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 Post subject: Black and White and Full of Crap
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2005 12:19 am 
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Ted Rall: 'Black and white and full of crap'

Lies Run Big, Facts Small in U.S. Media

By Ted Rall, Yahoo

NEW YORK--One year ago the American media was pushing the Pat Tillman story with the heavy rotation normally reserved for living celebs like Michael Jackson. Tillman, the former NFL player who turned down a multi-million dollar football contract to fight in Iraq and Afghanistan, became a centerpiece of the right's Hamas-style death cult when he lost his life in the mountains of southeastern Afghanistan. To supporters of the wars and to many football fans, Tillman embodied ideals of self-sacrifice and post-9/11 butt-kicking in a hard-bodied shell of chisel-chinned masculinity on steroids.

Tillman's quintessential nobility, we were told, was borne out by the story of his death--a tale that earned him a posthumous Silver Star. Whether you were for or against Bush's wars, Americans were told, Tillman's valor showed why you should support the troops. Young men were encouraged to emulate his praiseworthy example.

Several thousand mourners gathered at Tillman's May 3, 2004 memorial service to hear marquee names including Arizona Senator John McCain called upon all Americans to "be worthy of the sacrifices made on our behalf."



"Tillman died trying to save fellow members of the 75th Ranger Regiment caught in a crush of enemy fire," the Arizona Republic quoted a fellow soldier addressing the crowd. Tillman, said his friend and comrade-at-arms, had told his fellow soldiers "to seize the tactical high ground from the enemy" to draw enemy fire away from another U.S. platoon trapped in an ambush. "He directly saved their lives with those moves. Pat sacrificed his life so that others could live." It was, as the Washington Post wrote, a "storybook personal narrative"--one recounted on hundreds of front pages and network newscasts.

It was also a lie.

As sharp-eyed readers learned a few months ago from single-paragraph articles buried deep inside their newspapers, Pat Tillman died pointlessly, a hapless victim of "friendly fire" who never got the chance to choose between bravery and cowardice. As if that wasn't bad enough, the Washington Post now reports that Pentagon and White House officials knew the truth "within days" after his April 22, 2004 shooting by fellow Army Rangers but "decided not to inform Tillman's family or the public until weeks after" the nationally televised martyr-a-thon.

It gets worse. So desperate were the military brass to carry off their propaganda coup that they lied to Tillman's brother, a fellow soldier who arrived on the scene shortly after the incident, about how he died. Writing in an army report, Brigadier General Gary Jones admits that the official cover-up even included "the destruction of evidence": the army burned Tillman's Ranger uniform and body armor to hide the fact that he had died in a hail of American bullets, fired by troops who had "lost situational awareness to the point they had no idea where they were."

"We didn't want the world finding out what actually happened," one soldier told Jones. A perfect summary of the war on terrorism.

The weapons of mass destruction turned out to be a figment of Donald Rumsfeld's imagination. The Thanksgiving turkey Bush presented to the troops turned out to be plastic, as much of a staged photo op as the gloriously iconic and phony toppling of Saddam's statue in Baghdad by jubilant Iraqi civilians--well, actually a few dozen marines and CIA-financed operatives. So many of the Administration's "triumphs" have been exposed as frauds that one has to wonder whether that was really Saddam in the spider hole.

We shouldn't blame the White House for producing lies; that's what politicians do. But we expect better from the media who disseminate them.

Case study: the Washington Post's dutiful transcription of the Jessica Lynch hoax. Played up on page one and running on for thousands of words, the fanciful Pentagon version had the pilot from West Virginia emptying her clip before finally succumbing to a gunshot wound (and possible rape) by evil Iraqi ambushers, then freed from her tormentors at a heavily-guarded POW hospital.

Like the Pat Tillman story, it was pure fiction. Private Lynch, neither shot nor sexually violated, said she was injured when her vehicle crashed. She never got off a shot because her gun jammed. As she told reporters who were willing to listen, her Iraqi doctors and nurses had given her excellent care. She credited them for saving her life. In a weird sort of prequel to the shooting of an Italian journalist, they had even attempted to turn her over at a U.S. checkpoint but were forced to flee when American troops fired at them.

In all of these examples, editors and producers played corrective follow-up stories with far less fanfare than the original, incorrect ones. To paraphrase "X-Files" character Fox Mulder, the truth is in there--in the paper, on TV. It's just really, really hard to find.

Readers of the American press and viewers of American radio and television are likelier to see and believe loudly repeated lies over occasionally whispered truths told once or twice. As a result of the reverse imbalance between fact and fiction, the propaganda versions of the Tillman and Lynch stories, the staged Saddam statue footage, and the claim that Iraq had WMDs are all believed by a misled citizenry that votes accordingly.

For journalists supposedly dedicated to uncovering the truth and informing the public, this is exactly the opposite of how things ought to be. Corrections and exposés should always run bigger, longer and more often than initial, discredited stories.

FOLLOW-UP: Readers who contacted their elected representatives in response to my column two weeks ago about the two 16-year-old Muslim girls detained by Homeland Security because one wrote an essay about suicide bombings (she was against them) have gotten results. Such pressure has prompted the feds to release the girl from Guinea, who has returned to her high school in New York City. But Bush Administration officials have decided to orphan her by deporting her father. The other girl, from Bangladesh, is also being released from prison but HomeSec plans to deport her along with her entire family. While the two girls' release obviously belies the government's claims that they are "an imminent threat to the security of the United States," your letters and phone calls to your Congressperson and/or Senator could help reverse these continuing acts of injustice.


Link:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ucru/20050511/
cm_ucru/blackandwhiteandfullofcrap/nc:742

Catherine

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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2005 2:27 am 
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Reprinted from NewsMax.com

Tuesday, April 27, 2004

If anyone still doubts the America-hating bent of the far left, this item is for you.

Something that calls itself Independent Media Center, which OpinionJournal.com's James Taranto calls "one of the most virulent Angry Left Web sites around," has hit rock bottom. Its branch in P.C.-crazed Portland, Ore., has a page devoted to the death in combat of Pat Tillman, which it summarizes as "Dumb Jock Killed in Afghanistan."

Among the comments posted by those "tolerant liberals":

"Tillman chose to go to Afghanistan. He's partially reponsible for the deaths of hundreds, maybe thousands of Afghan civilians. No need to feel sorry for him, other than feeling bad that he was brainwashed into serving as a grunt."

"it's amazing the kind of attention this insignificant incident is going to cause. well, he was rich, white, and an american. 10,000 (brown) iraqis get killed, and it barely merits a mention in the american news. how utterly f---ing sad."
"if he 'sacrificed' anything it was his common sense. He had a good American thing going and blew it."
Are these the same leftists who ridiculed war hero Bob Dole in favor of draft dodger Bill Clinton but say John Kerry's four-month stint in Vietnam was so great?

Taranto noted that a few posters dared to disagree with the party line. One wrote: "Brave American sacrifices friends, family and fortune in defense of his country. Pigs on IndyMedia can now continue to exercise free speech, sacrifice nothing and spew hate."

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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2005 12:00 pm 
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buckshot wrote:
Reprinted from NewsMax.com
Tuesday, April 27, 2004
...
Something that calls itself Independent Media Center, which OpinionJournal.com's James Taranto calls "one of the most virulent Angry Left Web sites around," has hit rock bottom. Its branch in P.C.-crazed Portland, Ore., has a page devoted to the death in combat of Pat Tillman, which it summarizes as "Dumb Jock Killed in Afghanistan."
...


Opinion Mr. Buckshot? The Wall Street Journal's Opinion Page? What part of Opinion don't you get there? Didn't you just rail against Catherine on just that point? For, you know, posting opinion? Has the WSJ's Opinion Page morphed into the WSJ's Truth Page?

