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 Post subject: History's Account Of Treatment Of Black People
PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 9:40 pm 
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Quote:
2.QUANTITY OF FOOD.

The legal allowance of food for slaves in North Carolina, is in the words of the law, “a quart of corn per day.” See Haywood's Manual, 525. The legal allowance in Louisiana is more, a barrel [flour barrel] of corn, (in the ear,) or its equivalent in other grain, and a pint of salt a month. In the other slave states the amount of food for the slaves is left to the option of the master.
http://jefferson.village.virginia.edu/u ... twa5t.html




Quote:
“In 1829 or 30, one of my father's slaves was accused of taking the key to the office and stealing four or five dollars: he denied it. A constable by the name of Hull was called; he took the negro, very deliberately tied his hands, and whipped him till the blood ran freely down his legs. By this time Hull appeared tired, and stopped; he then took a rope, put a slip noose around his neck, and told the negro he was going to kill him, at the same time drew the rope and began whipping: the negro fell; his cheeks looked as though they would burst with strangulation. Hull whipped and kicked him, till I really thought he was going to kill him; when he ceased, the negro was in a complete gore of blood from head to foot.”


http://jefferson.village.virginia.edu/u ... twa8t.html


After reading that above I thought, what in heck was a slave going to do with some money? It don't make sense... that he (slave) was trying to steal money. The beating that he got for the accusasions are believeable.

Another thing which is ironic is the term used to describe a person who is being held against his will that goes for freedom: "runaway".

http://jefferson.village.virginia.edu/u ... lavhp.html

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:56 pm 
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derrion..you might be interested in reading more about this:

Quote:
Narratives and Biographies

Personal narratives from individuals who were enslaved, whether written or transcribed, will be an important component of this site. Like no other documents can, they speak directly to the experiences of those who survived slavery. These narratives, as well as images and biographies of individuals who were enslaved, will reflect the breadth and diversity of American slave environments and the contributions the enslaved made to the country that deprived them of their liberty. The narratives of former enslaved persons provide a unique view of the institution that shamed America for some 240 years and which still resonates through American society.



Slavery in America

Born in Slavery: The Federal Writers' Project of Slave Narratives

Catherine

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:42 pm 
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Those narratives are... I don't know.

I am more interested in eyewitness accounts of third parties. I find that usually these witnesses are white and are "somewhat" against the bad treatment of human beings, not so much against the system of slavery itself.

The argument was for slavery that black people were not human, but more akin to cattle or property. Which is why the term "chattel slavery" should be used to mark the difference of this particular institution of slavery that existed here in America.

How about this story on page 15:

Quote:
This same planter had a female slave who was a member of the Methodist Church; for a slave she was intelligent and conscientious. He proposed a criminal intercourse with her. She would not comply. He left her and sent for the overseer, and told him to have her flogged. It was done. Not long after, he renewed his proposal. She again refused. She was again whipped. He then told her why she had been twice flogged, and told her he intended to whip her till she should yield. The girl, seeing that her case was hopeless, her back smarting with the scourging she had received, and dreading a repetition, gave herself up to be the victim of his brutal lusts[/size]

http://jefferson.village.virginia.edu/u ... twa4t.html


And what I mean to write concerning the slave narratives is that these testimonies were given at the end of slavery and most of the people who give the testimonies are very old, of poor intelligence and still scared of "marster".

Even that word master when written by a third party account of how the slaves pronounced it differs. It seems that "massa" is more common, but anyway thanks for the link Catherine. In fact I do have a book dealing with just that.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 2:28 am 
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derrion wrote:
The argument was for slavery that black people were not human, but more akin to cattle or property. Which is why the term "chattel slavery" should be used to mark the difference of this particular institution of slavery that existed here in America.


Derrion-
I believe if you look critically at the long history of slavery that, chattel slavery, has been true for all of recorded history. Slavery implies ownership and the owned are never equal. Losing a war in ancient times meant certain death; slavery was considered a reprieve from death. In order to maintain one’s human status one had to continue winning. It has been pointed out that most slaves were captured by rival tribes in Africa. The tribes of those times (and many of the present) believe the only people of human worth are members of their own tribe. That is why the only way to end this racist mindset is inter marriage. Once America can fulfill the promise of a true melting pot then we can move away from these self-destructive patterns of behavior.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:10 pm 
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A Proud Liberal wrote:
derrion wrote:
The argument was for slavery that black people were not human, but more akin to cattle or property. Which is why the term "chattel slavery" should be used to mark the difference of this particular institution of slavery that existed here in America.


