Well Dori: Haven't heard from my bank yet.

However, I have heard from my Allstate insurance company. They returned my self addressed, postage paid envelope and informed me they would be sending my checks to my bank. So they are saying its up to my bank as to whether I will be receiving my cancelled checks or not. Or maybe a copy of same, which my bank ceased supplying copies of. Chalk one up for the little people. Now I know at least one business will not take the heat for confiscating my personal property.

They also said they were calling 1-866-491-5500 to opt out for me.
Guess I will have to call the number to learn who it is affiliated with. I cannot find this number connected with my bank - but it could very well be a private number between businesses or maybe Federal Reserve.
VERY INTERESTING - LOL

Interesting!

I couldn't believe consumer reports suggested 'keeping your cancelled checks' to prove when a payment was cashed by your credit card agency. What planet are they living on?

I don't have time now to look into that number or look up the piece that said to 'keep your cancelled checks', but will try to remember for when I get on the computer again. My telephone company doesn't want people to tie up the lines for too long during the daytime. I try to keep shorter sessions.

Thank you deeann for delving into this. Why would Allstate send your check back to the bank but the bank not send it back to you... interresting...

Got an answer from my mortgage company - very lengthy-------------

A Tanya McNamar admits receiving correspondence regarding
the above referenced loan.

When funds are received at the payment processing center
(lockbox) (? my question mark) in the form of a physical check,
the check is converted into an Automated Clearing House (ACH)
electronic debit transaction. (wonder who operates the clearing
house and wonder if they can guarantee there will be no
security breeches? my question I will ask of them).
As of May 2005, your mortgage payments are being
electronically drafted from your bank account.
Your payment no longer appears as a cleared check on your bank
account statement. Instead, it appears as an electronic debit
and should show the date of the debit, the serial number of your
check, the dollar amount of the transaction and the (mortgage) on
the payee line. In addition ,the check number may be reflected on
the transaction.

Your check authorizes us to process your payment as an electronic debit to the checking account on which it was writton. We maintain a copy of the front of your check for seven years and can provide you a copy when needed, but the check is then shredded. (wonder how much copies will cost us and can we get reverse side copies or will they show that somehow my check has been negociated as payment on the front or will they be able to destroy my check and say they received no payment at all
and start foreclosure proceedings to take posession of any collateral I have listed to cover the debt.?)

(My check, they may choose to think gives them the authority to process my payment as an electronic debit to my checking account, but the check is personal property of mine - payed for with my money and I did not give permission to use my personal property in such a manner. Now
lets see how they will answer that question.)

The conversion of checks to an electronic draft is in compliance with the FEDERAL LAW CHECK 21 or the Check Clearing for the 21st Century
Act. This conversion changes the way checks are processed for payment
by allowing the bank or financial institution to replace the physical check with an electronic image. Federal Law Check 21 is designed to increase the efficiency and the security of the national check payment system through the use of an electronic image.

(My next question will be - Who is the author of Federal Law Check 21 and what position do they hold in the banking world? Or are they affiliated
with any lending institutions and do they live in America or out of America?
Will they stand behind a guarantee that the electronic world will not crash and in the event it does crash the mortgage holders will not be held accountable for any lost data? In the event the security is breeched and information should fall into unscrupulous hands - just who will be held accountable-
since I will not be able to prove I did make my payment?)

While you can currently opt-out of this ACH conversion process, my Mortgage company does not guarantee that all checks will be removed from the electronic check process. In addition, we reserve the right to cancel the opt-out option at any time, bcause Federal Law Check 21 or the Check Clearing for the 21st Century Act does not require them to have my authorization to process my checks electronically. (sounds like there may be two institutions in charge of all this -Federal Law Check 21 and a Check Clearing (house) for the 21st Century Act.)

They tell me to call Tanya directly if I have any more questions, but I think I will stick with written correspondence.That way I can keep a folder on all that has made a comment and down the road may have to prove who said what.

I don't like them telling me I don't really have a choice in the matter of my personal property either. We will see. Also my bank has quit giving me copies of my checks alltogether. I mentioned that in my letter to the
president of my bank asking who gave him the authority to make a new rule or change the law. Now this last piece of information from my mortgage company says they send electronic images, so why does my bank not supply same to me?

Very interesting and a lot of unanswered questions keep popping into my little pea brain that I will demand answers to. A paper trail of who said what. and when it was said.

Hope you can make heads or tails out of this Dori?

Wow! That is some answer! It is like the little gray on gray printing banks send out with credit cards.