It's amazing how you, like many of your fellow Wingnutz, take the personal opinion of a few select "leftists" and turn it into "left wing ideology". It's laughable. Right wing opinion about left wing opinion is truth Mr Buckshot?

As always Bucky, your definition of truth is lacking. I've noticed a rather amorphous line delineating opinion from fact in your practice of divining truth. For someone who claims to see everything in black and white absolutes you sure do paint things in shades of grey when it comes to cherry picking the truth.

Here's your quote from another thread. It's the post about John Kerry, a thread you started by the way, where you're arguing a moot point and arguing your "point" into total irrelevance. Please note the highlighted fragment below.


on Thu May 12, 2005 1:06 am in Kerry's Promise Mr Buckshot wrote:
i challenge you to prove with solid evidence this report is not a lie, this just looks like some more typical michael moore propaganda crap, of course no actual facts to back up any of that ,it's all just opinions.


Not only is this opinion that you've quoted from NewsMax.com in the quote at the top of this post... It's old Opinion at that...

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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2005 3:58 pm 
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Quote:
Not only is this opinion that you've quoted from NewsMax.com in the quote at the top of this post... It's old Opinion at that...


Like I said...Bucky needs lots of practice doing research and even more in how to debate. :lol:

You don't like to offer opinions or viewpoints of your own anymore within these forums, do you, Buckyboots? You know that, if you do make more attempts, your responses will come across in the same nonsensical way as everything else you have posted here, whether the post is a response or a topic.

I've yet to hear one Republican/War Supporter/bible thumper/Bush Lover/Conservative Sin Eater like Bucky actually offer a reasonable and believable rebuttal of what people like us are saying about them and the Bush fascist regime. They can't do it, so they fall back on regurgitating the Limbaugh-Fox-Coulter-O'Reilly-Taranto puree they've been ingesting by the shovels full since September 12, 2001. Only in Buckyboot's case, his rants are just so much flatulence...that's another word for farts, Bucky, FYI.

When that doesn't work, then they start to WHINE and avoid the real issue...their own inadequacy and the truth about their president and his policies.

Doesn't that sound like Bucky?

Catherine

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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 12:25 am 
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sounds like you cathrine, you just profiled yourself. perfectly.and just what exactly do i have to prove to you anyway?i just speak and post the truth and because you pronunicate your words this makes you a know it all. :lol: get a life , haven't you realized that the only reason i read your post is for humor, and that i could really care less about your lies. hey if you want to lie thats on you . i really don't care, like i said it's just for humor.

i picture you as a stuck up little snob.you think you are better than everyone else, you are just a wanna be.

what have you really accomplished in your life, are you ready for after death, does it really matter or should i say can you really control what goes on beyond your life?

does hurling insults at people that don't agree with you give you some power kick ?
how much time do you think you have to live?
do you think spending 50% or even 10% of that time is worth spending if you can't control the outcome?
have your priorities really been established?

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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 2:16 pm 
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Lil' Andy wrote:
i just speak and post the truth and because you pronunicate your words this makes you a know it all.


Andy, help me here. What's "pronunicate"??? Are you trying to sound "edjamacated"? Please, please, please, stick to the words you can marginally spell. When you make an attempt at putting on scholarly airs you fail miserably and fall flat on your smug face.

Once again, to reiterate to the point of brutal redundancy, you are not entitled to your own facts. Posting your, or anyone else's opinion for that matter, is not fact.

Catherine is not a know it all, you think you are. Just because you choose to be ignorant and refuse to raise yourself to a competent level of literacy is no reason to project your inadequacies onto others.


Lil' Andy wrote:
i picture you as a stuck up little snob.you think you are better than everyone else, you are just a wanna be.


There you go Catherine... Andy's not sure how he should let you know he cares. He has a crush on you. Since you're unattainable, he denigrates you by calling you a snob. He does the same with the cheerleaders at school.

Andy, Catherine's a "wanna be" what? I think I know what your problem is. You're a "wanna be" thinker.


Lil' Andy wrote:
how much time do you think you have to live?


Feeling a little prescient today Andy? Sure you're feeling a bit rhetorical, but this is going... Where?

BTW with the exception of a Capitalization error that sentence was grammatically perfect. Have you been practicing?


Lil' Andy wrote:
do you think spending 50% or even 10% of that time is worth spending if you can't control the outcome?


Very telling... It's all about being in control. That's the "conservative" psyche in a nutshell. The unknown is a dark and scary place for those that feel they need to control their world.

Once again we are fortunate to have a peek inside the sheeple mind and its workings.

Andy, you are the poster child for mob mentality. You'd be just a comfortable in Hitler's Germany, Mussolini's Italy, Stalin's Soviet Union, Pol Pot's Cambodia, Taliban Afghanistan, Ceausescu's Romania, Saddam's Iraq, Pinochet's Chile, Marcos' Philippines, Suharto's Indonesia, Killing heretics during The Inquisition, Hunting Witches in Salem, or in any of the many US Supported Oppressive Right Wing Regimes.

Andy, you are a follower, a toady, a sycophant, a brown nose, a boot licker.

You are a follower because it's an easy way to go through life. There's none of that nasty gray area to worry about. Day in and day out it's the same old same old.

You have a deep seated need to control which is why you can't handle those that question your "philosophy". It is why you choose to adhere to an authoritarian version of "Christianity". It is why you are blindly obedient to a corrupt regime and its obscene surreal interpretation of what America is.

To reiterate your question for you. Why do you spend so much time here trying to control debate when you get nowhere?

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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 5:46 pm 
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Why do you spend so much time here trying to control debate when you get nowhere?


I'm going to make a stab at answering your excellent question, Seamus. I would say that Bucky is a masochist. He LIKES to come here, in the wee hours of the morning while he's unsupervised by those in charge of him. There he lurks, hoping none of us will show up, while he struggles to type a response, no matter how nonsensical the response is.

He's not interested in quality. He just wants to get something down that registers as a reply having been received. He also likes to see his name in the author column. What a thrill it must be for him.

Bucky just wants attention from somebody, even negative attention is better than getting no attention at all for buckyboots.

Well, he's getting lots of attention from us. It might not be the kind of attention Bucky wanted, but what the heck? :roll:

Catherine








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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 8:23 pm 
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thank you all for proving my point...... you know nothing about me but yet you keep posting lies like you do .
what do you really know seamus ,
let's see . you know for sure you don't like me , probably because i look for the truth and that just kills all your bullshit conspiracy theory's about bush,christians , and republicians.
as far as a follower well in some ways i am mr. seamus i follow the truth and you seamus you are a nazi socialist .you hate america so much , just leave . your life revolves around searching out the negative and it dosen't really matter if it's true or not , you just feed off negative.
why don't you post something good for once.
your pitifull little excuse for being a lostleft liberal dosen't amount to squat.you actually think i really give a rats ass what you or cathrine think about me.
you talk about control. well if you wasen't so thick headed you would realize i have been controling you all this time.
every little piece of truth i post here i KNOW for a fact mr small minded seamus will reply , and all i do is sit back and laugh . thats right mr. seamus i laugh . you have been controled.
this should have taught you something seamus . this is your life and i came in and controlled it, this is only a sideline laugh for me , at your expense, sorry about that.. :lol: i've been to other boards and i see the same crap bush did this bush did that on and on , CRAP. if bush really done half that shit he would be impeached like that other low life of a president we had.

but like i said this is just humor...


