet.

Quote:
Add to that what mga said, as we export military discipline and we have a duality that divides the world into those that see american culture as decadent and dangerous and those that wish for respite from their worries. It comes down to our personal interpretation of bliss. When you know no different, a good day may be some fresh food. But when it is shown to you that others can control and manipulate your/their lives, well suddenly your ideas of what is real and relevant become skewed and altered. It is a threat, promise and a bribe all at the same time. People sell out their souls and country for it.


During the '30s nearly everyone was poor. I am sure there were those with privilages and who abused them, but most people didn't know of it. We all fit into the same general structure.

We went from the struggling years of the '30s, to the war years in the '40s. Rationing. Again, people were not aware of the abuses going on and felt as though we were all in the same boat.

But there were our own 'concentration camps' going on when we decided the Japanese in America were not to be trusted. There were native peoples living their own kind of 'concentration' just as so many do today. There were African Americans who had still never gotten their 40 acres and a plow. There were the disabled who were just written off as useless rather than giving them a chance to make a life for themselves.

The poor, the truly poor, are not on our nations radar and have not been for a very long time. We hear of 'lazy Indians', and 'welfare queens that drive their Cadillac to get their welfare checks', and all the other excuses comfortable people use to not have to face the cruelty we inflict on our fellow humans.

It is said Bush, and people like him, will run our government until the comfortable are touched by the practices that have already ruined so many lives. The comfortable would rather feel superior to those less fortunate than to identify those people as our brothers and sisters.

We cannot take a person's heritage away along with any chance for that person to 'make it' in a hostile world and expect the forgotten to remain silent forever. We are digging our own grave.

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