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 Post subject: We are in Iraq to Stay
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:45 pm 
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As I have stated. These fucking morons in office have put us in a quagmire which we will never be able to escape. No matter which action we take, Americains will be the ones to be held accountable. I hate them all.

CrimsonEagle



We are in Iraq to Stay
November 21st, 2005



America’s political elites have a secret they don’t intend to share with the voters.

Democrats claim to want our military out of Iraq more or less immediately, though only three of them have the guts to vote that way. President Bush promises we will stay until the job is done and no longer. Both camps know full well that nobody holding elective office in Washington D.C. today will live to see the end of our military presence in Iraq. It is quite likely that nobody now numbered among the living will still be drawing breath when the last American soldiers come home from Iraq, even taking into account advances in medical technology.

A victorious nation either establishes a permanent troop presence on the battlefield or it loses the fruits of victory. A win or a draw followed by retreat will always degenerate into a defeat. If there is such a thing as a law of history, this is it. Consider just the few examples from our own short history.

Two hundred and twenty years after the Revolutionary War we still have troops along the east coast of North America. A hundred and sixty years after the Mexican-American War we still have troops in the Southwest. A hundred and forty years after the Civil War we still have troops in the states of the Confederacy. Sixty years after World War II we still have troops in Germany and Japan. Fifty Years after the Korean War we still have troops guarding Seoul.

We left Cuba after occupations in 1906 and 1912 (retaining only the naval base at Guantanamo Bay). Fidel Castro is our reward. We left Europe after World War I and we got World War II. We left Vietnam after we had bought a stalemate with 50,000 lives and the result was our most humiliating defeat.

When you leave, you lose. Defeat is the only exit strategy and in this instance defeat would be catastrophic. The stakes could not be higher.

Everybody with a firing synapse recognizes that the status quo ante bellum in the Middle East was unacceptable. The status quo gave us 9/11. If we fail to change it dramatically, the status quo is likely to cost us our power, our wealth and millions of American lives. Terrorism is nothing less than an Islamic challenge to America’s world leadership. Either we rise to the challenge and crush the challengers or the Islamofascists will realize their dream of replacing America at the apex of the world pecking order and, at a minimum, our way of life will die.

To date, the invasion of Iraq has been our only real response to the Islamic challenge. The Democrat argument that Iraq is a distraction from the real war in Afghanistan is comically inverted. The war in Afghanistan was a game of whack-the-mole far from the enemy’s center of gravity. Iraq is a major oil-producing nation. It is on the Arabian Peninsula, which is the source of both the wealth and the religious ideology that makes the enemy so dangerous. Doing in Iraq what we did in Germany and Japan would be a major step toward the defeat of Islamofascism.

That is our goal in Iraq and we can only achieve it by staying indefinitely, just as we have in Germany and Japan. For the foreseeable future, the American military will have to be the dominant force in Iraq to make civil war unprofitable. No faction has anything to gain from a fight as long as our troops are there to bolster the other factions and crush any revolt. The Sunni “insurgency” has been busily proving that point for some time. As long as American troops are in Iraq, democracy is the best available deal for all concerned. If they left, the centripetal forces in Iraqi society would quickly tear apart the government we are building. The people in charge of that government, whoever they are, will beg us to stay because their physical survival will depend on us.

And stay we will. We will secure an ally precisely where we need one most. We will also maintain a powerful military presence in a strategically vital location. In the event that we need to kill people and break things in either Syria or Iran, the bases we are establishing in Iraq will be extremely useful, if not essential. Even if our Arab and Persian War never escapes beyond the borders of Iraq (which seems absurdly unlikely), our military presence within those borders will put pressure on our surviving enemies just as our army in Germany once pressured the Soviet Union.

Even if the Democrats ride an anti-war wave back into power, our troops will remain in Iraq. This is not because the Democrats are incapable of doing anything as monumentally stupid as abandoning Iraq. The Democrat Party was, after all, largely responsible for our abandonment of Vietnam. No American government will abandon Iraq because doing so would be to take ownership of the next terrorist attack on our homeland.

If America ever left Iraq the terrorists would crow about their great victory. They would announce that we are weakened and vulnerable and call for renewed attacks against us. An attack would come, and the administration that retreated on the verge of victory could not escape the blame for it. Very few politicians in either party are reckless enough to take the kind of political risk that withdrawing from Iraq would entail. All the talk of timetables is empty political posturing.

The whole public debate about Iraq is a frivolous sham. It proceeds on the assumption that we have options which are, in fact, long since foreclosed. We are at war; it is a time to be serious. The foolish whining about withdrawal is profoundly unserious.

Power begets responsibility. We are the world’s dominant power and our position comes at a price. Somebody will always be itching to knock us off our perch as long as we occupy it. We will have to deal with each challenge as it arises or suffer the consequences of a hard fall. It’s tough at the top. On the other hand, if you aren’t the lead dog, the view never changes.