Quote:
You are a follower because it's an easy way to go through life. There's none of that nasty gray area to worry about. Day in and day out it's the same old same old.


thats right mr. liberal day in day out . i know right from wrong. day in day out. i'm glad you finally realize that it is easy , all you have to do is stay out the gray area that you liberals have created and live life for what it is either right or wrong.

as long as you keep feeding off the negative you will only spread negative.
in other words seamus you are what you eat.


Quote:
To reiterate your question for you. Why do you spend so much time here trying to control debate when you get nowhere?



i beg to differ mr. seamus . i have taken you for a ride and laughed the whole time. atleast i'm at work getting paid and laughing at your expense mr . seamus ....what have you lost or gained. 8)

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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 8:49 pm 
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Wow...you have to work on Saturday nights scrubbing those toilets, Buckyboots?

What happened? Did you bomb on this assignment, too? Can't you read the directions on the cleaning materials?

:lol:

Catherine

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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 1:58 am 
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Lil' Andy wrote:
thank you all for proving my point...... you know nothing about me but yet you keep posting lies like you do .

What point of yours have I proven Andy?
Lil' Andy wrote:

what do you really know seamus ,

This ought to be good. Nah... On the other hand it's just Mr. Buckshot. How much substance could there be?
Lil' Andy wrote:
let's see . you know for sure you don't like me , probably because i look for the truth and that just kills all your bullshit conspiracy theory's about bush,christians , and republicians.

It's not conspiracy theory buddy. We seem to have a lot of incredible coincidences that can't be explained away.

I'll give you one small example Andy. Why does Rev. Moon have so many friends in Washington? And why are they Republicans? Why have all of these Republican operatives sold their souls to the lunatic leader of a Cult who thinks he's god incarnate?

Answer that one for me that buddy.

Conspiracy theory Andy? No Andy, Conspiracy. That's what this site is all about; asking questions. Go on Andy, tell us all about Al Qaeda and how they hate our freedoms. Tell us how liberals and progressive are "un-American".

Lil' Andy wrote:
as far as a follower well in some ways i am mr. seamus i follow the truth and you seamus you are a nazi socialist .

I'm a Nazi Andy? How do you figure that? I question your fearless leader's policies? Critical thought makes me a "nazi socialist"? You've been reading that Mikey Savage crap again.
Lil' Andy wrote:
you hate america so much , just leave . your life revolves around searching out the negative and it dosen't really matter if it's true or not , you just feed off negative.

Tell me Andy, how did you come up with the absurd notion that I hate America? Are you reading minds again?

Why should I leave? I love my country. I don't want your buddies to turn it into a festering shithole.

I feed off "negative"? How's that Andy? I question the present political reality. I don't fall for the fantasy world you that you live in. Tell me how that makes me "negative"?

I'm negative because I don't believe in your fantasy? Okay, if you want to define negative as that, you're entitled. But I'll have to warn you once again. Your definition is purely subjective. It's more of your absolutism. Only your reality is valid. Reality doesn't work that way.

Lil' Andy wrote:
why don't you post something good for once.
your pitifull little excuse for being a lostleft liberal dosen't amount to squat.

You're babbling Andy.

How do you know what I amount to? You're making subjective value judgments based on your limited assessment of me. This "you're a pitiful excuse" nonsense is more projection on your part buddy. I can't do anything about your inadequacies. That's something you'll have to work out with your therapist.

I don't have to post good things. I post "good things" by questioning your nonsense. Your definition of "good things" and my definition of "good things" are not the same. Here we have you trotting out another of your subjective value judgments as an absolute. Your "good" is your absolute, as such it's relative and very much subjective. Your good is not necessarily everyone else's good.

Lil' Andy wrote:
you actually think i really give a rats ass what you or cathrine think about me.

Well no... Andy, what makes you think we care about what you think we think of you? Is this wishful thinking? Are you punishing us? This is more projection on your part.
Lil' Andy wrote:
you talk about control. well if you wasen't so thick headed you would realize i have been controling you all this time.

Gee Andy. Do you actually believe that you're controlling me? Did you ever stop to think that my whole purpose here has been to bust your balls?
Lil' Andy wrote:
every little piece of truth i post here i KNOW for a fact mr small minded seamus will reply , and all i do is sit back and laugh .

That's it Andy. It's every little piece of truth. The operative word here is little. You post very little truth.

And you "know" because you're on a first name basis with God. Or is that Jesus who personally tells you the truth about the political landscape? You vacillate back and forth on that. It's so hard to keep track. Claiming that you have all the facts because God tells you may work over at the 700 Club, but it's not going to prove anything here because that's faith. Try some critical thinking for a change.

I'm small minded, am I? And what do you base that bit of hyperbole on? The little voices in your head?

Lil' Andy wrote:
thats right mr. seamus i laugh . you have been controled.

I'm glad that you've kept yourself entertained Andy.

I've been controlled? There you go with that mind reading nonsense again. You obsess that others are obsessing over you. Aren't you the narcissist? Did you grow up believing that you shit gold as well? Once again Andy, you're projecting your inadequacies.

Lil' Andy wrote:

this should have taught you something seamus .

Yep... You've certainly taught me something. Sometimes, no matter how hard you try, you can't teach flying monkeys new tricks.
Lil' Andy wrote:
this is your life and i came in and controlled it, this is only a sideline laugh for me ,

Yes, your visits to this board are a sideline. It's sort of like you're mastery of the English language, a sideline. Perhaps if you spent more time on your English you'd accomplish something in your life on your own without projecting your fears onto someone else.

Andy, control is an illusion. In your case, your lack of control of others controls you.

This board isn't my life Bunny Pants. You're spending way too much time obsessing and projecting your inadequacies onto others.

Lil' Andy wrote:
at your expense, sorry about that.. :lol: i've been to other boards

It's been hardly at my expense buddy. You're the fool. It's so sad that you don't see that. I can't help you there. You own that.

Good for you Andy, you go to other boards. What is that non-sequitor about? Are we supposed to be impressed because you've learned some additional urls?

Here's another hand for you.

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Lil' Andy wrote:
and i see the same crap bush did this bush did that on and on , CRAP. if bush really done half that shit he would be impeached like that other low life of a president we had.

There's one problem with that theory Bucky. We have a Republican Congress. Do you think they'll impeach one of their own?

As far as your Republican buddies and President Clinton are concerned, all they could find was a personal peccadillo. "Perjury" when it concerns a personal indiscretion between consenting adults is hardly high crimes and misdemeanors. Our Republican public servants should be impeached for wasting the public's money and time for an absurd snipe hunt.

Lil' Andy wrote:
but like i said this is just humor...


I'll agree with you there. It's been humor at your expense. You can be quite entertaining. Wave to the lurkers out there. You're our pet Flying Monkey Wingnut. You're fun to have around.
Seamus originally wrote:
You are a follower because it's an easy way to go through life. There's none of that nasty gray area to worry about. Day in and day out it's the same old same old.

Lil' Andy wrote:
thats right mr. liberal day in day out . i know right from wrong. day in day out. i'm glad you finally realize that it is easy , all you have to do is stay out the gray area that you liberals have created and live life for what it is either right or wrong.

You know right from wrong? What? From GOP talking points? Or is this more of your "I've got God on my side" nonsense. It doesn't take much to be a good German or a Bushista for that matter. Don't make waves. Don't ask questions. Do your job and let the GOP do everything else.

There you go with that whole Manicheanism schtick again. Andy, you're a heretic! There are no absolutes.

Lil' Andy wrote:
as long as you keep feeding off the negative you will only spread negative.
in other words seamus you are what you eat.

I don't swallow any of your silly nonsense Bunny Pants. I'm safe there.
Seamus originally wrote:
To reiterate your question for you. Why do you spend so much time here trying to control debate when you get nowhere?