I get nothing at all back. I get one sheet of paper listing the numbers of checks that have been cashed, and the amount I have left in my account. When an agency electronically transfers funds, I get only the amount but no check reference. I thought that was because I have the cheapest possible bank account.

FEDERAL LAW CHECK 21 or the Check Clearing for the 21st Century Act sounds like something Congress passed--I wonder when that happened.



This makes no sense to me at all. How could an electronic image be more secure than the actual check?

And I wonder how much of this is going on in a foreigh country. Maybe that is why an 'electronic image' is more easily handled by them?

None of this sounds secure to me. Does it to you?

Surprise - I received my statement from my bank. For the first time I was supplied copies of the front and back of the checks (locally) I've written on my account.

Now I know Allstate Insurance returned my check to my bank and opted out for me.

All my bank done was list the check. No copies (front or back). I will be asking what have they done with the original check that I know was returned to them.

Now I researched, Federal Law Check 21 and Substitute Checks - and/or the Check Clearing for the 21st Century Century Act - and the (ACH) Automated Clearing House. I have found that, the Federal Reserve did enact the rule ? - Law ?.

The Federal Reserve is a private business composed of 12 Federal Reserve Banks and contains elements of both the private sector and of government control.

The claim that the "Fed is privately owned" is correct -- each Federal Reserve Bank is owned by private for-profit commercial banks and S&L's.
Bottom level.

Middle level are the 12 regional Federal Reserve Banks. They have a variety of power and duties - namely:
*Buy and sell government bonds in secondary markets (open market
operations)
*Lend reserves to member banks

ON AND ON - However, a Federal Reserve Bank can only employ open market operations with the explicit approval of the Board of Governors.

At the top of the structure chart is the Board of Governors. A 7- member
panel who is appointed by the President of the United States and confirmed by the Senate.

Results, all the key monetary policy decisions -- that affect interest rates -- are made by a government agency whose members are selected by the president of the United States. The Fed may be privately owned, but it is controlled by the government.

WOW - we really need to be trembling. The top position of a decision maker is held by a weak stupid moron who has failed at any and all endevers his daddy's and his daddy's friends money put up for him his whole life. Are we really ready for the next wall street crash and a brand new depression? I wonder if these three entities are in any way affiliated with the Imminent Domain Ruling that was granted to cities and townships not so long ago? Something to think about.

Is it any wonder Bushy boy tried so hard to privatize Social Security? Take what little the blue collar worker worked all their lives and payed into for a little income in our twilight years?

How many are aware that citizens in 13 countries (at last tally) are being paid social security benefits? Starting with Carter - benefits have been awarded to a minimum of three countries. The exception being Regan (if memory serves me right) who gave it to citizens in eight countries. I have the exact figures which I will locate if anyone is interested. Little George was working for the citizens to receive benefits in Mexico at last count.

You know, deeann, this all sounds like a very bad comic routine.

Do you belong to the Gray Panthers? AARP is such a sellout, Gray Panthers really does work for seniors. They work on many things, although I don't remember this as a topic. Maybe they would be interested!

I sure find this all interesting! Thank you for all the work you have put into this. I hope people are paying attention.

http://www.graypanthers.org/

I wonder how much of a perk or kickback AARP gets for anyone and everyone who subscribes to any offer they make to their members?

I did belong at one time, until I realized the only thing they were offering me was discounts to any of their offers.

So I let my membership expire.

I quit AARP when they backed that dismal Medicare Part D program so they could rake in more money for their insurance programs. Wrote them and told them I quit and why. Never got an answer from them, but they continue to try to sign me back up.

Fat chance.

I very much admire what you are doing with the 'where are the checks' campaign. Never thought of doing that myself. My vision is so bad now, I can barely do what needs to be done (I do count TVNL as a 'need to be done', plus I enjoy it). Who says you reach a certain age you are not supposed to enjoy anything anymore?

What are those singing groups around the nation, The Raging Grannies? I love raging grannies. People who make the world a better place!

Let's be raging grannies!

Are any of you already on Soc. Sec.? Do any of you plan to be drawing So. Sec. benefits in the near future?

Check into how I think Bush Jr. is trying to bankrupt Soc. Sec. through the back door, since he wasen't able to privatize it like he has tried so hard to do.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1762391/posts

The Bush administration reached an agreement with Mexico on Social Security benefits that would allow illegal aliens granted amnesty in the future to claim credit for the time they worked illegally.

The deal has not taken effect because Bush has not signed it or submitted it to Congress. Once he does, Congress would have 60 days to vote against it or it automatically would become law. Is he waiting for the right time to sneak it through? Maybe more PORK??

MCutler007@aol.com says:
The time has long since come for Americans to contact their allged representatives and tell them - "No you cannot!"