Grow up America. You have to take the bitter with the sweet. A permanent American presence in Iraq may be a bitter pill, but it is one we will just have to swallow.

J. Peter Mulhern is a frequent contributor. He is a lawyer in the Washington, DC area.




J. Peter Mulhern


http://americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5007


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:36 pm 
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GOOOOOOOOOD MORNING VIETNAM.

The ruling elite just do not have a fucking clue do they. The longer they are in Iraq the the less of a chance to "win the war on terrorism". Occuption breeds opposition. The Nazi's learned that lesson. That is why Trueman & DDE didn't occupy Japan after WWII.


POLITICIANS ARE THE STUPIDIST inbred jackasses ever created/evolved (depending on your religious belief).


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 5:49 am 
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I disagree with that genius Mulhern. I think we will be out in six months to a year at the most. At the worst Congress will be committed at that point because the people will be as planed by the Neo Cons. Here is a post from another place descibes my simple theory in a nut shell. Of course I live in a nut shell.

QUOTE(Venus @ Nov 21 2005, 09:55 AM)
You two feed off of each others insanity.

QUOTE
I do not think that the dissolution of Nations can be stopped



Do you honestly believe the citizens of the United States or (UGH) Canada would allow their identities to be merged? I think NOT. I would rather commit suicide than mingle among the Canadians....no offense BB.....just the cold filthy truth....and I imagine they would feel the same.

I know this is out of the ordinary....but here is THE REAL REPORT. How about giving it a little read when you have time between one anti-American website and the next. You might learn something wink.gif

REPORT TO LEADERS


http://truthseekers.invisionzone.com/in ... c=1291&hl=

Please feel free to point out in this report the part about the 3 nations merging.............I'll be damned if i can find any mention of such a ridiculous idea.

I feel the need for a shower all of a sudden ...must be all the wading threw that bullexcrement I just read pinch.gif
*



I hope you enjoyed your shower sweetheart heart.gif Your source is my source in North American Nation

http://truthseekers.invisionzone.com/in ... c=1291&hl=

the 4 pdf's listed in the first post. That is the official sanitized government site. It does not tell the whole story it is merely a shell in a shell game. Under which shell is the whole story? wink.gif
All three nations shall soon be joined into one economic consolidated border free bloc. It is the only way we can keep pace with emerging China and India. We must unify our resources and populations. Before China buys them all. China already has a huge foot in Canadian energy and is becoming economically involved in Mexico and South America. Hell they own the Panama Canal. w00t.gif
If North America is to remain a separate entity as opposed to a annexation of China via monetary ownership we must consolidate our economies and become a Continental Bloc. Life will change and it will be rapid. ohmy.gif Canada and Alaska have the natural resources for exploitation. Mexico has the population ripe for exploitation the workers. The U.S. is the hub of the wheel. There will no longer be borders. The northern border shall be protected by a joint Canadian American NORAD.
The southern border shall be protected and sealed at Mexico's narrow southern tip. The coasts shall be protected by the worlds largest and essentially only aircraft carrier fleet.
We are gearing up for a isolationist period of time. We have sowed seeds of discontent through out the entire planet. Chaos and wars and revolutions have been initiated across the planet and will continue for at least half a century. We, The North American Nation shall withdraw from the rest of the World and allow them to destroy each other grin.gif It is all part of the Plan. sorcerer.gif
There will be draw backs in the beginning the standard of living will fall in the former U.S. as an influx of cheap labor comes from the south wages will go down. Soon consumer prices will fall for products like cars, refrigerators, washers, they have a name for siht like that. Mexican Mayans and Eskimos will reunite after centuries of being apart and all will be well under heaven innocent.gif



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--------------------
Inside of me there are two dogs. One of the dogs is mean
and evil. The other dog is good. The mean dog fights the good dog all the time. Which dog wins, "The one I feed the most."

http://truthseekers.invisionzone.com/in ... #entry6188

_________________
Look out kid, They keep it all hid.”
Bob Dylan “Subterranean Homesick Blues”


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 2:40 pm 
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Only time will tell my friend. At the very least, I would be willing to say that we are walking on the edge of a knife and one more misstep and we will fall off. Actually, this administration is running blindly across this knifes edge. Whether we will be able to stop them before they leap off the point or fall off the side is yet to be seen.

Dont forget, it is the real ruler's who want this. I dont think they will give up so easily now that we are there. I do hope that you are right though.

CrimsonEagle

PS I couldnt open up the first 2 links, if you can get them, could you relink?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:05 pm 
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Couple of points Tut. The bird flu would be a great promoter of this free trade zone AND the closed border. It is the perfect opportunity for Mexico, Canada and US to close off the borders. As for Canada opposing this idea, that is a laugh. Canadians are all bought and sold by their god money, and the government dictates our position to the people. Most Canadians are just glorified Americans and are not willing to give up their pie eating. As for your idea of a return to the feudal age of servitude, we are already there, we just don't want to admit it. We depend on them for our security and freedom is a joke reminder of our dream state. We are addicted to our love of fear and privilege and we will ride this beast until the end. Think of our history and see our future. Death is at our command and woe be the one who objects to it. We are the gods who possess the Knowledge of the tree. :twisted:

The knowledge is "There is no morality and there is only one natural right. The right of the superior to rule over the inferior. Religion is merely the glue that holds society together. You want a crowd that you can manipulate like putty. An external threat fills that, and it can be manufactured.