Lil' Andy wrote:
i beg to differ mr. seamus . i have taken you for a ride and laughed the whole time. atleast i'm at work getting paid and laughing at your expense mr . seamus ....what have you lost or gained.

You're entitled to beg to differ Andy. How have you taken me for a ride? How do you know I'm not getting paid to keep you busy? Hmmm? Perhaps this is my hobby. Batting around wingnuts is relaxing.

But you know Andy, I think we’ve caught you in a lie.

Earlier you had told us that you didn't have time to answer us because, and I quote, "some people have jobs"... And now your telling us that you're posting here on your mom and dad's dime at the family business.

How do you explain that Andy? Are mom and dad paying you to spread your illiteracy on the internet while you're supposed to be working at the restaurant?

Or are you just a fourth rate mendacious pest?

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Quote:
It's not conspiracy theory buddy. We seem to have a lot of incredible coincidences that can't be explained away


thats my point , mr.seamus.........no facts.every thread you blab is just that a conspiracy theory oh i'm sorry in your words it's called a incredible coincidence.

Quote:
I'll give you one small example Andy. Why does Rev. Moon have so many friends in Washington? And why are they Republicans? Why have all of these Republican operatives sold their souls to the lunatic leader of a Cult who thinks he's god incarnate?



well let's see first question.why does rev. Moon have so many friends in washington?
whats wrong with having friends seamus. is this a something you cannot accomplish so your against it.

second question.And why are they Republicans?
so you are 100% sure that all his friends are republician. wow . if they were whats your point ? so his friends . and i'm sure every last one of them just happen to be republician.and i'm sure you can prove this.i mean hey look at the incredible coincidence.


third question:Why have all of these Republican operatives sold their souls to the lunatic leader of a Cult who thinks he's god incarnate?
well mr.seamus how much did he pay for these souls. and now your telling me you know what this man thinks .oohh i'm getting scared now . stop it seamus next you will be telling me you have jedi forces.

Quote:
Tell me Andy, how did you come up with the absurd notion that I hate America? Are you reading minds again?


no mr.seamus i believe it's you that claims to read minds, you know your jedi forces and everything.

Quote:
How do you know what I amount to? You're making subjective value judgments based on your limited assessment of me


and you my jedi friend never do this :roll: yeah right, try another line.

Quote:
Well no... Andy, what makes you think we care about what you think we think of you? Is this wishful thinking? Are you punishing us? This is more projection on your part.


i wouldn't expect anything less from you seamus, and to think you have to live with yourself 24hrs a day. wow so much for such a little man.

Quote:
Gee Andy. Do you actually believe that you're controlling me? Did you ever stop to think that my whole purpose here has been to bust your balls?


when is this ball busting going to start , because right now i'm still laughing :lol:

Quote:
It's so hard to keep track.


this explains your ranting.

Quote:
Yep... You've certainly taught me something. Sometimes, no matter how hard you try, you can't teach flying monkeys new tricks.


i have already discussed this with you . don't put yourself down .. you can learn new tricks. just keep trying :| friend



Quote:
Andy, control is an illusion. In your case, your lack of control of others controls you.


lessons from the master jedi, i'll write it down and study it when monkeys fly.



Quote:
Hmmm? Perhaps this is my hobby. Batting around wingnuts is relaxing.


well mr.flying monkey jedi........

when are you planning to be good at this hobby of yours, maybe when monkeys fly. or maybe you are still waiting for some actual facts to back up your incredible coincidence. :lol:

Quote:
Earlier you had told us that you didn't have time to answer us because, and I quote, "some people have jobs"... And now your telling us that you're posting here on your mom and dad's dime at the family business.


more jedi tricks , and mind reading mr.seamus what do you know about my job, and what does my mom and dad have to do with this.your babbling.and what is this family business you speak of mr. seamus ....oh i guess it's just more incredible coincidence and this makes you a jedi master or something?

Quote:
How do you explain that Andy? Are mom and dad paying you to spread your illiteracy on the internet while you're supposed to be working at the restaurant?


what restaurant do you speak of jedi master, i don't work at a restaurant,wow more incredible coincidence .

so you see jedi seamus all this incredible coincidence floating around and you are wrong about all of it. and you say that i spread illiteracy or is it idiolicy .

[/quote]Or are you just a fourth rate mendacious pest?[quote]

is this a rank on your jedi army, must be where you started and just kinda got stuck there.

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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 8:45 am 
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Andy, now you're a Star Wars character?

Are you playing with your Action Figures? Do you make the light saber sound?

Wow...

Andy's learned ridicule... Tell me master. How does that work?

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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 8:53 am 
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Seamus originally wrote:
It's not conspiracy theory buddy. We seem to have a lot of incredible coincidences that can't be explained away

Lil' Andy wrote:
thats my point , mr.seamus.........no facts.every thread you blab is just that a conspiracy theory oh i'm sorry in your words it's called a incredible coincidence.


Andy, all you post is the same old drivel from NewsMax et al. You've yet to post verifiable fact, with the exception of misleading electoral college maps.

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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 9:07 am 
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Seamus originally wrote:
Tell me Andy, how did you come up with the absurd notion that I hate America? Are you reading minds again?

Lil' Andy wrote:
no mr.seamus i believe it's you that claims to read minds, you know your jedi forces and everything.


When did I claim to read your mind?

You said that I hated America. Support your claim with facts.

You "know" right from wrong. How do you "know" it?


Seamus originally wrote:
How do you know what I amount to? You're making subjective value judgments based on your limited assessment of me.


Lil' Andy wrote:
and you my jedi friend never do this :roll: yeah right, try another line.


Support your assertion Captain Bunny Pants.

What subjective value judgment did I make?

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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 9:29 am 
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Andy the Jedi wrote:
when are you planning to be good at this hobby of yours, maybe when monkeys fly. or maybe you are still waiting for some actual facts to back up your incredible coincidence.


Here you go buddy, here's some Moonie reference for you.

Andy please make note of the fact that these folks cite their sources and don't play games with fragmented quotes like some of the sources you're fond of.

John Gorenfeld backs his facts up.

http://www.iapprovethismessiah.com/

You can start with you Moonie Education there.

-or-

Cell Whitman's "Who's Driving The Bus".
http://cellwhitman.blogspot.com/2004/10 ... g-bus.html

Cell Whitman's Appendix has lots of little tidbits for you to read.

http://cellwhitman.blogspot.com/2004/10 ... -post.html

The Appendix is below.
===============================================
===============================================
Appendix A: Notes

(1) Sun Myung Moon, “Leaders Building a World of Peace.” This speech was given on August 24, 1992, at the Little Angels Performing Arts Center, Seoul, Korea, to those attending the World Culture and Sports Festival.

An excerpt from the speech: “In early July, I spoke in five cities around Korea at rallies held by the Women’s Federation for World Peace. There, I declared that my wife, WFWP President Hak Ja Han Moon, and I are the True Parents of all humanity. I declared that we are the Savior, the Lord of the Second Advent, the Messiah.” http://www.unification.org/ucbooks/Mspk ... 20824.html

Chung Hwan Kwak, current chairman, chief executive officer and president of the Moon owned United Press International (UPI). IIPC Consultation: Opening Remarks Chung Hwan KwakOctober 3, 2003: I will not be vague as I think many of you know that within our movement we refer to Rev. and Mrs. Moon as True Parents. This term is not only a term of honor for them, but represents a very important status in God's providence. What various religions have referred to as messiah, savior, anointed one, or the second coming, is included in the term True Parents. http://www.tparents.org/UNews/Unws0310/ ... t_kwak.htm

(2) United States House of Representatives. Investigation of Korean-American Relations, Report of the Subcommittee on International Relations of the Committee on International Relations (Fraser Report). October 31, 1978.

