I Do Not Believe

TUTUTKAMEN · **Posted:** Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:03 am

New Orleans will not be rebuilt as a City. The damage is to extensive due to neglect by this Administration. Eighty percent of the Big Easy is under water and it is still coming in. Evacuations to Houston are being made. Other states are being encouraged to accept students and teachers. The entire City is being evacuated by 30,000 Troops. The levies have been neglected by the Federal Government [Long Live The Confederacy] and this is the cause of the destruction planned or not, it is real. New Orleans will be given back to the Sea known as the Gulf.
There are too many bodies and ruined homes to tear down and rebuild. It must be drained and torched to prevent futher disaster. The levies will continue to deteriorate due to lack of maintainance and the flood will take over. This was avoidable this was a preventable accident. Our culture will suffer and blame shall be affixed. We are entering a tenuous time that should have been avoided.

TUT

mga · **Posted:** Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:18 pm

many homes, made with wood frames, are being water logged, so there is no rebuilding of them...they will have to be torn down. the waters carried not only raw human waste and bacteria, but chemicals and oils which also get saturated in the wood. this means that plumbing would have to be replaced as well. at today's lumber costs and construction costs the price would eliminate many of those who had already lived there.

even if someone wanted to rebuild and had the money, they would have to think twice about living in an area that is below sea level. many businesses also have to be demolished as well and one has to rethink about opening another in that area.

the amount of water laying in that area will take over a month to drain and even then the ground would be saturated. i find it hard to believe that people would consider rebuilding.

another area of concern is that as the ocean levels rise, it puts new orleans at additional risks and they can't build a wall high enough to keep out rising oceans. this is from global warming and any area below sea level is at risk.

beatneck · **Posted:** Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:26 pm

TUTUTKAMEN wrote:

The damage is to extensive due to neglect by this Administration.

If you believe this, you are completely ignorant.

Quote:

This was avoidable this was a preventable accident.
TUT

Only if you think we could raise New Orleans about 15 feet could it have been avoidable.

Catherine · **Posted:** Fri Sep 02, 2005 12:10 pm

beatneck..are you another Zell Miller? Your latest posts have been showing that you've become quite the little turncoat...are you now a paid shill for the Bushies? Also, who are you to call others "ignorant?"

Read the forum rules...and Jesse's post about conduct...

Quote:

CHRONOLOGY....Here's a timeline that outlines the fate of both FEMA and flood control projects in New Orleans under the Bush administration. Read it and weep:

January 2001: Bush appoints Joe Allbaugh, a crony from Texas, as head of FEMA. Allbaugh has no previous experience in disaster management.

April 2001: Budget Director Mitch Daniels announces the Bush administration's goal of privatizing much of FEMA's work. In May, Allbaugh confirms that FEMA will be downsized: "Many are concerned that federal disaster assistance may have evolved into both an oversized entitlement program...." he said. "Expectations of when the federal government should be involved and the degree of involvement may have ballooned beyond what is an appropriate level."

2001: FEMA designates a major hurricane hitting New Orleans as one of the three "likeliest, most catastrophic disasters facing this country."

December 2002: After less than two years at FEMA, Allbaugh announces he is leaving to start up a consulting firm that advises companies seeking to do business in Iraq. He is succeeded by his deputy, Michael Brown, who, like Allbaugh, has no previous experience in disaster management.

March 2003: FEMA is downgraded from a cabinet level position and folded into the Department of Homeland Security. Its mission is refocused on fighting acts of terrorism.

2003: Under its new organization chart within DHS, FEMA's preparation and planning functions are reassigned to a new Office of Preparedness and Response. FEMA will henceforth focus only on response and recovery.

Summer 2004: FEMA denies Louisiana's pre-disaster mitigation funding requests. Says Jefferson Parish flood zone manager Tom Rodrigue: "You would think we would get maximum consideration....This is what the grant program called for. We were more than qualified for it."

June 2004: The Army Corps of Engineers budget for levee construction in New Orleans is slashed. Jefferson Parish emergency management chiefs Walter Maestri comments: "It appears that the money has been moved in the president's budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that's the price we pay."

June 2005: Funding for the New Orleans district of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers is cut by a record $71.2 million. One of the hardest-hit areas is the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project, which was created after the May 1995 flood to improve drainage in Jefferson, Orleans and St. Tammany parishes.

