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 Post subject: What would America be like without the ACLU?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 4:04 pm 
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This article came out in July, 05. Imagine what America would be like if the government were to start random acts of secret observation on American citizens if they started to gather information secretly through illegal wiretaps and misuse of gathwered information? Oh I forgot, we have since discovered they are doing just that! No wonder the Repugnantlicans hate the ACLU. It stands for freedom and liberty for the American People while the Republicrats stand for the limitation of freedoms and civil liberties for the purpose of the subjugation of the American people into obedient little slaves

http://www.aclu.org//safefree/general/1 ... 50607.html

Quote:
Senate Panel Considering Patriot Act Expansion Bill in Secret; ACLU Says Fixes, Not Expansions, Are Needed (6/7/2005)

WASHINGTON - The Senate Select Committee on Intelligence is meeting today behind closed doors to conclude secret deliberations on legislation designed to reauthorize - and expand - the Patriot Act. The American Civil Liberties Union denounced the secretive process, and said lawmakers should be reforming, not expanding, the most extreme parts of the Patriot Act. The proposed bill would make the Patriot Act's most controversial provisions permanent, and further expand it by allowing FBI agents to issue their own search orders with no court approval.

"When lawmakers seek to rewrite our Fourth Amendment rights, they should at least have the gumption to do so in public," said Lisa Graves, ACLU Senior Counsel for Legislative Strategy. "In the past few days, thousands of concerned Americans have called on lawmakers in Washington to reject this misguided - and secretive - approach."

"Americans have a reasonable expectation that their federal government will not gather records about their health, their wealth and the transactions of their daily life without probable cause of a crime and without a court order," Graves added. "We can give law enforcement the tools they need to protect us without sidestepping our Constitution's fundamental checks and balances."

The bill would give the FBI "administrative subpoena" authority, permitting the bureau to write and approve its own search orders for any tangible thing held by a third party deemed relevant to an intelligence investigation, without prior judicial approval. This unilateral power would let agents seize personal records from medical facilities, libraries, hotels, gun dealers, banks and any other businesses without any specific facts connecting those records to any criminal activity or a foreign agent. This would drastically undermine the Fourth Amendment's protections against unreasonable searches and seizures.

Proponents of that power claim that this would give the FBI the same power used by government agencies administering federal programs, like Medicare. But these agencies do not have at their disposal, as does the FBI, other tools like grand jury subpoenas or Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act search orders. The ACLU noted that Congress has continuously denied this power, long sought for by the FBI, for good reasons. Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-CA), a member of the Intelligence and Judiciary Committees, expressed concerns that this expanded power would give the FBI "carte blanche" to go on "fishing expeditions" without checks against abuse.

The proposal would also remove one of the few safeguards in place for intelligence investigations. Currently, business records of an American cannot be demanded "solely upon the basis of activities protected by the first amendment to the Constitution." The proposed legislation would delete this restriction and allow records to be sought based on constitutionally protected activity as long as the investigation as a whole is not based solely on constitutionally protected activity.

"The Patriot Act went too far, too fast - the current proposal would go even farther in the trampling of our rights," Graves said. "Now is the time for Congress to consider well-thought out modifications to the Patriot Act, like the bipartisan SAFE Act, that will preserve both our security and our liberty. Lawmakers must reject this unneeded power grab."


For more on the ACLU's concerns with the proposed legislation, go to:
/safefree/general/17553leg20050518.html



A sign-on letter objecting to the administrative subpoena power is available at:
/safefree/general/17632leg20050523.html


Well, don't say they didn't warn you! If we silence the only voice it seems that stands between our freedoms and liberties and this hegemonic oligarchic timocratic imperialist corpratistic structure, then we will be left to the mercies and whims of the police state at its most severe and atrocious since the extremist days of emperor Chin of China, Kublai and Ghenghis Khan. Help save the only real vestige of resistance left since all the checks and balances in the party politic have been effectively bought and sold and removed from the constitution with the overthrow of the 4th amendment.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 4:15 pm 
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the ACLU needs to get A CLU
a common sense response to the so-called "American Civil Liberties Union"
The American Civil Liberties Union is representing the North American Man-Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) pro bono in a Massachusetts case. Apparently, to them, an organization devoted to encouraging pedophilia and legalizing sex between children and adults is entitled to free legal defense.
And just in case you need to read on...