Scroll down here for a 43-page pdf file excerpt of the congressional investigation report. http://www.freedomofmind.com/resourcece ... m/moonies/

(3) “Hardball with Chris Matthews,” MSNBC, Aug. 18, 2003.

(4) Sun Myung Moon, “The Last Days are Coming to America.”Excerpted from an address given by Moon at his East Garden estate in Irvington, New York on September 13, 2002 to clergy planning the September 14, 2002 “blessing.” http://www.tparents.org/UNews/Unws0209/SM020913.htm

(5) Kim A. Lawton, “Unification Church Ties Haunt New Coalition - Are followers of Sun Myung Moon expanding their influence among conservative Christians?” Christianity Today, Feb. 5, 1988. An excerpt: At these meetings, "Godism" is touted as the means to defeat communism. According to the CAUSA Lecture Manual, Godism was developed by Moon "through extraordinary communication with God" and will unite all mankind, "for we are all the children of God" (CT, June 14, 1985, p. 55). http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2001/132/36.0.html

See also Sun Myung Moon, “The Time is Right for Godism.” Founder's Address of the Youth Federation for World Peace, 1994. http://www.tparents.org/Moon-Talks/sunm ... 940726.htm

(6) Fraser Report. (See #2.)

(7) Sun Myung Moon, “Significance of the Training Session.” A speech delivered by Moon on May 17, 1973. Third Directors' Conference, Master Speaks. Translated by: Mrs. Won Pok Choi. Excerpt: “If the U. S. continues its corruption, and we find among the senators and congressmen no one really usable for our purposes, we can make senators and congressmen out of our members.” http://www.tparents.org/Moon-Talks/sunm ... 730517.htm

(8 ) “FRONTLINE: The Resurrection Of Reverend Moon.” Eric Nadler, reporter. Written and produced by Rory O’Connor. Jan. 21, 1992 broadcast. Copyright (c)1991 WGBH Educational Foundation. Excerpt: “Narrator: But Moon's influence over the AFC (American Freedom Coalition) is underscored by this 1988 letter FRONTLINE obtained from a source who once worked within the Moon Organization. AFC President Robert Grant, writing to Reverend Moon, thanks him for investing heavily and “helping to bring the AFC into being.” Grant concludes by telling Moon, "Without your leadership, vision and the support of your devoted followers, the AFC would not exist.” http://www.mediachannel.org/originals/m ... ript.shtml

Sun Myung Moon speaks to the International Leaders' Conference January 2, 1992 Grand Ball Room, World Mission Center, New York Translator - Dr. Bo Hi Pak Dr. Pak then introduced Dr. Robert Grant as a man with a deep spiritual connection to Father. Dr. Grant then spoke about his work for God and the direction of the USA activities.
http://www.unification.net/1992/920102b.html

In addition, at a 1996 banquet in Buenos Aires to celebrate the launch of a Moon newspaper, former president George H.W. Bush praised Moon as “the man with the vision.” Full quote: “I want to salute Reverend Moon who is the founder of the Washington Times and of the new paper here,” said Bush, who was reported by the Washington Post to have been paid $100,000 for his Buenos Aires appearance.

“A lot of my friends in South America don't know about the Washington Times but it is an independent voice,” said Bush. “The editors of the Washington Times tell me that never once has the man with the vision interfered with the running of the paper, a paper that in my view brings sanity to Washington DC.” http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/8425/BUSHMOON.HTM

One year after Bush called Moon the “man with the vision" the Washington Post on Nov. 24, 1997 reported that Moon’s Washington Times Foundation donated $1 million to George Bush's presidential library in Texas. http://www.consortiumnews.com/archive/moon7.html

See also: “A Church in Flux Is Flush With Cash” By Marc Fisher and Jeff Leen Washington Post Staff Writers Sunday, November 23, 1997; Page A01 Excerpt: Other groups get quick infusions of cash for special projects. Gifts and contributions to the Women's Federation for World Peace, for example, soared to $10.7 million in 1995. The federation sponsored a series of speeches by George and Barbara Bush in Asia and the United States, with total fees estimated at about $1 million. ... Bush (George H.W. Bush) spokesman Jim McGrath said the ex-president "strongly believes in the mission" of Moon's federations, but "has no relationship with Moon." McGrath said all of Bush's appearances have been arranged through Wesley Pruden, editor in chief of the Washington Times. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/na ... n/main.htm

(9) Robert Parry, “Dark Side of Rev. Moon: Buying the Right.” Consortium, 1997. http://www.consortiumnews.com/archive/moon3.html

(10) John B. Judis, “Rev. Moon’s Rising Political Influence - His empire is spending big money trying to win favor with conservatives.” U.S. News & World Report, March 27, 1989.

(11) Workshop on Journalism and Media.Excerpted from a speech given by Sun Myung Moon to workshop participants at the Sheraton National Hotel in Washington, D.C. on May 30, 2003. Notes by M. Herbers and M. Jenkins. Translated by J. Hong. http://www.tparents.org/Moon-Talks/SunM ... 030530.htm

(12) Fraser Report. (See # 2).Excerpt from the 1978 congressional report: In many public statements and in applications for tax-exempt status, the goals of the Moon movement are said to be religious. Actions which appeared to be clearly political or economic to outsiders were explained as necessary means to achieve religious goals. The apparent contradictions in many of the activities of the Moon Organization are explained by Moon's overriding religious goal--to establish a worldwide "theocracy," that is, a world order which would abolish separation of church and state and be governed by the immediate direction of God. As Moon explained to his followers: … In the Medieval Ages, they had to separate from the cities--statesmanship from the religious field--because people were corrupted at that time. But when it comes to our age, we must have an automatic theocracy to rule the world. So, we cannot separate the political field from the religious…Separation between religion and politics is what Satan likes most.

(13) “cannot separate the political field from the religious.” Fraser Report. (See #2.)

also from Fraser: Alan Tate Wood, a former UC member who had been president of the FLF, described to the subcommittee some of Moon's political ambitions and activities. He said that Moon, through the UC and its numerous front organizations, wanted to acquire enough influence in America to be able to "dictate policy on major issues, to influence legislation, and move into electoral politics."In the United States, the political goals of the UC and those of the KCIA "overlap so thoroughly as to display no difference at all." Wood also charged that Moon was violating U.S. laws by importing aliens to raise funds and that fundraising by UC members was often done under false pretenses.

(14) “The Secret Sayings of Master Moon.” Time, June 14, 1976, pg. 49.