August 2005: While New Orleans is undergoing a slow motion catastrophe, Bush mugs for the cameras, cuts a cake for John McCain, plays the guitar for Mark Wills, delivers an address about V-J day, and continues with his vacation. When he finally gets around to acknowledging the scope of the unfolding disaster, he delivers only a photo op on Air Force One and a flat, defensive, laundry list speech in the Rose Garden.

So: A crony with no relevant experience was installed as head of FEMA. Mitigation budgets for New Orleans were slashed even though it was known to be one of the top three risks in the country. FEMA was deliberately downsized as part of the Bush administration's conservative agenda to reduce the role of government. After DHS was created, FEMA's preparation and planning functions were taken away.

Actions have consequences. No one could predict that a hurricane the size of Katrina would hit this year, but the slow federal response when it did happen was no accident. It was the result of four years of deliberate Republican policy and budget choices that favor ideology and partisan loyalty at the expense of operational competence. It's the Bush administration in a nutshell.

Link: http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archiv ... 007023.php

Catherine

beatneck · **Posted:** Fri Sep 02, 2005 12:40 pm

I never was a liberal Catherine. Im not a "bushie" either, if that is what you are calling a conservative.

The word ignorant means unaware or uninformed. It is not a derogatory word. I apologize if anyone took it that way.

New Orleans is like it would be under any administration prior to today. Lets hope we all learn from this horrible experience. Even the "bushies".

The damage is extensive because a lot of people didnt heed warnings. All kinds of people. Not just the Bush administration.

Mother nature always wins. She always will.

Catherine · **Posted:** Fri Sep 02, 2005 1:04 pm

Bottom line is the monies that had been appropriated for the SELA were diverted by the Bush administration to the Iraq War and to enable Bush's tax cuts for the rich. The war in Iraq is founded on lies, deceptions, was and is completely unnecessary, and continues to make us the most hated country in the world. Perhaps the devastation wrought by this hurricane couldn't have been avoided, but if SELA had been funded appropriately, the damage would have been minimized compared to what has actually happened. AND the Bush government is at a loss as to what to do...they still haven't gotten a handle on it, and that's mainly because the Bush FEMA director is an incompetent, a pal of Bush's who has no experience in disaster management. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/9/2/34622/68348

No matter how you spin it, the Bush administration is responsible for the outcome of this visit by Katrina.

Catherine

beatneck · **Posted:** Fri Sep 02, 2005 1:18 pm

Well I guess we just dont agree then. It happens alot on these internet forums.

Castro doesnt hate us. He hates our government.

Quote:

"The whole world should feel that this tragedy is its own," National Assembly speaker Ricardo Alarcon said.

Heavy rainfall lashed western Cuba and downed power lines when Katrina swung across Florida and into the Gulf of Mexico, but the island escaped the devastation seen in the United States.

"The news pained and saddened Cubans. In their name, we wish to express our profound solidarity with the people of the United States, state and local authorities and the victims of this catastrophe," Alarcon added.

Castro, dressed in his trademark green military fatigues, stood with his head down for the minute of silence.

Catherine · **Posted:** Fri Sep 02, 2005 4:24 pm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02261.html

THIS is the issue, beatneck... not whether Castro, who is no friend of the United States and hasn't been one since before 1960... is willing to bow his head during a moment of silence for the victims of this disaster. You'll have to do better than that. :roll:

Catherine

Seamus · **Posted:** Fri Sep 02, 2005 4:29 pm

beatneck wrote:

I never was a liberal Catherine.

Nah Catherine... He seems to be more of a Ayn Rand "Atlas Farted" type Libertarian. Perhaps he's not a "bushie" as he claims, but that's pretty much what the far right wing is all about. Social Darwinism. If beatneck is the Social Darwinist that his comments have alluded to, he's pretty much on the same side that Bush is on.

We can look forward to folks like beatneck telling us that victims of the NOLA catastrophe had a choice and they made the wrong choice; this sort of pretzel logic will certainly later apply to San Francisco, LA and a host of other cities that made the wrong choices in their founding.

Remember Catherine... There is no public, no common good, no social contract. We're all rugged individualists now. Every man for himself and screw women, minorities, children, the sick and the disadvantaged etc etc etc...