The ACLU issued a press release announcing a lawsuit to challenge the posting of a list of 'Voter Responsibilities' in Florida. Some of the requirements are that a voter "study and know candidates and issues," "bring proper identification to the polling station," and "know how to operate voting equipment properly." "The plaintiffs claim that these provisions, and their prominent display as required by the new Florida law, are a throwback to the days of literacy tests, and may disproportionately impact race and language minorities in exercising the right to vote."

Get a clu, ACLU. Educating oneself about the candidates and issues is the bare minimum we should expect from the voting public.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“This textbook contains material on evolution. Evolution is a theory and not a fact, regarding the origin of living things. This material should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully and critically considered.” Sounds perfectly sound, doesn't it? The scientific method by its very nature requires observation. Macro-evolution has not been observed anywhere at anytime. Evolution is still a theory. But oh my, this might open young minds up to the possiblity that we didn't just arrive on the earth by random chance. This got the ACLU very huffy, and so they tacked "religion" onto it, and filed a lawsuit over Atlanta schools putting a sticker with the above on their biology textbooks. Never mind that the sticker did not mention creationism, or even discuss any religion. Get a clu, ACLU. With what part of "this... should be approached with an open mind" do you take such issue?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The ACLU signed a statement in January agreeing to not hire people whose names appear on "watch lists" of those suspected of having ties to terrorists. The concept of these lists is the exact kind of thing the ACLU is (usually) vehemently opposed to. In fact according to testimony in the Senate, the ACLU is likely to sure any airline that deviates from "random screening" and questions more than 2 passengers from any ethnic or geographic group. (Never mind that each of the planes on 9/11 had more than 2 terrorists, all from the same ethnic group). The ACLU has also gotten huffy about CAPPS II (see below). Signing such an agreement was a condition of receiving donations through the government's employee payroll deduction program...
A Virginia state law makes it illegal for teens to attend a nudist camp without a parent, grandparent, or legal guardian. Featured activities at this camp are volleyball and swimming, and the camp manager Bob Roche said that the camp would teach teens social interaction skills. (I bet it would). The ACLU said litigation is likely and Roche said, "if we have to, we will sue for money." Virginia delegate Richard Black said, "There are laws against child pornography - and if you can't put it in a picture, I don't understand why you could put it at an outdoors camp." Rebecca Glenberg, legal director of the ACLU of Virginia called this common sense law a "knee jerk" reaction. "There was no good reason to enact this law, and there is no reason to believe that these camps are harmful to children in any way," says she. Fortunately a federal judge dismissed the lawsuit brought on by the camp. Looks like the teenagers will have to wait at least another year to spike a volleyball in the nude and go skinny dipping. (Whatever happened to basket weaving and navigating with a compass?) Get a clu, ACLU. Is there any "good reason" for half the things that come out of your camp?

As the FCC is cracking down on media outlets for indecent programming (which is more than justifiable especially following the recent antics of Janet Jackson/Justin Timberlake, Bono, and Howard Stern), the ACLU joined a group that filed a petition whining about it. "The FCC is now setting itself up as a national censorship board, seeking to impose its version of morality on the American public," said Chris Hansen, an ACLU staff attorney. (Washington Times, April 20, 2004) Get a clu, ACLU. You do not own the airwaves, the public does. The airwaves are limited and therefore broadcasters have a (gasp) responsibility to the public that for instance the press does not have. Howard Stern, average Joe, anyone, can start a newsletter, magazine, or Web site and say whatever they want to. Broadcasters do not have this luxury.


boys striving to be trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind...
and the aclu trying to put a stop to it

The ACLU sued to put a stop to the Boy Scouts of San Diego to use a city facility called Balboa Park for a summer camp. The park has been leased to the Scouts since 1957, and the Scouts had invested $5 million into it, and it is open to the public. The ACLU claimed that the Boy Scouts must be considered a "religious organization" because they do not view active homosexuals to be fit to serve as Scoutmasters for these young men (oh yeah, and that bit about "doing their duty to God and their country"). The suit began when two couples (one of whom was a lesbian couple) said that the Scouts policies made homosexuals feel excluded. (Never mind that neither couple had ever been to the park).

