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 Post subject: Woodward Knew Two Years Ago
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 2:32 am 
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Woodward Knew Two Years Ago
By Matt Margolis at 11:34 AM
Yesterday, Bob Woodward testified in the CIA leak case that he knew about "Valerie Plame and her position at the [CIA] nearly a month before her identity was disclosed."

In a more than two-hour deposition, Woodward told Special Counsel Patrick J. Fitzgerald that the official casually told him in mid-June 2003 that Plame worked as a CIA analyst on weapons of mass destruction, and that he did not believe the information to be classified or sensitive, according to a statement Woodward released yesterday.
[...]
Woodward's testimony appears to change key elements in the chronology Fitzgerald laid out in his investigation and announced when indicting Libby three weeks ago. It would make the unnamed official -- not Libby -- the first government employee to disclose Plame's CIA employment to a reporter. It would also make Woodward, who has been publicly critical of the investigation, the first reporter known to have learned about Plame from a government source.
And that source ain't Rove either...

Mark Corallo, a spokesman for Rove, said that Rove is not the unnamed official who told Woodward about Plame and that he did not discuss Plame with Woodward.
William Jeffress Jr., one of Libby's lawyers, said yesterday that Woodward's testimony undermines Fitzgerald's public claims about his client and raises questions about what else the prosecutor may not know. Libby has said he learned Plame's identity from NBC's Tim Russert.

"If what Woodward says is so, will Mr. Fitzgerald now say he was wrong to say on TV that Scooter Libby was the first official to give this information to a reporter?" Jeffress said last night. "The second question I would have is: Why did Mr. Fitzgerald indict Mr. Libby before fully investigating what other reporters knew about Wilson's wife?"


So, Plame was not considered to be covert... Woodward never discussed Plame with Rove or Libby... A two-year investigation and there's nothing to show for it...

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 Post subject: Re: Woodward Knew Two Years Ago
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 3:32 pm 
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buckshot wrote:
Woodward Knew Two Years Ago

So, Plame was not considered to be covert... Woodward never discussed Plame with Rove or Libby... A two-year investigation and there's nothing to show for it...


Bucky, this does not change the fact that Scooter went around Washington outing Plame to any journalist who would listen. It does not mean that Plame was not "considered" to be covert. The CIA "considered" her to be covert, and you can't change that reality as much as you would like to.

All this does is give Patrick Fitzgerald another target in the Bush administration to pursue. It merely shows that the effort to expose Plame was even more widespread. It looks like everyone in the White House was involved.

BTW, the person who outed Plame to Woodward was Assistant to the President For National Security Affairs Steven Hadley. So, this revelation brings the scandal even closer to Bush.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 11:02 am 
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Of course it doesn't change anything. :lol:

Plame's name was exposed when it was and by those who did it because their intention was to punish Plame's husband for not playing their little war game. They think they're untouchable and can do just as they please. Well, guess what! Their playtime is just about over...and so is Bush's.

Quote:
Bush's Approval Rating
Falls Again, Poll Shows

THE WALL STREET JOURNAL ONLINE
November 17, 2005

President Bush's positive job rating continues to fall, touching another new low for his presidency, the latest Harris Interactive poll finds.

Bush's current job approval rating stands at 34%, compared with a positive rating of 88% soon after 9/11, 50% at this time last year, and 40% in August.


http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB ... in_tff_top


Libby is scum. He's just another toxic head on the Bush Hydra.

http://www.armchairsubversive.com/

http://www.tompaine.com/articles/200511 ... _libby.php

GOP = GRAND OLD PEDOPHILES

Catherine

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 1:03 pm 
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Catherine wrote:
Of course it doesn't change anything. :lol:

Plame's name was exposed when it was and by those who did it because their intention was to punish Plame's husband for not playing their little war game. They think they're untouchable and can do just as they please. Well, guess what! Their playtime is just about over...and so is Bush's.

Catherine


The twisted logic of the Republicans is particularly idiotic in this case. Look at the weird rationale they are using:

Even though Joe Wilson was absolutely correct when he reported that Iraq had not attempted to buy uranium from Niger, he was not credible in his correct assessment, because his wife worked for the CIA. :?