(15) Carla Binion, “Why is TV news ignoring the relationship between Moon and the Bush family?” Online Journal, Feb. 22, 2001. http://www.rickross.com/reference/unif/unif112.html

(16) “FRONTLINE: The Resurrection Of Reverend Moon.” Eric Nadler, reporter. Written and produced by Rory O’Connor. Jan. 21, 1992 broadcast. Copyright (c)1991 WGBH Educational Foundation. http://www.mediachannel.org/originals/m ... ript.shtml

(17) Hyo Jin Moon, “Restoration Through Indemnity.” Excerpted from a speech by Hyo Jin Moon, Belvedere, New York, Aug. 18, 1991. http://www.tparents.org/Moon-Talks/hyoj ... 910818.htm

Sun Myung Moon speaks on the Unification Church and the land and the sea. June 1, 1991 Belvedere, New York Translator Col. Sang Kil Han By the same token Christianity needs the same overhaul, the same thing. Christianity in America alone will never amount to anything and they know that as well as we do. We have to revive them. Ron Godwin, Robert Grant and Donald Sills and Dr. Pak formed a revival group. They all agreed. Last Friday, Father went to Washington and persuaded them. Each one understood. They will lead the revival of American Christianity. http://www.unification.net/1991/910601.html

(18 ) Kim A. Lawton, “Unification Church Ties Haunt New Coalition - Are followers of Sun Myung Moon expanding their influence among conservative Christians?” Christianity Today, Feb. 5, 1988. http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2001/132/36.0.html

(19) U.S. News & World Report (see #10) and Parry, “Dark Side of Rev. Moon,” (see #9). From Parry: By the mid-1980s, Moon’s Unification Church had carved out a niche as an acceptable part of the American right. In one speech to his followers, Moon boasted that “without knowing it, even President Reagan is being guided by Father (Moon).”Yet, Moon also made clear that his longer-range goal was the destruction of the U.S. Constitution and America’s democratic form of government. “History will make the position of Reverend Moon clear, and his enemies, the American population and government will bow down to him.” Moon said, speaking of himself in the third person. “That is Father’s tactic, the natural subjugation of the American government and population.” http://www.consortiumnews.com/archive/moon3.html

(20) Hyo Jin Moon, “Restoration Through Indemnity.” (See #17.)

(21) “Religious Leaders Say: Oppose The ‘Houses Of Worship Free Speech Restoration Act’ H.R. 235.” Episcopal Public Policy Network, Episcopal Church Office of Government Relations, The Episcopal Church, USA, February 28, 2003. http://arc.episcopalchurch.org/eppn/pub ... _HR235.asp

(22) Fraser Report. (See #2.)

(23) Episcopal Public Policy Network. (See #21.)

(24) U.S. News & World Report (see #10) and Parry, Dark Side of Rev. Moon (see # 9).

(25) Rob Boston, “Moon Shadow - With Help From Congressional Republicans And The Bush ‘Faith-Based’ Initiative, Controversial Korean Evangelist Sun Myung Moon Is Trying To Expand His Religious-Political Empire.” Americans United for Separation of Church and State, June 2001.http://www.au.org/site/News2?page=NewsA ... 4&abbr=cs_

(26) Boston, “Moon Shadow.” (See #25.)

(27) Binion, “Why is TV news ignoring the relationship between Moon and the Bush family?” (See #15.)

(28 ) Judis, “Rev. Moon’s Rising Political Influence - His empire is spending big money trying to win favor with conservatives.” (See #10.)

(29) Robert Parry, “Dark Side of Rev. Moon: Buying the Right.” http://www.freedomofmind.com/stevehassa ... parry1.htm

(30) Carolyn Weaver, “Unholy Alliance.” Mother Jones, Jan. 1986. From an audiotape uncovered by Weaver of a letter dictated by Tim LaHaye. Transcript of the entire letter from Tim LaHaye to Bo Hi Pak may be found here: http://tinyurl.com/3rolo

(31) “The Secret Sayings of Master Moon.” Time. (See #14.)

(32) Fraser Report. (See #2.)

(33) John Gorenfeld, “Bad Moon on the rise - Overcoming his church’s bizarre reputation and his own criminal record, the Rev. Sun Myung Moon has cemented ties with the Bush administration -- and gained government funding for his closest disciples.” Salon, Sept. 24, 2003.http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2003/ ... ex_np.html

(34) John Gorenfeld, “This really happened at the Senate office building.” Where in Washington, D.C. is Sun Myung Moon? June 13, 2004. http://tinyurl.com/48w8g

See also “Moon Over Washington: Why are some of the capital’s most influential power players hanging out with a bizarre Korean billionaire who claims to be the Messiah?” Gadflyer by John Gorenfeld, June 9, 2004. http://gadflyer.com/articles/?ArticleID=131

For additional and recent information on Moon’s organization please see Gorenfeld’s blog. http://www.iapprovethismessiah.com/

(35) Sun Myung Moon, “True Day Of All Things And The Initiator Of Harmony.” An address by Moon at the Belvedere International Training Center, June 5, 1997. Translator: Mr. Peter Kim. http://www.tparents.org/Moon-Talks/sunm ... 970605.htm

(36) Robert G. Kaiser and Ira Chinoy, “Scaife: Funding Father of the Right.” Washington Post, Sunday, May 2, 1999, pg. A1. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/po ... 050299.htm

(37) Dante Chinni, “The Other Paper – The Washington Times' Role.” Columbia Journalism Review, 2002. Excerpt: Pruden says Moon hasn’t visited the Times in at least a year, and doesn’t pressure him editorially. Still, it is Moon’s largess that keeps the Times afloat. Exact numbers on the privately owned paper are hard to get, but published reports indicate Moon has sunk nearly $2 billion into the Times. http://archives.cjr.org/year/02/5/chinni.asp

(38 ) Bo Hi Pak, “Greetings from the Chain of the Washington Times.” A speech by Bo Hi Pak, May 16, 1991. Truth Is My Sword Volume I – Collected Speeches in the Public Arena. http://www.tparents.org/library/unifica ... ms1-55.htm

(39) Fraser Report. (See #2.)

(40) John Gorenfeld, “Bad Moon on the Rise.” Salon, Sept. 24, 2003. Excerpt: Along the way, he has been able to gain acceptance by the most powerful people in the country, surely with the help of his media mini-empire -- including the UPI wire service and the right-wing newspapers Tiempos del Mundo, in South America, and the Washington Times, which he runs at losses well into the tens of millions every year. His exorbitant spending on politicians, largely conservative, hasn't hurt either; his Washington Times foundation gave $1 million to the George H.W. Bush presidential library and has paid the former president untold amounts in speaking fees. http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2003/09/24/moon/

See also the Washington Post story of July 27, 1990 by Peter Maass in which Moon's mouthpiece and top aide Pak admits to losses of $35 million per year. Excerpt: Pak said that the newspaper has lost about $250 million since its founding eight years ago, and he estimates that it continues to lose $35 million a year.

(41) Sun Myung Moon, “Sun Myung Moon speaks on our mission during the time of the World Transition.” A speech given by Moon at Belvedere, Tarrytown, New York on Dec. 23, 1991. Translator: Col. San Kil Han. Excerpt: Look at the Washington Times. No one in America helped to create that. Without Father’s guidance for the Washington Times, this country couldn’t have found a direction. Literally nine hundred million to one billion dollars has been spent to activate and run the Washington Times. Did we make any part of this money and give it to Father, saying, “Father, please use this to continue the Washington Times”? The world thinks it is true that Reverend Moon really exploited young Americans by making them go out and sell flowers. The amount of money that American members raised was not even enough to support themselves with food and shelter every day. Father brought tons of money to this country to accomplish his goals. http://www.unification.net/1991/911223.html

(42) Chinni, Columbia Journalism Review. (See #37.)

(43) Joseph Farah's “Radio Active” radio show interview with John Gorenfeld. June 15, 2004.