In return for their efforts, the ACLU has collected $790,000 in legal fees and $160,000 in court costs.


friendly neighborhood porn, courtesy of the aclu
The Children’s Internet Protection Act was passed in 2000 and was upheld by the Supreme Court when pro-porn lawyers tried to tie it up in court. Yet not surprisingly, the ACLU sued because the law supposedly violates the right to free speech. After all, they seemed to be saying, lower income people without the Internet at home need to be able to filterlessly download porn with public library computers. Get a clu, ACLU. As if the "right to free speech" should include the right of a curious 13-year-old to walk down the street to the library and surf for porn sites on public computers without parental knowledge or consent.


find the cross
The ACLU threatened to sue Los Angeles County unless it removed a small cross from its seal, which had been emblazoned on thousands of buildings as well as stationery, flags, etc, for almost 50 years. The seal contained 6 panels with the Roman goddess Pomona, representing the regions agriculture, at the center. The cross represented the area's settlement by Spanish missionaries. Other images included a triangle and caliper (industry), oil derricks, San Salvador, and a tuna and cow (fishing and dairy). The county unfortunately bowed to the pressure. Get a clu, ACLU. The cross was not, as you said, "an impermissible endorsement of Christianity" any more than featuring Pomona was an endorsement of pagan worship.
People, this cross took up less than one-fourth of one percent of the surface area on this seal. Said Joseph Farah on worldnetdaily.com, "The cross would hardly have been noticed if it had not been brought to the world's attention by the ACLU... The ACLU is not concerned about the establishment of religion at all. It is concerned about the elimination of Christianity from public life in America."


While they fight to expunge any form of Christianity from America's public landscape, they seem to have an amazing tolerance for expressions of other faiths.

California public schools, for example, recently had students, without their parents' knowledge, to take a course on Islam, complete with recitation of prayers. The ACLU was silent on this issue.

The Washington Times reported that in Utah, the ACLU even set up a scavenger hunt, with a prize for anyone who found another Ten Commandments monument the ACLU could persuade an activist judge to removed.... and that as a reward for winning the removal of Judge Moore's Ten Commandments display in Alabama, the ACLU, Americans United for Church and State and the Southern Poverty Law Center collected $540,000 in attorney's fees and expenses from taxpayers. (June 17, 2004)

The ACLU got all huffy when they heard that the Hagerstown Suns AA baseball team were offering (gasp) $2 discounts to fans who brought (heaven forbid!) church bulletins to Sunday games. This was not restricted to selected denominations or religions, the bulletin could have come from any church, synagogue, Unitarian gathering, wiccan mass, whatever, held any day of the week. Moreover, the Suns even freely offerered to give the original offended fan a bulletin that he could use anyway to get the discount, and he refused. The ACLU sued, then claimed that the Suns were working this fracas for publicity. Get a clu, ACLU. Your whining is what caused most of the attention this received.

Since the Our Lady of Lourdes Healthcare Service in New Jersey has a policy against abortion, the ACLU wants them to provide a separate building on its campus for that purpose. They argue that the hospital is obligated to abort fetuses because its original mission statement called for "comprehensive" health care services. Get a clu, ACLU. The mission statement was written in 1961, when abortion was a felony. Is abortion "comprehensively healthy" for pre-born babies? I guess this is a wrong question to ask an organization who has on its web site a section called "Fighting Fetal Rights."


The ACLU is one of many liberal groups who organized a pro-abortion march in Washington DC in April 2004. Teamed with them was the National Education Association, whose headquarters acted as a hospitality center for the marchers. (Washington Times, April 19, 2004) Thousands of pro-life teachers and school staff are required to belong to - and pay dues to - the NEA, while the organization uses their resources for pro-abortion political purposes. Get a clu, ACLU -- are you telling us is that it's not ok to talk about Christianity or abstinence, yet it is perfectly ok to espouse the killing of innocent children, including partial-birth abortion?