The choice of Joe Wilson by the CIA for this mission smacks of nepotism, because his wife works for the CIA. Yet, he received no compensation for his efforts, and he even paid for the trip out of his own pocket.

Scooter Libby didn't out Valerie Plame, because he didn't actually use her name. He just said, "Joe Wilson's wife". Joe Wilson is very well known in Washington, and a Google search of Wilson instantly revealed the name of his wife. :roll:

Now, everyone is innocent because Presidential advisor Steven Hadley told Woodward about Plame a month before Scooter, Rove, Cheney, ect. went on their crusade to publicize her identity.

Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald has no case against Scooter, Rove, Cheney, ect. because he didn't know that Hadley was the first Bush administration senior official to out Valerie Plame to a journalist.

In this last instance, the Republicans and their puppydog press have rewritten history. This assertion is false:

Quote:
...will Mr. Fitzgerald now say he was wrong to say on TV that Scooter Libby was the first official to give this information to a reporter?"


Here is what Fitzgerald said from the actual transcript of his press conference:

Quote:
FITZGERALD: But Mr. Novak was not the first reporter to be told that Wilson's wife, Valerie Wilson, Ambassador Wilson's wife Valerie, worked at the CIA. Several other reporters were told.

In fact, Mr. Libby was the first official known to have told a reporter when he talked to Judith Miller in June of 2003 about Valerie Wilson.

Link


At the time Fitzgerald made that statement, Scooter Libby was indeed the first known official to have outed Plame to a reporter.

However, the mainstream news media have, at the request of their masters in the Republican party, removed the word known from any discussion about Fitzgerald's statement.

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 Post subject: Re: Woodward Knew Two Years Ago
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 2:33 pm 
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shoeless wrote:
buckshot wrote:
Woodward Knew Two Years Ago

So, Plame was not considered to be covert... Woodward never discussed Plame with Rove or Libby... A two-year investigation and there's nothing to show for it...


Bucky, this does not change the fact that Scooter went around Washington outing Plame to any journalist who would listen. It does not mean that Plame was not "considered" to be covert. The CIA "considered" her to be covert, and you can't change that reality as much as you would like to.

All this does is give Patrick Fitzgerald another target in the Bush administration to pursue. It merely shows that the effort to expose Plame was even more widespread. It looks like everyone in the White House was involved.

BTW, the person who outed Plame to Woodward was Assistant to the President For National Security Affairs Steven Hadley. So, this revelation brings the scandal even closer to Bush.

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Funny how the braindead partisan right tries to excuse libby's Obstruction of Justice by lying to the Grand Jury and investigators with the revelation that another official was a traitor too...

So tell me bucky... which republican family value is it to lie to investigators? or a Grand Jury? which republican family value is it to divulge state secrets to the press?

:twisted:

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 4:52 pm 
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Can't wait for bucky's reply to all of this cited information that we've given him. You'll notice that bucky seldom CITES any of his "information." He thinks we don't know that his 'source' in this piece is named Matt Margolis, and that Margolis is just another paid Republican winger very similar to Bill O'Reilly, Ann Coulter, Tucker Carlson, and Rush "the Drug Addict" Limbaugh. :lol:

How much do you want to bet that buckyboots will come back with something about Bill Clinton, IF he comes back at all?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Catherine

Read on:

Fitzgerald Expected to Present Woodward Evidence To New Grand Jury

Thu Nov 17, 2005

(Thanks to mitch2k2 for tracking down the nugget that not only has Woodward been deposed, but that Fitzgerald intends to present the information to a new (already seated) grand jury.) Via the WSJ (subscription only):


The White House now must brace itself for the possibility that Mr. Fitzgerald's probe, far from winding down, may have just gotten a second wind. Prosecutors deposed Mr. Woodward in anticipation of presenting that evidence to a new grand jury, according to a person familiar with the situation. The one that indicted Mr. Libby expired on Oct. 28. That could require that Mr. Card and the unnamed official be called to testify about their conversations with Mr. Woodward. A White House spokeswoman declined to comment.