Them Negroes deserved what they got since they didn't rebuild them levees theyselves, isn't that right beatneck?

They didn't leave when they were told, isn't that right beatneck?

They have no one to blame but themselves, isn't that right beatneck?

You'd better get back to your Libertarian Utopian Bubble beatneck over at RR. If you stick around here, you may eventually learn something and have a hard time dealing with the cognitive dissonance.

beatneck · **Posted:** Fri Sep 02, 2005 5:45 pm

Thanks for the psycho analysis seamus, but I wasnt talkin to ya.

I learn everyday. Today I learned that you are a person with nothing better to do with your time than to pscho anayize people over the internet that youve never met, had a conversation with, or know one real life thing about.

Congratulations on that, and I wish you luck with similar ventures in the future.

Seamus · **Posted:** Fri Sep 02, 2005 6:19 pm

Gee... I must have hit a nerve.

beatneck wrote:

Thanks for the psycho analysis seamus, but I wasnt talkin to ya.

Too bad... I'm talking to you.

If you can't take the heat get the hell out of kitchen. If you're that thin-skinned and you don't want people commenting on your posts I suggest you not post.

beatneck wrote:

I learn everyday. Today I learned that you are a person with nothing better to do with your time than to pscho anayize people over the internet that youve never met, had a conversation with, or know one real life thing about.

Hmmm... pot meet kettle. Odd that you'd say that. Now you're psychoanalyzing me. I'm honored.

beatneck wrote:

Congratulations on that, and I wish you luck with similar ventures in the future.

You've left enough of your psyche in your posts for one to make reasoned judgments as to where you stand on issues.

If you think that my assessment is off the mark I suggest that you prove me wrong. So far all I've seen from you in this thread is Social Darwinist talking points and something about how sorry Castro is about the disaster.

I can see where your Social Darwinist TP is going. I'm curious though, what the hell is that Castro thing about? Are those who criticize Bushco allies of Fidel? Or are we just evil hive mind collectivist statists?

TheStripey1 · **Posted:** Fri Sep 02, 2005 9:56 pm

Seamus wrote:

Gee... I must have hit a nerve.

beatneck wrote:

Thanks for the psycho analysis seamus, but I wasnt talkin to ya.

Too bad... I'm talking to you.

If you can't take the heat get the hell out of kitchen. If you're that thin-skinned and you don't want people commenting on your posts I suggest you not post.

beatneck wrote:

I learn everyday. Today I learned that you are a person with nothing better to do with your time than to pscho anayize people over the internet that youve never met, had a conversation with, or know one real life thing about.

Hmmm... pot meet kettle. Odd that you'd say that. Now you're psychoanalyzing me. I'm honored.

beatneck wrote:

Congratulations on that, and I wish you luck with similar ventures in the future.

You've left enough of your psyche in your posts for one to make reasoned judgments as to where you stand on issues.

If you think that my assessment is off the mark I suggest that you prove me wrong. So far all I've seen from you in this thread is Social Darwinist talking points and something about how sorry Castro is about the disaster.

I can see where your Social Darwinist TP is going. I'm curious though, what the hell is that Castro thing about? Are those who criticize Bushco allies of Fidel? Or are we just evil hive mind collectivist statists?

Maybe BeatsIt thinks this is just another of his mastabatory exercises... Is that it BN? Do you think this public forum is for your posts only?

Get a grip, dude... NOT ON THAT!!! :twisted:

So tell me... are you a real patriot or one like the rest of the republican apologists that drop by here for their daily whuppin'?

You know... have you served IN the military? Or are you just another LIP SERVICE PATRIOT?

cuz I despise chickenhawks...

:evil:

!

TheStripey1 · **Posted:** Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:03 pm

TUTUTKAMEN wrote:

New Orleans will not be rebuilt as a City. The damage is to extensive due to neglect by this Administration. Eighty percent of the Big Easy is under water and it is still coming in. Evacuations to Houston are being made. Other states are being encouraged to accept students and teachers. The entire City is being evacuated by 30,000 Troops. The levies have been neglected by the Federal Government [Long Live The Confederacy] and this is the cause of the destruction planned or not, it is real. New Orleans will be given back to the Sea known as the Gulf.
There are too many bodies and ruined homes to tear down and rebuild. It must be drained and torched to prevent futher disaster. The levies will continue to deteriorate due to lack of maintainance and the flood will take over. This was avoidable this was a preventable accident. Our culture will suffer and blame shall be affixed. We are entering a tenuous time that should have been avoided.

