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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 10:47 pm 
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War Plan

ü Remove Saddam from power.
Points of interest: July 22, 2003 Uday and Qusay Hussein, reduced to carcasses: December 13, 2003, Saddam captured.

ü Establish interim government.
Point of interest: March 8, 2004 interim constitution signed by Iraqi Governing Council.

▪ Permanently establish democratic government. In progress.
Points of interest: June 28 governmental power officially transferred back to Iraqis. June 30, 2005 National Assembly elections held. August 28, 2005 National Assembly is given constitution written by Iraqi leaders. October 25, 2005 Iraqi constitution approved by national vote.

▪ Continue to support fledgling democracy via, among other things, military presence until Iraqi government and security forces stabilized and capable of providing for themselves. In progress.

Additional intelligence: Parmigiana Reggiano cheese takes 2-5 years to produce. That’s right, now we’re talking about cheese. The two-year stuff is inferior to the five year. Often a better end result is achieved by deliberate patience. Like the establishment of stability in Iraq, making cheese is a process, not a project. It goes like this. The farmer milks the cows. The cheese maker gets the best milk and warms it then adds an enzyme to coagulate it. Just as the Iraqi people have coalesced. The mass of coagulated milk is then cut into curds, no pun intended, but that probably went right over your head. The curds are sort of like the disagreements between the Shiite and Sunni. After a long stay in a hot kettle whirling around and bumping into each other, the curds are molded and pressed into one cohesive mass. From there the fragile new cheese is aged up to five years and its unique character and flavor develops. Just like the Iraqi people will, with freedom serving as the mold and regardless of any set time frame finally stick together, control their country and develop a unique and respected democracy.

So it takes five years to create a respectable inanimate object and the cows, the indispensable player in the process, don’t have opinions, politics, propaganda or short-sighted liberal rabble rousers misusing terms like treason and mendacity and making the cheese makers’ job twice as hard by calling for an end to cheese production without the faintest concern that all that grazing, cud chewing, teat tugging and ultimately milk will be infested by any old willy-nilly bacteria that crosses over the border from Iran, I mean is in the vicinity.

Without patience there’s no cheese, just a great big nasty, stinking mess that will kill you if it gets in your system. With patience, five years gets you something good. Five long years and its easier for cows because they don’t have arrogant leftist liberals rewriting history and messing with a recipe that so far, if its given the right amount of time looks like it may turn out to be something pretty good on spaghetti and cows don’t have little heifers like you trotting around regurgitating crap and whining “But I want a stinking mess now daddy”.

So there you have it sister. Life isn’t a field of alfalfa and daisies or one long trip to the mall with your mother’s gold card. Barring you, if cows could talk they’d say to take the time and do it right. I can hear it now, ‘how do you know what a cow would say’ and you’d have a point. You just remember this missy; cows didn’t make “Got Scotch?” their secret password or put ketchup all over an intelligence sandwich to make it taste like chicken.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:49 pm 
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Bucky, you asked for someone to prove that George W. Bush LIED.

I did that. I PROVED TO YOU THAT GEORGE W. BUSH LIED! You wanted it, you got it chump.

Address those two blatant LIES by George W. Bush.

Bucky never responds to my posts. Apparently he is afraid of me, HE IS A COWARD.

Catherine, maybe you could shame Bucky into addressing my points about Bush's lies.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 12:32 am 
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Bucky's too brainless to be shamed into believing the truth, Shoe. He chooses to believe the Bush lies because that is the only way he can remain as he is...otherwise, he'd have to change and he's not capable of doing that. It would take him out of his comfort zone, and he's not going to give that up. :roll:

What irks me more is that bucky uses Jesse's liberal, leftist website, bought and paid for by Jesse, to try to advance the cause of Bush and the rightwing Neocons, which is just the opposite of what Jesse wants TVNL to do. If Jesse wasn't so tolerant, bucky would've been long gone. Like the leech and moocher he is, bucky has no shame about that, either.

Bucky should start his own website and pay for it himself rather than mooching off of Jesse and his patient goodwill. :evil:

We've all shown bucky the truth many, many times, but he's just too dense. We can't rebrain him. We can't instill integrity in him, either. He doesn't know the meaning of the word. bucky's little brain just can't grasp what it all means...another way he identifies with Bush, his hero. :roll:

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:04 am 
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Catherine wrote:

What irks me more is that bucky uses Jesse's liberal, leftist website, bought and paid for by Jesse, to try to advance the cause of Bush and the rightwing Neocons, which is just the opposite of what Jesse wants TVNL to do.

Catherine


Catherine, Bucky has value in that he shows the shallow blindness of those who still support this dishonest, corrupt regime. His cowardice in the face of of Bush's lies validates the position of those of us who trumpet the truth.