Presuming the obvious -- that Fitzgerald would not be presenting evidence if not actively seeking new indictments, or at least probing the possibilities of such from the grand jury -- it is difficult to see the Woodward revelations as good news for the White House. That hasn't stopped the usual parties from trying, of course, but I'm not sure that uninformed spin will accomplish anything meaningful, in this circumstance, even if it is the only thing that most partisans are good at. Fitzgerald's case is Fitzgerald's case, and is not likely to be influenced by partisan guesswork as to what the revelations of Woodward's additional source might mean.

Woodward's revelations are being used, by many, to cement what I've referred to previously as the "idiot" defense of the White House -- that Plame's classified status was not overtly leaked as an act of punishment, but was widely propagated simply due to wide-ranging administration incompetence at the handling of classified data. That could very well be the case, but it's also unclear that willful incompetence abrogates the legal implications of the case -- a question very broadly hinted at by Fitzgerald in the content of the existing Libby indictment, and even more so in his press conference describing the indictment.


::
There are in fact a wide variety of curiosities in the current state of the investigation. The indictment against Libby was detailed far in excess of what it needed to be, to strictly bring Libby to trial, and as others have pointed out seemed to focus at length on details important only for indictments based on the Espionage Act or other laws directly pertaining to the leak itself. Many of us have assumed the obvious explanation -- that Fitzgerald was openly telegraphing the seriousness of the investigation, laying out the particulars in anticipation of both expected criticisms from administration backers and as a direct preview of the language that could accompany further indictments.

It is unclear, then, whether any of the Woodward-related revelations change the Libby case in a meaningful way. Woodward was contacted by Fitzgerald in the week following the Libby indictment, after his source apparently went to Fitzgerald directly to disclose the conversation with Woodward. Whether that official was prompted by an inquiry from Fitzgerald, by their own newly discovered memory, by an after-the-fact attempt to assist Libby, or in an uncomfortable admission prompted by Rove's alleged "new information" that "gave Fitzgerald pause", during the week in which Fitzgerald was by multiple reports considering Rove's possible indictment alongside Libby, we don't know -- all those hypotheses have merit.

But it is intriguing that even at this late post-Miller-testimony date, yet another instance of a Plame-related leak to a reporter has suddenly popped up.

Remember -- [b]and it is truly remarkable, how many ostensibly seasoned observers have found themselves opaque to the point -- Libby has been indicted at this point for obstructing the investigation into the leak, not for being the original leaker. He flatly lied about his knowledge of Plame's status, and how he obtained it, even though his own notes bluntly contradicted his repeated testimony. While the Woodward revelation may inform the investigation of the original leak, it is extremely unlikely to have any impact on the perjury and obstruction of justice charges facing Libby. Clearly, Woodward's testimony has not claimed that he gave the information to Libby; to the contrary, Libby's notes continue to mark Vice President Cheney as the initial source of Libby's knowledge.


Now we learn that Woodward's testimony and surrounding facts are expected to be presented to a new (actually, an already seated, but new to the case) grand jury. Given that these new revelations point to an additional source promoting Plame's classified status to reporters, this is in no way good news for the White House. Fitzgerald would simply have no reason to submit the information to a grand jury except for the most obvious reason: as a continuation of the investigation, and as part of building a case for additional indictments.

Woodward's actions in this case -- not a simple refusal to breach confidentiality, but his repeated public punditry on the supposed lack of merit of the investigation, all the while withholding his own highly material involvement -- are yet another black eye for an American press that has been roundly shamed by their acquiescent, prostrate and enabling behaviors in this case and others. But in both reigniting, yet again, suspicions of other administration officials, and in pointing yet again to the involvement of multiple administration officials in a lengthy campaign of discussing Plame's CIA status -- which, regardless of parsings and protestations, was demonstrably classified information -- Woodward has not done the White House any favors either.[/b]

Link: http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/11/17/215947/54

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 10:30 pm 
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Wow Catherine! Bucky assured us that the fact that yet another Bush administration senior official has been implicated in this scandal (presidential advisor Steven Hadley) means that all of the Bush administration officials who crusaded to publicize the identity of a covert CIA agent are now somehow exonerated.

Seems that Patrick Fitzgerald is not convinced by that line of Big Brother doublespeak.

Oh, and don't hold your breath waiting for Bucky to address this issue again. He's slithered back to his secure undisclosed location.


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