So in the states we have the Repiglicans and the Spendocrats. Canada has the Libelous, the Consumatives and the No Down Payments. Mexico is the land of the Fox-El Pardilla dos gringos, Traciono dos indigina, el sur pais.

Our only hope is to beat them at their own game by not voting them back in power(The Elite govt. structure) and putting those in power who will enact fair change with freedom for the world as a goal. Somehow we must vote in ANYBODY that is against the structure as it stands, or our servitude is a given, RFID and all.

We must strive for a view that doesn't uphold peace as leading to decadence or perpetual war- not perpetual peace- Like our leaders, who back a belligerant foreign policy. These people have no use for liberalism or democracy, but they are conquering the world in the name of liberalism and democracy. It is necessary for the elites to deceive their citizens, to do what they do with idealistic rhetoric. As we the people are merely surface thinkers we follow along like mannequins who want their strings pulled.

If you cut the strings, you change the rules.

Of course, once you win such a move, they will merely change the rules. Same old same old. It is too late. We are caught in the web and there is no escaping the inevitable. They own the game and will call us on it if we try to change it, especially if only a few are willing to change for the sake of the world, and not the sake of their privilege and comfort zone.

Secular society in the elite view is the worst possible thing. It leads to individualism, liberalism and relativism- the traits that might encourage dissent- which could lead to a dangerous weakening of societies ability to cope with external threats

South America has indicated they no longer trust us, after our intrusions in their politics for the last 500 years, so they are to be left outside the wall as punishment. We are the gods of the world who think we can shut out all the evils and continue our raucous partying. Let the games begin, but we make the rules. Who can be part of this, who will be left out. We call the shots.

Do you want to be left out and suffer? Not many would vote for real change when given the option, as indicated already by some here. We are tied by our needs and wishes, and can do very little to change, when elections are our only voice or ability to change. It is too limiting. There is only a revolution that would work, and for that you need a majority of the people to enact it. Counting on that though, I'm afraid we are reaching the end of hope as a weapon of progress, as we are committed to perpetual war. Unless we change our fixed internal monologue pedagoic philosophy, there is no escape. Family values are a fixation we cannot give up. Our country is too important. Sunday football and beer are our apple pie we feast on. Let the wars happen elsewhere- we can live in comfort and luxury while the world does its thing, oblivoius to the reality we can shut out.

I keep being reminded of the Poe classic " The Masque of the Red Death".
http://www.poedecoder.com/essays/masque/
Quote:
Poe wrote two Gothic tales that were published in Graham's. "Life in Death" is about a painter and his sick wife, whom strongly resembles Virginia(his wife). The painter refuses to see that his bride is dying as he paints her portrait. "The Mask of the Red Death" is about Prince Prosperto who tries to save his diseased country from this figure called "The Red Death". In Red Death Poe wrote that "the Red Death held illimitable dominion over all" which shows of an attitude that is very rare in Poe's work, because death is not normally a terminal thing for him. Both stories shows of a denial and a struggle to fight death, just as Poe refused to realize how serious Virginia's condition was.

The relationship between the Red Death and time is a key to understanding the symbolic meaning of the story. The seven rooms are laid out from east to west, reminding us of the course of the sun which measures our earthly time. These rooms are lighted from without, and it is only in the seventh room where the color of the windows does not correspond with the color of the room, but instead is "a deep blood color" through which light illuminates the westernmost chamber of black, with an ebony clock on its western wall. In creating this room, Poe links the colors red and black with death and time.
"Scarlet stains upon the body and especially upon the face of the victim" indicate the presence of the Red Death. Blood, the very substance of life, becomes the mark of death as it bursts through the pores. Death, then, is not an outside antagonist, to be feared and walled out as Prince Prospero attempts to do; but instead it is a part of each of us. Its presence is felt in our imaginations as we become aware of the control that time has over our lives. We hear the echoes of the "ebony clocks" that we carry within. Prince Prospero tries to escape death by walling it out, and by so doing, creates a prison out of his sanctuary. However, the Prince learns that no one can escape death. Death holds "illimitable dominion over all."


Theme
No one escapes death. Human happiness (as represented by Prince Prospero) seeks to wall out the threat of death; however, the Biblical reference (I Thessalonians 5:2-3) at the end of the story reminds us that death comes "like a thief in the night," and even those who seek "peace and safety...shall not escape."




It is to our doom we head, for there is no escape for what we've done. We are traitors to ourselves. With the reality we would have to face, we can never grow up, or it will be our end.


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