Yes, the ACLU is one of the groups that filed law suits claiming that the ban on partial birth abortion of November 2003 takes away a "fundamental constitutional right." Abortion providers themselves have gone on record to say that during this procedure, there is "usually a heartbeat," and that the baby is "still living," and that there "will be pain caused," perhaps "severe and excruciating." Get a clu, ACLU -- a constitutional right? And you can't blame this rhetoric on the pro-lifers either, this is coming straight from the chief proponents themselves.

Drivers in Tennessee almost had the option to choose specialty license plates that read, "Choose Life," when the ACLU sued, claiming that the slogan "discriminates against residents with an opposing viewpoint." An "opposing viewpoint" to "Choose Life?" Wonder what that could mean. Discrimination against residents with such? Get a clu, ACLU, if you want to lobby for a license plate that reads, "Choose Death," go right ahead.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 4:17 pm 
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The ACLU supported a lawsuit that led to action from the US Court of Appeals in striking down a Colorado law that required parents be notified when their underage daughters seek an abortion. Apparently "abortion providers" seeking financial gain, not parents, have a child's best interests at heart.

Claiming "separation of church and state" (see below) the ACLU threatened in 1999 to sue Arizona governor Jane Hull who proclaimed a "Bible week" for the state.
Said Eleanor Eisenberg, Executive Director of the Arizona Civil Liberties Union, when the governor dropped the proclamation,

"We are gratified that the Governor understands that it is not appropriate for the government to elevate one religion over another or to promote religion over non-religion." (archive.aclu.org/news/1999/n030199d.html)

However...

When Hull issued a proclamation commemorating Buddha's birthday, they were silent. As were they also when students in California were forced to practice Islam or face failing grades.

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 Post subject: Re: What would America be like without the ACLU?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 4:24 pm 
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DO.g's wrote:
Help save the only real vestige of resistance left since all the checks and balances in the party politic have been effectively bought and sold and removed from the constitution with the overthrow of the 4th amendment.


And let's not forget what the regressive forces of tyranny are doing to the 6th Amendment!

Link: Secret court cases increase under Bush administration

WASHINGTON -- Despite the 6th Amendment's guarantee of public trials, nearly all records are being kept secret for more than 5,000 defendants who completed their journey through the federal courts in the past three years.

Instances of such secrecy more than doubled from 2003 to 2005.

At the request of the AP, the Administrative Office of U.S. Courts conducted its first tally of secrecy in federal criminal cases. The nationwide data showed that the bulk of the records for 5,116 defendants whose cases were completed in 2003, 2004 and 2005 remain secret.

"The constitutional presumption is for openness in the courts, but we have to ask whether we are really honoring that," said Laurie Levenson, a former federal prosecutor and now a law professor at Loyola Law School in Los Angeles.

The courts' administrative office and the Justice Department declined to comment on the numbers.

The data show a sharp increase in secret case files as the Bush administration's reliance on secrecy in the executive branch has crept into the federal courts through the war on drugs, anti-terrorism efforts and other criminal matters.

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<bump>

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 6:10 pm 
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You are obviously a child. You have never worked for a union. It shows. You are under 21 and still living with your parents. Man it shows.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:21 am 
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There are a few different types of regressive right-wingers. In shane and bucky we happen to have representitives of ideologies which approach enslavement from two distinct, but still both regressive right wing directions.

bucky- the quickest and most direct method of becoming enslaved; that being the total abdication of all rights to a tyrannical government.

shane- the methodical destuction of labor, trade, anti-trust, and regulatory laws allowing enslavement of workers by global corporatists.

Both ideologies lead to destruction of the American middle class, but it is fascinating to see how they arrive at a similar goal from different approaches.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:57 am 
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Quote:
You are obviously a child.


wrong

Quote:
You have never worked for a union.


wrong

Quote:
You are under 21 and still living with your parents


wrong


anything else from the liberal brainwashing machine.