TUT

Pretty much all correct there TUT... but there are far more dire consequences than just our cultural legacy...

The Army Corps of Engineers' busget has been slashed to fund the War in Iraq... A war I will add that was supposed to pay for itself according to the Bush whackjobs in charge of it's planning... a war based on lies...

so yeah... lay the majority of the blame at bush's feet... but, some must also be laid ast the feet of all the previous administrations for NOT planning properly or making it a priority...

kind of late now...

obtw... welcome to the board, TUT...

TheStripey1 · **Posted:** Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:07 pm

Seamus wrote:

beatneck wrote:

I never was a liberal Catherine.

Nah Catherine... He seems to be more of a Ayn Rand "Atlas Farted" type Libertarian. Perhaps he's not a "bushie" as he claims, but that's pretty much what the far right wing is all about. Social Darwinism. If beatneck is the Social Darwinist that his comments have alluded to, he's pretty much on the same side that Bush is on.

We can look forward to folks like beatneck telling us that victims of the NOLA catastrophe had a choice and they made the wrong choice; this sort of pretzel logic will certainly later apply to San Francisco, LA and a host of other cities that made the wrong choices in their founding.

Remember Catherine... There is no public, no common good, no social contract. We're all rugged individualists now. Every man for himself and screw women, minorities, children, the sick and the disadvantaged etc etc etc...

Them Negroes deserved what they got since they didn't rebuild them levees theyselves, isn't that right beatneck?

They didn't leave when they were told, isn't that right beatneck?

They have no one to blame but themselves, isn't that right beatneck?

You'd better get back to your Libertarian Utopian Bubble beatneck over at RR. If you stick around here, you may eventually learn something and have a hard time dealing with the cognitive dissonance.

Hey Seamus... is this ANOTHER in a long line of uhhhhhhh... well, you knows... :twisted:

do they have a cesspool somewhere where they clone all these guys?

Same tired schpiels, same tired rhettoric...

sharpens claws...

:twisted:

TUTUTKAMEN · **Posted:** Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:11 pm

IGNORANT reporting in :lol:

You girls are cute, do you two always play' tit for tat' together? :roll:

Never mind that was derogatory as well as humiliating.

As ignorant as I am so is this administration arrogant, rude, and deceitful. We are in a war due to deceit and the arrogance of a corruptly appointed public official. "Bring Em On" is this intelligent cowboy's way of viewing a War from the comfort of the Oval Office or Crawford. Hell he played golf yesterday. And sounded as if he had no idea what to say today on live TV.
His whole administration of neocons from Rove to Wolfowitz and Condi as well have a severe holier than thou arrogance. Even FEMA, hell they recommend at their web site you donate to the Red Cross first and Pat Robertson's 700 Club second. :roll:

It's a PNAC thing.
It resonates arrogance right down to his 'cheerleaders'

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Billions for offense, but not one cent for our own people: that's the slogan of this administration, and of the War Party generally. George W. Bush has vowed to "save" New Orleans, but his fan club over at National Review exhibits the true feelings of Beltway power-brokers for those peons stuck in the Big Easy, as when Jonah Goldberg opined:

"ATTN: SUPERDOME RESIDENTS [Jonah Goldberg] – I think it's time to face facts. That place is going to be a Mad Max/thunderdome Waterworld/Lord of the Flies horror show within the next few hours. My advice is to prepare yourself now. Hoard weapons, grow gills and learn to communicate with serpents. While you're working on that, find the biggest guy you can and when he's not expecting it beat him senseless. Gather young fighters around you and tell the womenfolk you will feed and protect any female who agrees to participate without question in your plans to repopulate the earth with a race of gilled-supermen. It's never too soon to be prepared."

http://antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=7137

How about the stranded are old, single parents, war vets, children, crippled, and let's say it is not that they chose to stay but that they were left behind to die. And now they are.
We can roll over Iraqi Cities and kill 100,000's and can't take away a couple of pop guns from kids in a ghetto left to die. That is our governments excuse for allowing Americans to suffer a horrid death trapped in their own excretion. How proud are you to be a member of this machine?

TUT THE IGNORANT

I Do Not Believe

Who is online