(44) Jesse J. Holland, Associated Press, “Some Moderate Republicans Criticize Bush.” phillyBurbs.com, August 29, 2004. http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/ ... 57325.html

“Come Back to the Mainstream” information at http://www.backtothemainstream.org/

(45) “Once-generous Japanese become disenchanted with Moon's church.”By Kevin Sullivan and Mary Jordan, Washington Post, 4 August 1996, p. A01 Excerpt: In the decade that followed, Fukasawa became a key cog in the Japanese fund-raising machinery that is a central source of the church's financial might and its high-profile activities in the United States. Church officials say that they raise $400 million a year here and that followers worldwide have invested more than $1 billion in the United States in the last 20 years, including more than $800 million in the Washington Times newspaper. ….Oe said Unification Church doctrine requires Japan to bankroll church activities. He said South Korea is "Adam's country," Japan is "Eve's country" and the other countries where the church has followers are their offspring. "Japan is mother and wife," Oe said. "So Japan has the mission to support her husband and raise her children." http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/55a/018.html

See also “Moon’s Japanese Profits Bolster Efforts in U.S.” By John Burgess and Michael Isikoff, Washington Post, Sunday, September 16, 1984; Page A01. Excerpt: Exhorted by pep talks to meet "the respected father's" needs, Japanese church members have worked in recent years under sales quotas requiring them to transfer to the United States roughly $2.5 million a month earmarked for The Times, Soejima said. "The Washington Times was the top priority of the entire Unification Church worldwide," said Soejima, who was editor of Sekai Nippo (World Daily News), a church-controlled Tokyo newspaper, before being fired last October following a dispute with church officials over control of the paper. .....Handwritten notes that Soejima made at some church finance meetings indicate that the Japanese church was taking in more than $100 million a year during 1981 and 1982, most of which was transferred to church headquarters in New York. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/na ... profit.htm

See also “Church Spends Millions On Its Image” By Michael Isikoff Washington Post Staff Writer Monday, September 17, 1984; Page A01 Excerpt: …the Japanese branch of the Rev. Sun Myung Moon's Unification Church has transferred at least $800 million over the past nine years into the United States to finance the church's political activities and business operations, including The Washington Times newspaper, according to two former high-ranking church officials. This money is generated in Japan, primarily through a Tokyo-based business operation that uses church members to sell marble vases, miniature treasure pagodas and other religious icons that are represented as having supernatural powers, the former officials said. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-rv/nat ... /image.htm

See also “Sun Myung Moon speaks on our mission during the time of the World Transition.” December 23, 1991 Belvedere, Tarrytown. New York Translator - Col. San Kil Han. Excerpt: The amount of money that American members raised was not even enough to support themselves with food and shelter every day. Father brought tons of money to this country to accomplish his goal. http://www.unification.net/1991/911223.html

See also the Fraser Report: Several persons interviewed by the subcommittee staff stated that prominent Moon Organization figures had admitted bringing in large amounts of cash from Japan by concealing it on their persons. Since 1972, U.S. law has required that all persons moving cash in excess of $5,000 in or out of the country fill out a Treasury report. Japan has similar requirements, as well as limitations on converting yen to other currencies.

(46) “The Activities of the Unification Church in Japan.” National Network of Lawyers Against the Spiritual Sales, a group of 300 Japanese lawyers representing plaintiffs against the Unification Church in Japan since the 1980s. Excerpt from the Network’s website: All day long, they (Unification Church members) are forced to do fund-raising by committing illegal acts such as swindling through a fraudulent missionary (sic) work and spiritual sales. They are taught to “Believe and die, and live for Sun Myung Moon,” and they believe that by deceiving people to come to the church, intimidating people and making them pay money, will save the people and themselves in the spiritual world. The problem with the missionary activities of the Unification Church is that they first invite people by hiding their identity as the Unification Church and a religion, and then to do mind control by cleverly threatening. http://www1k.mesh.ne.jp/reikan/eactivi.htmfrom: http://www1k.mesh.ne.jp/reikan/english/index-e.htm

See also “Once-generous Japanese become disenchanted with Moon’s church .” By Kevin Sullivan and Mary Jordan, Washington Post, 4 August 1996, p. A01. http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/55a/018.html Excerpt: Masuo Oe, the church’s chief spokesman in Japan, says its Japanese operations are healthier than ever and are still raising more than $400 million a year in donations here -- surpassing the amount raised in the heyday of Japan's booming economy in the mid-1980s. …

A much different portrait of the church’s financial health in Japan emerges in interviews with dozens of former church members, their attorneys and analysts who have investigated the Unification Church, as well as in hundreds of pages of documents filed in Japanese courts. Each of these sources says the church’s immense fund-raising machine in Japan has faltered. It has slipped largely because of intense scrutiny from the media and civic watchdogs, and an ever-increasing number of complaints and lawsuits filed against the church and its members. http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/55a/018.html

(47) National Network of Lawyers Against the Spiritual Sales. (See #46.)

Excerpt from the roughly-translated English version of the Network’s website (spelling corrected for clarity): The Spiritual Sales is a wicked sales conducted by the “Holy Spirit Association for the Unification of World Christianity” (“Unification Church” hereafter) for gaining money for its activities. The typical ways of doing this are as follows…Approaching the citizens through individual door-to-door visitations or in the downtown area while hiding its identity as the Unification Church “Please cooperate in the questionnaire for the study of the youths’ consciousness.” “I am studying palm reading.” “There are lines in your hand which tell that you are in the transition period.” They draw out the worries, unfortunate happenings in the family and check the financial situation...Through such an approach, they trick the people into buying a seal stamp (hanko) or a sosary, at home, coffee shop, or apartment room, by threatening them for long hours saying, "In order to free you from the fateful destiny of ancestors…” This costs about 100,000 yen and up to 2 million yen… Until 1987, in addition to the above-mentioned tactics, they made people buy marble jar (a few million to ten million yen), Shakato (4.4 million yen), Korai Jinsen (Korean ginseng) extract (essence, concentrated) (80,000 yen per bottle, of which some bought over100 bottles).

By saying, "A very prominent mentor who can see the spiritual world will take time especially to meet you,” they tempt people to come to a sacred place, and by using the worries they had learned of in advance, say, “If you leave it the way it is now, your parents will die soon...your children will become sick ...your husband will have an affair...you won't be able to have a happy marriage. And these are because your ancestors have committed murder, have had affairs, etc.” They continue to bluff and intimidate people for hours…After 1988, the followers were continuously imposed upon with a quota and were selling Jinsen (ginseng) extracts. However, recently, they are making people buy Buddha statues and family trees for a few million yen by using the same threatening words, and forcing them to make all their savings into an offering… In addition, they use tactics which violate the door-to-door sales law by making people buy items such as jewelry, kimonos, and paintings at exorbitant prices in a very forcible manner…The amount of offerings Sun Myung Moon orders to be collected from the Japanese followers every month through the Japanese senior officials is enormous. In 1986 and 1987, the amount was as high as 10 billion yen every month, and, in about 1990, it was still a few billion yen every month. In order to fulfill the assigned task, the followers who have jobs are forced to make loans of approximately 1 million yen from a number of financial institutions.

In addition, housewives who have real estate and old aged people living alone have been forced to make offerings in the amount of tens and hundreds of million yen by intimidation. They have also been made to borrow money from financial institutions on the security of real estates, which are then taken by the Unification Church. This kind of debts are received with increasing debts and without any repayment, there are many citizens who are in trouble…A part of the victims of the Spiritual Sales have come to us lawyers and consumer counselors of the government bodies. The total number of victims has soared and the damages are high. The true figure of victimized citizens, however, is assumed to be over ten times more than what is recognized, for the fear of bad luck from ancestors and repercussions from the Unification Church. http://www1k.mesh.ne.jp/reikan/eactivi.htm From: http://www1k.mesh.ne.jp/reikan/english/index-e.htm

(48 ) For information on the many court rulings in Japan involving the Unification Church, see the National Network of Lawyers Against the Spiritual Sales website pages: http://www1k.mesh.ne.jp/reikan/english/index-e.htm

Excerpt from the Network’s pages: Judgment by the Fukuoka District Court on the Unification Church. The Court recognized that the Unification Church as a religious corporate body did perpetrate unlawful acts against plaintiffs ‘A’ and ‘B’. In addition to corporate liability, the Court also holds the employees of the Unification Church liable for the actions of the church corporate body. The Court ruling has set a new, epoch-making legal precedent for future District Court decisions. At the time of this writing, the Unification Church has appealed the District Court decision to the Fukuoka High Court. http://www1k.mesh.ne.jp/reikan/english/ ... /fuku1.htm