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DESTROY THE QURAN OR BE DESTROYED BY IT


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:59 pm 
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You are sitting there lying. If you ever worked for a union you would never go against a union at ant cost. It's a brotherhood Bucko. You don't go against a brotherhood. You support each other no matter what, which brings to my accusations, your lying. I represented the ACLU and they represented me for 4 yrs. that I've been the union steward. You are one of those people who "if" their rights are violated are the first to the phone or your rep, but in the same breath bash them from behind. I hate backstabers and that's what you are. I've won several cases for women, affirmative action, religion (even though I don't support it.) So I've got you pegged. I know how you are. So don't give me the ACLU discriminates because they dont. I've seen them first hand go to bat for all people. Your'e just believing what the press wants you to believe. Or should I say the "conservative press" since thats all you subscribe too. Thers no way on this green earth you would believe a liberal media source. Thats how much you discriminate. If it wasn't for a union "YOU" would not be making an honest wage THATS why republican's hate unions.

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It's interesting that B.S. would once again point an accusatory finger at
communism, when the fact that if we forced religion and prayers it would be closer to Nazi Fascism, since the communists advocate the freeing from the chains of oppressin of religion for man and womankind. So as we see, once again, the forcing of religion on schools is a fascist agenda and more closely adheres to the Neo Nazi right wing repukelican agenda. Read the book and see the PBS documentary on Theologians under Hitler to see how faith based teachings can be twisted to the states purpose and better understand why so many segments of the constitution are for seperation of church and state.

Here is some excerpts from a lecture on Religion & America's Public Schools. Go to this site if you wish to read more.

http://www.lectlaw.com/files/con23.htm

Quote:
Reverend W.W. Finlator. For 26 years I was the pastor of
Pullen Memorial Baptist Church here in Raleigh, North Carolina.... I am concerned about the crisis of values in our society.... concern about the seeming lack of faith and values in America ....strengthen these
values is to reach out to the next generation. They want to bring
religion to our children in another way. Not through parents at home,
or in church, but through the public schools.

...asked yourselves whether prayer belongs in public schools.... the role of religion in the nation's public schools is important because it raises many basic questions about our society and its constitutional heritage, and whether the government should play any role in telling people where, when and how to pray.

... founders of our nation strongly believed that government, whether
on the national or local level, should not become involved -- in any
way -- in religious activities. They said government must not
regulate religion, conduct religious services or interfere in any way
with church activities. Our nation's founders believed that people
should be free to pursue their own religious beliefs without
government interference.

We asked Professor Laycock to explain the historical reasons
why the founders of our great nation wanted to keep government out of
all religious matters. Constantine which is the 4th century, to
nearly the time of the American Constitution, the assumption in
European society was everybody in the country had to have the same
religion and the religion they had to have was the King's religion.
The King got to choose and everybody got to follow him.... for nearly 200 years in Europe you had civil war and international war, basically between Protestants and Catholics. The issue, Protestant v. Catholic and the risk of a Catholic King, was a constant issue in English politics which broke out into warfare repeatedly and many of the American colonies were founded by people who fled that conflict in Europe.

Rev. Finlator:

Since the birth of this nation, we have debated the issue of separation of church and state in one form or another. And I'm sure we'll be debating it for a long time to come. In the end however, the debate seems to end up in the same place. Most Americans -- myself included -- don't want the government interfering in any of our most private affairs, especially not our religion.

I'm a Baptist...I didn't want them(family) brought up in any other faith. And we didn't want anyone else to take that responsibility away from us, especially not the government... when a teacher leads a prayer in the public school, he or she usurps your role as a parent. This may not at first seem objectionable to you if you are a Baptist and it's a Baptist prayer or tradition that's being practiced in the school. But what if it were a Mormon prayer? Or a Jewish prayer? Or a Muslim prayer? A prayer that
endorsed beliefs that offended you. Would you really want that in
your school? Would you want your child forced to participate in that?
I wouldn't. But once you allow one form of prayer in the school, you
are inviting other forms of prayer in as well -- even secular humanist or atheist prayers.