Bucky asked for PROOF THAT BUSH LIED. He got that proof, and now he refuses to acknowlege such.

Bucky is a scared little child. The truth frightens him.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 3:17 pm 
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Bucky asked for PROOF THAT BUSH LIED. He got that proof, and now he refuses to acknowlege such.


Right...and bucky thinks that is ok because he also approves of Bush doing the same thing. As I've said before, bucky "identifies" with Bush because of his own lack of morals. He "approves" of Bush because Bush is on a similar intellectual level, too. :roll:

:munky2:

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 4:35 pm 
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Catherine wrote:
He "approves" of Bush because Bush is on a similar intellectual level, too. :roll:

:munky2:

Catherine


:lol: I can't figure out who you are insulting here. Bucky or Bush?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 5:38 pm 
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Bucky is either a) automised or b) site-hopping .

Either way, Bucky is not to be taken serious, not worth the time, the effort or the discussion.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 9:51 pm 
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Quote:
Bucky's too brainless to be shamed into believing the truth,


and just what is the truth cathrine ? if just 1% of that bullshit that you spew was true bush would have been impeached like that dumbass clinton.

Quote:
He chooses to believe the Bush lies because that is the only way he can remain as he is...otherwise, he'd have to change and he's not capable of doing that. It would take him out of his comfort zone, and he's not going to give that up.


again where are all the bush lies ? and yes i remain in my position , i'm not like the flip flop democraps that you support.and no i'm not going to give up my confort zone , because i'm greatful and proud to be an american with a great president.

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What irks me more is that bucky uses Jesse's liberal, leftist website,


so you admit ..NOW.. that this is a lefty only forum , so i guess when you said it wasn't long ago that was just another lie. also why does the link to the forum called disagree . well cathy i freakin disagree .

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bought and paid for by Jesse, to try to advance the cause of Bush and the rightwing Neocons, which is just the opposite of what Jesse wants TVNL to do.


so your admitting that jesse . or maybe i should say that you are speaking for him and saying that jesse is not searching for the truth and this website is only here to make up lies or whatever it takes to make the president look bad. thats pathetic cathy and unamerican.

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bucky would've been long gone. Like the leech and moocher he is, bucky has no shame about that, either.


long gone ..hu why is that cathy .maybe becauce i shovel your bullshit back at you. no i have no shame in that. by the what is the url for the website that is bought and paid for by you . oh no don't tell me that you are mooching off of jesse. shame shame

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Bucky should start his own website and pay for it himself rather than mooching off of Jesse and his patient goodwill.


show me your url and i'll show you mine. :roll:

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We've all shown bucky the truth many, many times,


ha , ha , ha , don't make me puke.

Quote:
We can't rebrain him.


what rebrain me like yourself an idiot or nazi howard dean.

Quote:
I PROVED TO YOU THAT GEORGE W. BUSH LIED!


well take it to the supreme court dumbass, see how far your bullshit lies get you. make a citizens arrest barney. :roll:

Quote:
Either way, Bucky is not to be taken serious, not worth the time, the effort or the discussion


yes left nuts run from the truth , run . ban the republician ban him call him names run him off he's making us look like the dumbass we are.

ha :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 10:03 pm 
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shoeless wrote:
I PROVED TO YOU THAT GEORGE W. BUSH LIED!


buckshot wrote:
well take it to the supreme court dumbass, see how far your bullshit lies get you. make a citizens arrest barney. :roll:


You are the one who asked for proof that Bush LIES. I showed you two monumental LIES by Bush which you ignored because you cannot defend them.

"We do not torture."

That is a LIE.

"The House and Senate had the same intelligence."

That is a LIE.

You are too much of a coward to even address those obvious LIES by George W. Bush. You cannot refute Bush's LIES, so you cower from them.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 10:23 pm 
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Quote:
"We do not torture."


who the hell is "we" i've never seen or heard of any story where bush tortured people. and really i do not think you know what real torture is.you are on saddams side , now there is a master of torture . if you really cared about torture why don't you talk about the real torture by sadaam and his hinchmen and al quadi also don't forget about the be-headings. so if you were really concerned about people world wide you would support bush and be proud of all the people that were saved by bush.


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"The House and Senate had the same intelligence."


they did just because a few stupid democrats didn't read it . don't make up bullshit.

Harry Reid Didn’t Read Prewar Intel Report
by Amanda B. Carpenter
Posted Nov 18, 2005



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Simple Question on Iraq Dumbfounds Democrats

Iraq: Dems Have Boxed Themselves In

Defeatist Dean Spouts Dim-Witted, Dangerous Ideas

Bush's 'Tet' Moment Is Coming in Iraq

9/11 Commission Has Outlived Its Usefulness




Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid (D.-Nev.), who is leading a spurious Democratic campaign that alleges President Bush misled the country into war, admitted last week that he did not read the National Intelligence Estimate on Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction programs that Director of Central Intelligence George Tenet prepared in 2002 at the request of Senate Democrats specifically so Congress would have up-to-date intelligence as it debated whether to authorize the Iraq war.