Derrion-
I believe if you look critically at the long history of slavery that, chattel slavery, has been true for all of recorded history. Slavery implies ownership and the owned are never equal. Losing a war in ancient times meant certain death; slavery was considered a reprieve from death. In order to maintain one’s human status one had to continue winning. It has been pointed out that most slaves were captured by rival tribes in Africa. The tribes of those times (and many of the present) believe the only people of human worth are members of their own tribe. That is why the only way to end this racist mindset is inter marriage. Once America can fulfill the promise of a true melting pot then we can move away from these self-destructive patterns of behavior.


After critical analysis, I would have to dis-agree concerning the slavery imposed upon black people here in America.

My number one rejection of that is that black slaves in America were brougt here nine thousand miles away from their native lands by slave traders or slave "capturers". I know of no document that point out that when the European arrived in Africa initially where they witnessed "tribes" at war with one another; better yet the "divide and conquer" technique was employed which resulted in "tribal" wars which caused the wholesale importation of millions of black people being brought to America against their will.

Their being captured was only the beginning of the long horrors that awaited them on their way to America and on the trip here death was considered more honorable than to endure the travesties of human injustice that black people were subjected to, and after arriving here in America there still was no end to this gross inhuman mis-treatment as is well documented.

The wars that you give reference to concerning slavery being a reprieve from death are those "ancient" wars which happened in Europe not Africa.

I know of no melting pot in America. That "theory" is akin to Martin Luther Kings, "I have a dream speech". As we see that even with his hopes he was killed preaching that rhetoric.

No sir, I believe and know that only separation is the answer, not segregation which is forced upon a people because of the color of their skin, but separation where each nation can live to itself without another nation trying to impose it rules and values on another. In fact I have not read where the "founders" of this nation wrote anywhere where they believe that a melting pot is the idea for a great America. And to date that idea has not worked and will not work as the basis for the whole.

And once again I cannot understand what is wrong with being racist. Everybody, including you , are for your own. If you worship a God, that God looks like you. There is nothing wrong with loving your own self and kind as long as you do not go out and infringe on the rights of another.
I love my own more than any others. I am not out burning churches are putting burning crosses on front lawns or saying what individuals should be doing with their own lives. I judge people on thier own individual merit and worth. People have to help people, but that doen't mean that I should love another more than I love my own because I gained in help from another and I should not be restricted from helping my own just because I gained help from another... if the help is in truth... meaning no hidden agendas

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 Post subject: THE DREAM IS NOT DEAD
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 7:15 am 
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derrion wrote:
The wars that you give reference to concerning slavery being a reprieve from death are those "ancient" wars which happened in Europe not Africa.

What is your point here? The whites of ancient and Biblical times suffered from slavery just as severe as the “chattel slavery” of America. The ancient Greeks after conquering an enemy would out right either kill the defeated or enslave them. The enslaved were transported away from home and family with no recognition of their humanity.

Your attempt to paint the picture of American slavery being uniquely cruel just doesn’t wash with the facts. Slavery is and was a particularly evil practice no matter where or when practiced. This includes the only places on Earth where it is practiced on a large scale today, Africa.


derrion wrote:
I know of no melting pot in America. That "theory" is akin to Martin Luther Kings, "I have a dream speech". As we see that even with his hopes he was killed preaching that rhetoric.

No sir, I believe and know that only separation is the answer, not segregation which is forced upon a people because of the color of their skin, but separation where each nation can live to itself without another nation trying to impose it rules and values on another. In fact I have not read where the "founders" of this nation wrote anywhere where they believe that a melting pot is the idea for a great America. And to date that idea has not worked and will not work as the basis for the whole.

Well derrion we here in America fought a bloody Civil War to make this country united. There is no separate nation where one can retreat in a self-imposed segregation and bigotry. Our founding fathers left the living document of the Constitution, which enables the adoption of new ideas and structures. The melting pot is out there happening one family at a time and those who refuse to see or support it, black or white or yellow or brown or blue, are equally culpable for the evils of racism and bigotry.

derrion wrote:
And once again I cannot understand what is wrong with being racist. Everybody, including you , are for your own. If you worship a God, that God looks like you. There is nothing wrong with loving your own self and kind as long as you do not go out and infringe on the rights of another.