The subject of school sponsored prayer inevitably comes up every
spring during graduation. It came up for Angie Willmore in May,
1993. Angie is from a religious, Mormon family. Her community of
Rexburg, Idaho, is predominantly Mormon. Because of this, Angie's
graduating class thought that praying during graduation would not
hurt anyone. But Angie felt differently. She knew the Supreme Court
had ruled only the year before that prayers at graduation violated
the Constitution, because, as Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy
said, and I quote, "The Constitution forbids the State to exact
religious conformity from a student as the price of attending her own
high school graduation." Angie decided to protest the prayer by
walking out of her high school graduation.

Angie...prayer at her high school graduation violated her right to religious liberty, because it was the government telling her when and how to pray. The right to be free from such government interference is guaranteed to Angie and to all Americans by the First Amendment to our Constitution, the bedrock of law and justice in our country.


In fact this notion of religious liberty was so important to the
founders of our nation that they combined it with two of our other
most cherished rights - the guarantees of free speech and free press.
In carefully chosen language, our nation's founders said that the
government could best guarantee religious liberty in America by
leaving religion entirely alone.


This is just an excerpt from this article but it clearly shows that involving church in affaiers outside its confines is a definite NO NO. What "Bucktooth the serpent", King of the "COPY AND PASTE", without any ability to think for himself would want us to believe is this innocent appearing snake oil potion is safe to swallow. It is a beginning to the neonazi agenda that the government would endorse as another social control mechanism through falsehood and oppression by government and clergy. THIS is what the founding fathers objected to and this is what the ACLU is ready to defend.

The religious agenda is nothing but a smoke screen for the intent of the elite in America to control the masses through their false beliefs and the willingness of the fools to be coerced through fear and pathetic trust in false stories. They do this by forcing their values on the political landscape and make it an issue of contention, thus proving that they are always right and never lie. The use of the clergy is nothing more than a front for scheisters to fleece the flock and control their thinking. Hitler used this same tactic and pretended to be a christian just like Bush does.

Just because Americas morals and values are going down in the shitter into a cesspool of lies, doesn't mean we have to dive in and rejoice in it.

_________________
Completely sane world
madness the only freedom

An ability to see both sides of a question
one of the marks of a mature mind

People don't choose to be dishonest
the choice chooses them

Now I know how Kusinich feels.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:55 pm 
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justinmoon22 wrote:
You are sitting there lying. If you ever worked for a union you would never go against a union at ant cost. It's a brotherhood Bucko. You don't go against a brotherhood. You support each other no matter what, which brings to my accusations, your lying. I represented the ACLU and they represented me for 4 yrs. that I've been the union steward. You are one of those people who "if" their rights are violated are the first to the phone or your rep, but in the same breath bash them from behind. I hate backstabers and that's what you are. I've won several cases for women, affirmative action, religion (even though I don't support it.) So I've got you pegged. I know how you are. So don't give me the ACLU discriminates because they dont. I've seen them first hand go to bat for all people. Your'e just believing what the press wants you to believe. Or should I say the "conservative press" since thats all you subscribe too. Thers no way on this green earth you would believe a liberal media source. Thats how much you discriminate. If it wasn't for a union "YOU" would not be making an honest wage THATS why republican's hate unions.


whatever parrot, the aclu and unions are nothing but money hungry busineses. i have been in two unions before. so no you don't have anything pegged but your brainwashed mind.and no if my rghts are violated i'm not calling any union or the commie regime aclu.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:11 am 
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Oh so now I'm a parrot. Back to your name calling games which means I'm winning again. Money hungry? We get money through union dues. That's it genius. All the money gained goes to legal fees so we can take big ass named corps. to court. Last time I checked it's quite expensive to get an attorney and go to court. Small claims court can cost in the tens of thousands of dollars. Once AGAIN you show me your age. Wow, your really not as smart as I though you were. You worked for two unions? Which means you got fired or QUIT. So either way your a hack that cant make it. I hope like hell you dont take a carrer in litigation, you will not make any money because you can't argue worth a damn. Youv'e already lost more than youv'e won.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:22 am 
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Wow, your really not as smart as I though you were.


You thought he was smart??!! :shock:

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