Excerpt from Lawyer's Network website’s “Representation” page: Over the 14 years since 1987, more than 20,000 people have claimed sums totaling 800 million dollars. http://www1k.mesh.ne.jp/reikan/english/ ... resent.htm

From: http://www1k.mesh.ne.jp/reikan/english/index-e.htm

For the complete 20 April 1999 National Network of Lawyers Against the Spiritual Sales report see: “Moonies in Japan.” Steven Alan Hassan’s Freedom of Mind Center, (home page http://www.freedomofmind.com/ ). http://tinyurl.com/39ejt

Excerpt: According to figures compiled by the National Network of Lawyers Against the Spiritual Sales, between 1987 and 1998, a total of 19,689 cases were reported. The total sum of damages claimed in the cases totaled 74,676,016,952 yen. Using the date of the report (04/20/99) for a conversion date and this conversion tool: http://www.oanda.com/convert/classic They are saying between 1987 and 1998 the amount claimed from 19,689 cases is 74676016952 Japanese Yen = 632,901,248 US Dollars. That is $632 million on claims filed for a ten year period. (More has been claimed since.) The report adds this comment taking into account that many people were likely ashamed to come forward and that Japan is not a litigious society. “However, most certainly this sum is only a fraction of all real damages incurred by people in Japan as a result of Unification Church activities.” The report also states that from about 1975, the Church was able to pocket enormous sums of money by their spiritual sales strategies, i.e. by selling ginseng extract and marble urns. Many sources concur that between 1975 and 1985 the Unification Church in Japan remitted 5-10 billion yen each month to Sun Myung Moon.

Using a mid-point June 30, 1980 as a conversion date--when a million dollars was something to be gawked at, 5,000,000,000 Japanese Yen = 22,990,620 US Dollars 10000000000 Japanese Yen = 45,981,240 US Dollars

They are saying Japan sent Moon’s organization roughly between 23 and 46 million a month for ten years. That’s between 275 to 550 million a year from Japan between 1975 and 1985.Using this inflation calculator: http://www.westegg.com/inflation/ and adjusting those 1980 figures to the report's date, 1999, the figures per year adjusted for inflation in 1999 would be: low estimate of $275 million a year in 1980 would be 612 million and on the high end would be $1.22 billion per year from Japan to Moon between 1975-85.

From the Japanese Lawyer's Network quoted in note 47 above: The total number of victims has soared and the damages are high. The true figure of victimized citizens, however, is assumed to be over ten times more than what is recognized, for the fear of bad luck from ancestors and repercussions from the Unification Church. (based on the Lawyers figure of $800,000,000 in claims, that would mean that the Moon organization made $8 billion from running these cons in Japan.)

(49) Kevin Sullivan, “Widow Pays Church to End Husband’s ‘Suffering in Hell.’” Washington Post, Sunday, August 4, 1996; Page A30. Excerpt: In June 1988, four months after her husband died, Nakajima went with several church members to an apartment, where she met a man who appeared to be praying. He told her: “Your husband is suffering in hell. Your husband desires [about $500,000]. But your husband says that at the least he wants you to donate [about $300,000].” http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/na ... /widow.htm

See also, Kevin Sullivan and Mary Jordan, “Once-generou0111s Japanese become disenchanted with Moon’s church.” Washington Post, 4 August 1996, p. A01. Excerpt: Fukasawa said she was taught by church members that the key to successful fund-raising was choosing the right people to target. She said church members were told to focus mainly on housewives, women over 30 who appeared to have some money. Once at the door, she said she pretended to read palms and flattered the person at the door at every opportunity. “When we felt someone was a good target, it could be very exciting,” she said. "The key was to get inside the house. If we got inside, we felt we won the battle." http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/55a/018.html

(50) John Burgess and Michael Isikoff, “Moon’s Japanese Profits Bolster Efforts in U.S.” Washington Post, Sunday, Sept. 16, 1984, pg. A01. Excerpt: The Japanese branch of the Rev. Sun Myung Moon’s Unification Church has transferred at least $800 million over the past nine years into the United States to finance the church’s political activities and business operations, including The Washington Times newspaper, according to two former high-ranking church officials. This money is generated in Japan, primarily through a Tokyo-based business operation that uses church members to sell marble vases, miniature treasure pagodas and other religious icons that are represented as having supernatural powers, the former officials said. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/na ... profit.htm

(51) Robert Parry, “Mysterious Republican Money.” Consortium News, Sept. 7, 2004. http://www.consortiumnews.com/2004/090704.html

(52) Martin Stott, “Moon Ban and Religious Freedom.” Religionnewsblog.com, a BBC report May 30, 2004. Excerpt: The Reverend Sun Myung Moon has failed in his latest attempt to lift the ban on him coming to Britain. Secretary, David Blunkett, believes a visit from the 84-year-old leader of the Unification Church – or Moonies – would revitalise the movement in Britain and lead to “undesirable methods of recruitment”. A recent appeal to the immigration authority adjudicator to overturn his decision has been rejected. http://www.religionnewsblog.com/7476-Mo ... eedom.html

See also: Germany - International Religious Freedom Report 2004, Released by the Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor. Excerpt: The Federal Interior Ministry continued its immigration exclusion (refusal to issue a visitor visa) against the founder of the Unification Church, Reverend Sun Myung Moon, and his wife, Hak Ja Har Moon. The couple have been refused entry to the country (and through Schengen Treaty visa ineligibility, to other Schengen countries as well) since 1995, when the Chief Office for Border Security issued a notice of refusal of entry for an initial period of 3 years. The Government refused entry based on its characterization of Reverend Moon and his wife as leaders of a “cult” that endangers the personal and social development of young persons. Citing this original justification, the Government extended its refusal of entry for another 2 years in August 2002 and was the only Schengen country to do so. http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2004/35456.htm

See also 2000 Annual Report on International Religious Freedom: Czech Republic. Released by the Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor, U.S. Department of State, Sept. 5, 2000. Excerpt: One group, the Unification Church (UC), was denied registration in January 1999 when the Department of Churches determined that it had obtained the required proof of membership by fraud; the UC is contesting the decision in court. http://www.uscirf.gov/dos00Pages/irf_cz ... mode=print

See also U.S. Department of State Annual Report on International Religious Freedom for 1999: Central African Republic. Released by the Bureau for Democracy, Human Rights and Labor, Sept. 9, 1999. Excerpt: The Government continued during the period covered by this report to refuse to reregister the previously registered and subsequently banned Unification Church. The Government does not register traditional indigenous religious groups. .... Any religious or nonreligious group that the Government considers subversive is subject to sanctions. The Ministry of Interior may decline to register, suspend the operations of, or ban any organization that it deems offensive to public morals or likely to disturb the peace. The Government has banned the Unification Church since the mid-1980’s as a subversive organization likely to disturb the peace, specifically in connection with alleged paramilitary training of young church members. However, the Government imposed no new sanctions on any religious group during the period covered by this report.http://www.uscirf.gov/dos99Pages/irf_ca ... mode=print

(53) Kenneth D. MacHarg, “Venezuela Restricts Unification Church.” Christianity Today, Nov. 17, 1997. http://www.rickross.com/reference/unif/Unif27.html

(54) “Chilean gov’t calls Moon sect dangerous to society.” countrywatch.com,June 7, Santiago. (EFE)http://www.countrywatch.com/@school/as_wire.asp?vCOUNTRY=036&UID=1121925 See also http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rnrs/message/2434

_________________
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."
--John Kenneth Galbraith


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