I love my own more than any others. I am not out burning churches are putting burning crosses on front lawns or saying what individuals should be doing with their own lives. I judge people on thier own individual merit and worth. People have to help people, but that doen't mean that I should love another more than I love my own because I gained in help from another and I should not be restricted from helping my own just because I gained help from another... if the help is in truth... meaning no hidden agendas

Racism is inherently evil, albeit practiced by white or black. You say everyone is for their own including me, well I am for all humans. I am human first and foremost, and strive to deal with anyone on that basis. I consider it a moral failing to treat anyone differently because of skin color, sexual orientation, or any of things people use to create divisions amongst us. As for worshipping a God that looks like me, that would be quite impossible, as I worship an incorporeal God. If God did have a physical body, I am convinced it would be vastly superior in design and looks to our human bodies. It is only human vanity and egocentric thinking that brings about a God that looks like one’s self.

Your arguments that helping your own first support reversing any anti-segregation strides made since the middle of the 20th century. The Supreme Court made the correct analysis when they said that “separate but equal” was impossible. Separation based on anything the individual has no control over creates inequality. Yes, Martin Luther King died because he dared to have a dream. I heard that speech live and to this day believe in the “dream.” To give up on the dream is to betray everything I believe Abraham, Martin, John and Bobby stood for. It would make their deaths meaningless and I will never accept that. It matters not their personal failings, their dreams are still where I want America to go and will be working for until the day I die. The name “A Proud Liberal” is not just a convenience for me, it is a commitment to the causes the name represents.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:36 am 
Nothing in life is equal. There is no such thing as that. You are living a dream set up for you by your white fore-fathers. That dream did not include my people and never will, no matter how much my people incline to live that dream. That is what makes a racist wrong. That idea that you have, not in being separate

I shall sum up my statements with this chapter from the book, "The Fall of America":

Quote:
The Fall of America

CHAPTER 41

The Day of America’s Downfall


1 Allah manifests the fall of America. He desires to make America fall as a warning to her brothers in Europe. White Americans and Germans -- Allah has taught me -- are the most wicked of the white race. The wicked deeds that have been performed and are still being performed by white Americans upon the so-called Negroes (their slaves) are the worst in the annals of history.

2 They have been clever enough, in their wickedness, to make the so-called Negro slaves love them -- though they are their open enemies and murderers. Allah, in the Person of Master Fard Muhammad, to Whom be praise forever, now judges the American whites and is causing America’s fall and total destruction. Egypt, under Pharaoh, is an example -- fulfilling the signs and other prophecies of the doom of this people as foretold by the prophets from Noah to Jesus.

3 Moses and Jesus are the most outstanding prophets in the history of the Caucasian race for the past four thousand years. There are several other contemporaries, but Moses and Jesus are the major prophets of the white race’s history. The whole of the civilized world today -- as prophesied in Isaiah -- is against the white man of America. Allah hates the wicked American whites and threatens to remove them from the face of the earth.

4 Since white Americans, and the white race in general, have deceived the entire world of Black people and their brethren (brown, red and yellow), Allah now is causing these people to wake up and see the white race as it really is -- the created enemy of the darker people. As we see today, there is a general awakening of the darker people into the knowledge of self and the knowledge of their age-old six thousand years (enemies all over the earth.) The American white race cannot sincerely give the so-called Negroes (their slaves) a square deal. She only desires to deceive them.



False Equality

5 Today America is trying -- against her will -- to give the so-called Negro civil rights (which is against the very nature and will of the white race) for the first time since the Black man has been here. America falsely offers him social equality in certain parts of the country. This social equality consists mostly of permitting the American Black race to mix openly with the white man and his woman (the devils). The actual idea, however, is to grant the so-called Negro social equality among the lower class of whites. This is done so that the scriptures -- wherein they prophesy that the white man tempts and corrupts the so-called Negroes with his women -- might be fulfilled.

6 God has taught me that the white race was grafted unalike, and being unalike, it is able to attract the Black man and Black woman, getting them to do all the evil and indecency known to the white race.



Doom Prophesied

7 One of the prophets of the Bible prophesied in regard to America, "As the morning spreads abroad upon the mountains, a great and strong people set in battle array." (Joel 2:2). This is the setting of the nations for a showdown to determine who will live on earth. The survivor is to build a nation of peace to rule the people of the earth forever under the guidance of Almighty God, Allah. With the nations setting forth for a final war at this time, God pleads for His people (the inheritors of the earth; the so-called Negroes).

8 The so-called Negro is the prey of the white man of America, being held firmly in the white man’s power, along with two million Indians, who must be redeemed at this time -- and will be, if the so-called Negro turns to his Redeemer. The problem of the American Black man is his unwillingness to be separated from his four hundred year old enemies. The problems, therefore, is harder to solve -- especially with the enemy trying to fascinate the Negro with his lower-class girls and women, arraying them partly nude before the Negroes in every public news media (cheap daily newspapers, and magazines, radio, TV) and the Negro is quick to imitate.