Lead, follow or get out of the way!!

Counterfeit SS card markets are already booming, as is the fraud at Driver's License DMV's across the country. So how can our incompetent government say the claims will be legal or bogus??????????

According to the terms of Bush's Totalization agreement, illegal Mexican aliens only have to work 6 quarters (18 months) to be eligible to apply for benefits for themselves as well as their Mexican (national) wife and Mexican (national) children, even if the children have never stepped foot in the USA.

US citizens (you and I) have to work at least 40 quarters (10 years) before we're eligible to apply. I worked and payed into it for 49 years excluding years I was layed off (fired) because of business's being sold or downsized to modern day improvements.

When I did apply, the administration said I did not work for three years that I did in fact work and pay into the system. I just happened to be a person who saved my check stubs and could prove I did work - how much I earned and how much I payed into the system. I wonder how many people they try this on and get away with it?

Like - when I retired from my last place of employment. They slid a paper over to me to sign. I looked it over and gave it back. I said the company owes me another 100.00 a month in benefits. The gentleman said if I didn't sign now my payments would be held up. I said fine - hold them up and when they do pay it will be for the correct amount and I won't have to fight for what I have coming to me. I told him I had my figures at home and I would bring them in the next work day. loe and behold they had found their mistake the next work day.

I think it's time all SS recipients start calling in our markers on all the surplus funds that have been misapproprieated and spent everywhere except on SS recipients. Namely all the money that has been placed into the general fund to keep Washington running. Our retired employees draw their retirement benefits from the general fund and they receive the same pay in retirement they were payed while they were supposed to be representing us. They do not pay into SS, so I feel they should not be eligible to draw from our retirement funds. They are gracious enough to give us somewhere between $20.00 to $40.00 due to COLA but they vote themselves a $3,000.00 to $4,000.00 dollar pay raise whenever the urge hits them. Something else we should put a stop to. If they had to earn their pay maybe so many lazy bums would not throw there hats into the political ring.

Sorry so long - if you have some input I sure would appreciate it.

Dori - I signed onto the gray panthers. But you and I are on borrowed time and we must get the younger generation to get involved. It's their country that is being destroyed from the inside like a thief in the night.
We've done our share now they must step up to the plate and do their share. If not for their sake then for their children's sake and possibly their grandchildren's sake.

Bush is bad news on everything. There are still Rs trying to privatize Social Security, and I am sure Bush would love to accomodate them.

I don't understand the 6 quarters vs 40 quarters difference to get SS in Mexico. Definately have to look into this more. I could see the benefits for Mexicans if they had to live by our rules--as we do. Imagine--if you hadn't had your records, you would have been cheated out of THAT! I wonder too, how many people would have records that complete.

I am not against Mexicans. We ruined their country and now they have nothing. I would try to get into the country where the jobs are if I were trying to feed my family too. Most Mexicans are hard working, good people. Just like anyone else, the bad ones color the entire population. But the Mexicans I have known really are nose to the grindstone, do the work, send money home to feed the kids people. I hate to think of what people of the world think of me because America has a twit for a President...

Sounds like a good idea if people start checking every year and see where their SS account stands. I know it is a pain--my gosh you have to listen to propaganda forever before you actually talk with anyone. I am glad that is behind me. I don't envy anyone.



Amen!

And that COLA raise is eaten by the raise in Medicare. Frankly, I don't think most of "our retired employees" are worth what they get when they are 'working', let alone getting our SS money! That is what happens when the guys at the top get to make the rules.

But it is the 'cheap labor' Rs who bring people here to work for next to nothing, taking jobs away from people here who need them. Why are they not responsible for paying an adequite amount to cover their retirement?

Oh, yeah, I forgot who is running the government.

I believe Gray Panthers are an all age group. Started for Seniors, included all ages eventually. They are a feisty bunch. As you said, it is the children of today, and their children who need to be protected. Better for them to start learning about this system now when they can do something about it. (At least I hope so.)

I have nothing against giving to those who earn it but not to the ones who want it all for nothing. That also includes our own bums on assistance when they are able to earn it but don't want to work.

We are a nation of immigrants and we've been fairly civilized with the world but we've reached the point where chairity has to start at home.

Look how our citizens have been neglected after Katrina. Absolutely no excuse for it at all.

Located the info I told you about, citizens in foreign countries receiving SS benefits. The problem I have with this is a lot of these came over here on sponsorships and our elite made money off them as their sponsors.