The NIE was delivered to Congress at the beginning of October 2002, and Reid voted on Oct. 11, 2002, in favor of authorizing the war.

The NIE concluded that Saddam Hussein’s regime was reconstituting its nuclear weapons program and possessed chemical and biological weapons (see story by Terence Jeffrey earlier this week).

Reid locked the Senate into a controversial closed session three weeks ago to demand accountability on prewar intelligence, but it turns out he did not bother in 2002 to thoroughly familiarize himself with what the U.S. Intelligence Community was saying about Iraq in the run-up to his own pro-war vote.

In an April 7, 2004, article by Dana Priest, the Washington Post reported that few members of Congress read the full 92-page October 2002 NIE. “No more than six senators and a handful of House members read beyond the five-page National Intelligence Estimate executive summary, according to several congressional aides responsible for safeguarding the classified material,” the Post said.

On the November 13 edition of “Fox News Sunday,” Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D.-W.Va.), the vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, told host Chris Wallace, “There were only six people in the Senate who did [read the NIE], and I was one of them.” Rockefeller said he was “sure” that Intelligence Chairman Pat Roberts (R.-Kan.) had also read it.

Roberts confirmed to me that he had in fact read the report. But it turns out that Reid did not.

At a November 15 press conference, I asked Reid and Sen. Chuck Schumer (D.-N.Y.): “The Washington Post reported that six senators read that NIE in 2002 before the vote to authorize the war. Did both of you read it?” Reid at first said: “As indicated last week, Sen. [Carl] Levin [D.-Mich.] has worked very hard to make that public. Now, everyone has read it. Everyone has read it.”

But following up, I asked: “But before you voted for the war—“

Reid said: “We’re talking about six senators. The answer is, if you ask me, I didn’t read it. But I don’t know who did. But there’s a hundred senators, not six. And some members of the Intelligence Committee may have read it. I don’t know. But the fact of the matter is—you can’t escape this—the administration manipulated the evidence and the people who opposed them, like Amb. [Joseph] Wilson were taken to the woodshed.”

Key Democrats who have joined Reid in his campaign to charge the administration with misleading the country about the Iraq intelligence, also failed to read the prewar NIE on Iraq. When asked if he had read it, former presidential candidate Sen. John Kerry (D.-Mass.) said: “I got briefings. I got a personal briefing at the Pentagon.”

Asked if she had read it, likely 2008 presidential candidate Sen. Hillary Clinton (D.-N.Y.), said: “I’m not going to say anything about that. Just let the intelligence committee do their work, okay?”

To the same question, Sen. Joe Lieberman (D.-Conn.) said: “I’m not sure I did. I read a lot of intelligence information around that time, but I don’t know whether I formally read the NIE. I’d have to go back on that.”

Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D.-Calif.), who wrote a letter to Bush on Sept. 13, 2002, asking for his assistance in making sure that Tenet produced the requested NIE about Iraq, said she did in fact read it before casting her vote in favor of the war.

The process that produced the prewar Iraq NIE began on Sept. 9, 2002, when Sen. Richard Durbin (D.-Ill.), a member of the Intelligence Committee, wrote to Tenet requesting it.

Tenet and the intelligence community produced the document, but Congress made very little use of it.

In response to a follow-up question asking to Sen. Reid’s office, asking why he had not read the October 2002 NIE on Iraq before voting for the war, a Reid spokeswoman answered by email: “Senator Reid gave his floor statement on the Iraq resolution on October 9, 2002, and the reasoning he gave for voting for the resolution does not have much to do with current assessments of the intelligence on WMD. Members got their information on Iraq from lots of sources in the months leading up to the October 2002 vote. The most important sources of information were White House/Administration officials, including the President, Vice President, and Secretary of Defense.”




Quote:
You are too much of a coward to even address those obvious LIES by George W. Bush. You cannot refute Bush's LIES, so you cower from them.


COWARD. tired of eating your bullshit yet.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:20 pm 
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LIE #1:

Quote:
"We do not torture."


buckshot wrote:
who the hell is "we" i've never seen or heard of any story where bush tortured people.


So, your defense is, what is the definition of "we".

LIE #2:

shoeless wrote:
"The House and Senate had the same intelligence."


buckshot wrote:
they did just because a few stupid democrats didn't read it . don't make up bullshit.


No, the House and Senate did not have the same intelligence as the White House. Too bad you didn't read my post on this lie.