9 The problem between these two people -- separating and dignifying the so-called Negroes so they may be accepted and respected as equals or superiors to other nations -- must be solved. This is God’s promise to the so-called Negro (the Lost and Found members of the original Black Nation of the earth). This promise was made through the mouths of His prophets (Bible and Qur’an): that He would separate us from our enemies, dignify and make us the masters, after this wicked race has been judged and destroyed for its own evils.

10 But, as I said, the solving of this problem -- which means the redemption of the Negro -- is hard to do since he loves his enemies. (See Bible: Deut., 18:15, 18; Psalms, Isaiah, Matthews, 25:32; and Revelations, Chapter 14.)

11 The manifestation of Allah and judgment between the so-called Negro and the enemy of God and the Nation of Islam will make the so-called Negro see and know his enemy and himself; his people, his God and his religion.



Rejection of Self

12 We hear the statements of Black educational, political, and Christian classes, which express their love for the white man, publicly asking to be his brothers, if not his brothers-in-law. Now this class wants to make it clear to the world that they really love the white race and not the Black race. This means they want to be white instead of Black. The devils have made them hate Black. They reject the thought of Black ever being the ruler or equal with the ruler. They ask boldly for inferiority -- not only for themselves, but for their people.

13 They want to absorb themselves and their kind (especially the so-called American Negro) into the race of white people, thus ending the Black race. This is just the opposite with Allah (God), myself, and my followers. We "want out completely." We want no claim to kinship with a people who, by nature, are not our kin. Read from Genesis to the Revelations in the Bible, and from Sura 2 to Sura 114 of the Holy Qur’an.

14 By no means are the so-called Negroes and the whites kin. God did not create them brothers, nor did He create them to ever become brothers. One is created an enemy against the other; and since the righteous are more powerful than the wicked, Allah, the God of righteousness, set a time of reckoning for the enemy (the white man) of the righteous.



Separation

15 We want separation. We want a home on this earth we can call our own. We want to go for self and leave the enemy who has been sentenced to death by Allah (Rev. 20:10-14) from the day he was created. (See this subject in the Bible and Qur’an). No one -- white, Black, brown, yellow or red -- can provide to me by any scriptures of Allah (God), sent by one of the prophets of Allah (God), that we should not be separated from the white race: that we should believe and follow the religion dictated, shaped and formed by the white race’s theologians.

16 The coming of Allah and the judgment of the wicked world is made clear by the prophetic sayings of the prophets. The so-called "reverends" and the proud intellectual class are doomed to destruction with the enemy if they remain with him instead of joining onto Allah Who loves them and Who will deliver them and the Nation of Islam.

17 The so-called Negro masses must be warned of the grave mistake they make in following the leadership of those who love and befriend their murderers. This will not get them freedom or civil rights.

18 America is falling. Her doom has come and none, said the prophets, shall help her in the day of her downfall. In the Bible, God pleads with you to fly out of her (America) and seek refuge in Him (Rev. 18:4). It certainly will change your minds about following a doomed people

-- a people who hate you and your kind, and who call one who teaches the truth about them a hater. They are the producers of haters of us. We are with God and the righteous.


http://www.seventhfam.com/temple/books/ ... fall41.htm


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:54 am 
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14 By no means are the so-called Negroes and the whites kin. God did not create them brothers, nor did He create them to ever become brothers. One is created an enemy against the other; and since the righteous are more powerful than the wicked, Allah, the God of righteousness, set a time of reckoning for the enemy (the white man) of the righteous.

sheesh...talk about racism...the writer's interpretation of what some "god" thinks or wants is just another bullshit story. tell me, oh great guest, who the hell talked to this alleged "god" and got all this crap? i spoke with god last night...really...and i'm also thinking of writing a book about it. he told me that there are some really fucked up people in this world who like to use his name just to suit their little shallow minded bigotries. so, now what? either god is playing both sides of the fence here, or one of us is full of shit.