Jimmy Carter gave it to:
Italy Nov 1 1978
Germany Dec 1 1979
Switzerland Nov 1 1980
Ronald Regan gave it to:
Belgium Jul 1 1984
Norway Jul 1 1984
Canada Aug 1 1984
United Kingdom Jan 1 1985
Sweden Jan 1 1987
Spain Apr 1 1988
France Jul 1 1988
Geo. Bush Sr. gave it to:
Portugal Aug 1 1989
Netherlands Nov 1 1990
Austria Nov 1 1991
Finland Nov 1 1992
Bill Clinton gave it to:
Ireland Sep 1 1993
Luxembourg Nov 1 1983
Greece Sep 1 1994
Geo. Bush Jr. gave it to:
South Korea Apr 1 2001
Chile Dec 1 2001
Australia Oct 1 2002
Japan Oct 1 2005
AND IS NOW WORKING ON MEXICO!!!!!!!!!!!!

Notice: It seems Republicans gives more away than Democrats - It does appear the Republicans just can't stand the fact a Democrat gave us a program so sucessful thay want to totally destroy it and use our investment for everything but it's intended purpose.

Wow! That is an impressive list, isn't it!

Let's see, Carter started it with Italy, Germany and Switzerland. I wonder why. This was in the '70s, not as though they were hurting from the war yet. Carter is a good hearted man, I doubt he wanted to hurt Americans.

But the SS accounts had far more money then and fewer people who were drawing out. Doesn't take a genius to know the baby boomers were coming down the road though.

I can see why Rs want to give the money away, they have hated FDR and his programs forever. They hated him when he was President. William Rivers Pitt wrote a piece years ago called, "Killing Franklin". It was about how the Rs have planned and are carrying out their dream of destroying Roosevelt's programs and if they can, any good feelings about Roosevelt himself. I think of that every time I hear someone say Roosevelt was the worst president we ever had, and Reagan was the best. I know they have drunk the R Kool-Aid.

Bush has borrowed tons of money--we owe every nation I can think of. He did that while giving huge tax cuts to the rich and carrying on two wars. He is purposely draining the government of money it needs to take care of it's people and for that matter, it's infrastructure. This is all a purposefully done. There is a method to their madness.

Meanwhile, he is supporting the crushing of unions and jobs leaving Americans behind. There is no good in this person what-so-ever. He wants our 'teaming masses' to be teaming masses of poverty. And the teaming masses look at him and say, "What a wonderful Christian man."

Not my idea of Christian!

I do hope young people of today take time to look at what way their country is headed. If they don't, they will be swallowed and never know what hit them.

Well Dori - I can no longer make the statements about my checks being my personal property.

Had to order a new supply and they are free. Oh, the pain of getting shot down.

Never received an answer about why my bank did not supply a copy (both sides) of the check Allstate Insurance sent back to my bank.

They are going to do exactly what they want to do concerning my checking account. The president of my bank is not going to commit himself to anything in writing.

Everything coming down the pike is related in one way or another to a one world government. Unless the people rebel in a loud and positive way - it's gonna happen. I think the Democratic Party has sold us out also.Their only concern is looking out for themselves. This has been in the planning stages for a very long time and we are just starting to see the fruitation of all the pre-planing and patience of our foes.

I checked into having my monthly income checks come to me instead of direct deposit. Without a checking account we will pay a fee for every transaction at a bank (cashing checks etc.). One way to beat the fees is to have a savings account. But they would place stipulations on that also. They would figure out a way to inconvience us while taking a fee for it at the same time. I can get free certified checks now - however if I close my checking account, I will pay a fee for a certified check. Money orders would be a pain in the wa-toosey also. They only make them out for a limited amount and it may take two or three M/O's to pay one bill, with a fee for each. We are on a down-hill drag with our bare bottom being raked across the coals. Just gotta take up arms I guess. Wonder if Cheney would be willing to loan us his trusty shotgun? Naw, guess he might think he would be the first it would be pointed at. Dumb but not stupid eh???

Free checks? My checks were $75 for four boxes. The cost would have been higher per box for fewer boxes. At least you have that much.

Shop around--ask everywhere you go how much a money order is. The costs vary around here.

Banks rule--that has been the way it is for many years...

Cost's vary around here for money orders also. The amount you can purchase one for vary's too, with a fee for each one purchased.

Another thing about shopping around. With the power's that be how long can we afford to buy gas for our cars?

We all flocked to malls, betraying our local stores that we could walk to town to purchase whatever we needed and forcing them to close for lack of profit.

Same thing with not enough people boycotting imports - now all our goods on every stores shelves are imported goods and just plain junk if not hazardous to our health.

I'm getting off subject so I will shut up. I was getting concerned with not seeing any posts from you Dori - glad you are back.