Quote:
One congressional source said, for example, that senators wanted to review the PDBs to determine whether dissenting views from the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research, the Department of Energy, and other agencies that often disagreed with the CIA on the question of Iraq's programs to develop weapons of mass destruction were being presented to the president.

An administration spokesperson said that the White House was justified in turning down the document demand from the Senate , saying that the papers reflected "deliberative discussions" among "executive branch principals" and were thus covered under longstanding precedent and executive privilege rules. Throughout the president's five years in office, the Bush administration has been consistently adamant about not turning internal documents over to Congress and other outside bodies.


So, you see Bucky, Bush still has many documents he refuses to turn over to Congress. That means when Bush says the House and Senate had the same intelligence as the White House, he was LYING, because he still has intelligence that he refuses to allow them to see to this very day. Get it?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:28 am 
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Bucky...I am also a fellow conservative, but Im sorry my friend...we made the wrong choice. Weve made more enemies now than we had 4 years ago. Do you ever leave the country? Do you know what its like to go into another country and be hated. It puts you in check of how the whole world feels. Americans are selfish pigs who dont give a damn about anyone but them selves. Oh yeah' we feel good once a year when we put spare change in the salvation army can, when the persons are not getting paid to stand for two hours in the cold.....How much do you know of the middle east? Have you been there? If no, then you have no idea what kind of stiff rule Saddam had, and why!! He had to be cruel. Saddam knows he cannot take on the USA. Hes an intelligent man. Hes not an idiot, why bomb the US, and have half the world come after you. He knows that his country and kingdom would be wiped off the earth. Look at Iraq now....its chaos....we only get to see the good things on our media. The "WERE MAKING PROGRESS" stuff....My best friend just got back from Iraq and he sits and cries like a baby. Sits and tells me stories of killing a mother holding a small baby in her hands, because they had a man strapped to the teeth holding this woman and coming towards them. He had to cut this woman in half with a .50 machine gun to engage the enemy. Ive got plenty more details if you want them but i prefer not to. it makes me sick. but this man has to live with that everyday of his life. He has to relive that sequence everynight. This man i grew up with is 6'5" 245 pounds of nothing but muscle...hes a monster...he reminds me of his step dad who was in Vietnam. This man cries everyday! Just out of the blue! I was all for the war till I took a step back one day and thought about it. I was angry, i wanted revenge just like everyone else. This country has an EGO problem. Were raised by propaganda our whole lives. were raised to hate germans cause there nazi's, jews just for being jewish, russians cause there commies, blacks cause there ni**ers, whites cause there honkeys, asians cause there g**ks, mexicans cause there criminals, and if you say you never heard that growing up....your a liar! If you "CLAIM" to have morals then you dont judge anyone?!!!!! My friend youve single handedly called everyone on this site an idiot!! You have judged everyone on the site, just because there liberal. I do not judge you! You are obviously well educated on your foreign, and political Affairs. But I do make a judment that you are iggnorant to the democratic party. you only look at negative things that party does. you can be a liberal person but still vote republican. there are no rules to what you can and cannot do. I personally dispise the administration we have now. I didnt like the latter half clinton administration either. When you look at a liberal you cringe because automatically there an IDIOT to you. thats not having morals. A day will come when you look back at those four years and say "to yourself quietly" I was wrong.....


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 5:23 pm 
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bucky will never admit he was wrong about anything, moon22... :shock: it's a character flaw... :roll:

and obtw... welcome to the board... :D

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:27 pm 
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Welcome moon. You sound like a reasonable person. I feel that you do youself and your fellow conservatives a disservice by calling Bucky a conservative. His ideaology is purley derived from the daily RNC talking points and the most recent incoherent ramblings of George W. Bush.

I'm pretty sure that disasterous, endless war is not part of traditional conservatism. I also know that fiscal conservatives abhor runaway growth in federal spending (average 9%/year during Bush's reign), as well as massive federal deficits. I also happen to know that traditional conservatives champion the right to individual privacy above all else.

Bucky has rejected all of these core conservative ideals because Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, ect. have convinced him that whatever Bush and the RNC do or say at any particular time is gospel.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:51 pm 
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I extend a cheerful welcome to the board also, Moon22.

You're a breath of fresh air from the conservative camp, and it's great to know that there are some of you out there who can admit that you've been duped by George Bush and the neocons, and now you're ready to help us spread the truth about the Bushies. Don't even try to convince bucky to understand where you're coming from, though. bucky's an impossible case because to do what you've done would force bucky to look deep inside himself and check into his reasons for being such a stubborn believer in all of the talking points of Fox News, the RNC, drug addict Rush Limbaugh, etc.

bucky would be forced to see the rot that has gone far too deeply into his character to do anything about. In other words, bucky would have to change, as you've done, and he isn't capable of that.

I hope to see you here often.

Catherine

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