Separation

15 We want separation. We want a home on this earth we can call our own. We want to go for self and leave the enemy who has been sentenced to death by Allah (Rev. 20:10-14) from the day he was created. (See this subject in the Bible and Qur’an). No one -- white, Black, brown, yellow or red -- can provide to me by any scriptures of Allah (God), sent by one of the prophets of Allah (God), that we should not be separated from the white race: that we should believe and follow the religion dictated, shaped and formed by the white race’s theologians.


you want separations AND your own home? i thought you had one already...it's called africa. oh, wait a sec, africa doesn't have all the nice amneties the white man's world has does it? it doesn't have job opportunities, great health care, freedoms etc that the white man's world has...does it? so, i guess 'your own land" is out of the question...so, why not go after what the white man has created for EVERYONE and claim that as your own??? it's free and easy...all you have to do is cry the "woe is me" crap. your reply is pure bullshit.

you seem to forget that many white people don't give a shit what color you are, nor really care. you seem to forget that many whites and blacks get along fine. you also seem to forget that many white people in america gave their fuckin lives during the civil war for the black man...and never asked for a "thanks" from any of the blacks. but, i guess we don't want to talk about facts like that, do we?

i've never considered myself to be a racist, but post like yours is real busllhit.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:57 am 
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This is the entire book:

http://www.seventhfam.com/temple/books/ ... lindex.htm

Quote:
I worship an incorporeal God. If God did have a physical body, I am convinced it would be vastly superior in design and looks to our human bodies.


In both books Bible and Holy Qur-an it states that God created man in His own image. Why would God be the physical of man.

Of course He is superior, He is Supreme over all, but He is a being. That is why we refer to Him as the Supreme Being.

We live in a physical and material world, that a physical and material God from the beginning created for us and NOW rules overs us. And everything happens on time. Believe it or let it alone.

You are like most white folks when confronted for what your fore-fathers did to my fore-fathers. I expected no more than this. You are fulfilling your role. Ever since your people brought my people here there has been unrest on the entire earth. Everything must reap for what it sows, like it or not..

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Last edited by derrion on Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 11:02 am 
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"No one -- white, Black, brown, yellow or red -- can provide to me by any scriptures of Allah (God), sent by one of the prophets of Allah (God), that we should not be separated from the white race"

As far as Africa being my home the whole world is found with the first foot prints of the blackman.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:39 pm 
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Once again you've proven your argument through ABSOLUTISM. You have trivialised and demoted god to an insignifigant gnat, as well as demoted your argument to mindless ramblings about racism and gods great man made self professed glory. Oh hallelujah.

Bugman, go find a real life and get real. How can one argue about facts when they use pretend worlds as reality. You are a lost cause. Go pray for wisdom- get down on your knees and beg for knowledge beyond your propaganda. Perhaps your god has another trick up his sleeve and can actually communicate with you. He'd probably tell you to grow up and figure things out for yourself.

But then again, that would be a trifle more difficult when you are programmed to respond with redundant circular logic. You weould figure a way to ignore the voices in your head and blame it on some evil. This is typical of those who are possessed by temporal lobe seizures as you seem to be.

Sad. I thought it was worthwhile trying to interpret your pathetic logic. Now I see that it s just pathetic, redundant, circular ravings- as you are proving that all you know is insignifigant racist drivel and god based support to justify it.

You're basically another pathetic fundie without real direction or understanding in life. Go hide behind your church and hate.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:55 pm 
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Good viewing and listening:


http://www.seventhfam.com/video/

Especially the first one DOCUMENTARY OF ELIJAH MUHAMMAD AND THE NOI

This one is very, very good:
ELIJAH MUHAMMAD INTERVIEW - IRV KUPSINET


Enjoy.

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fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth. As he has injured the other, so he is to be injured.

Accept Your Own and Be Yourself ~ Master Fard Muhammad


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:51 pm 
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ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 7:27 pm 
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mga wrote:
sheesh...talk about racism...the writer's interpretation of what some "god" thinks or wants is just another bullshit story.


How about simply "treating others the way you want to be treated"?

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jobot wrote:
mga wrote:
sheesh...talk about racism...the writer's interpretation of what some "god" thinks or wants is just another bullshit story.


How about simply "treating others the way you want to be treated"?


true, jobot, but derrion now brings up what my "forefathers" dod a couple hundred years ago, unfortunately for derrion, my 'forefathers" were still in italy growing grapes, drinking wine and cooking pasta. therefore, i have no guilt, nor will i sit here and allow him to suggest that i'm supposed to. his reply, like that of the "guest" was typically shallow.

in america, like most other countries, everyone has the opportunity to get ahead and/or make something for themselves. however, some feel they're owed a better life. to that i say bullshit...no one owes anyone anything.

on the other hand, i have no problem with our system giving people a helping hand, if they truly need one and show a desire to pull themselves up.

but, by all means, i sure wish many people would stop with the "woe is me" whining..it gets real old after a while.

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