If you care to hear the opinion of someone who does not believe the bailout is going to work to begin with, I would like to point out that what we are looking at is a compromise. Something that we have not seen for many years.

Now, I do agree with you on the rights stance on birth control as being antiquated, but we can not forget that there are roughly 50% who are on the right and who are also very rigid in their views on this subject. I also tend to find it quite appalling at the exaggerations being used as the reason for wanting this removed from the bill.

BUT, Obama is attempting to work WITH the Republicans, and in order to work WITH another person who has views which differ greatly from your own, in order to move forward, you have to be willing to make compromises in order to move forward. In other words, you have to be willing to pick your fights.

Try to look at it from Obama's point of view. This is obviously something that he wanted in this bill or he would not have put it in. The question he has to ask himself when he see's resistance to this being implemented is this, Is this an integral part of the overall theme of this bill? This bill in meant as a stimulus package. If this is removed, will it compromise the overall goals of this bill which is to stabilize the economy?

I think the answer to that is no. Thus, he may be willing to let this slide for now....he is willing to compromise. This is not weakness, this is strength. This is not stubborn stupidity, this is wisdom.

I would not consider this caving in. I would consider it to be brilliant statesmanship. No matter what he has done up to this point that I oppose very strongly, VERY strongly (will post on this at some point in the future), I recognize the brilliance of what he is doing.

This mans predecessor on the other hand (may his name be stricken from history), NEVER compromised. He did what he wanted no matter the national opposition at which time the traitors in congress would sign the bill fully and wholly without hardly a whimper. THAT is a cave in.

I do not believe in Tit for Tat. I do not believe that he should ramrod everything down the throats of people who disagree just because the other guy did. That would not be change, that would be a continuation of the old policies.

Some things that you have to ask yourself in the future when he is willing to make a compromise. What are his goals? Does this compromise adversely affect his goals?

I think that in the future we will find that if there is opposition to something that he feels to be paramount to the success of his intended goals, he will fight strongly and brilliantly.

Now, don't forget, this is coming from someone who is still opposed to actions being taken by this new administration. I almost fear him more than I fear his predecessor because this man is brilliant. If he surprises me and begins to implement what is really needed, I would no longer fear him, but fear for him. I would fear for him so much that (Not that it would be accepted), I would be willing to guard his body with my very life.

I want you to understand something. IF he crosses the line, IF he veer's to far from the path of the globalist's agenda, THEY will do to him what they did to JFK, our last true president.

When your keepers become your enemy, there is no protection.

Crimson.

Tax`cuts stimulated the economy back when the wealthy re-invested in America rather than overseas opportunities.

"Best choice" is very subjective. It does not matter that I agree with you.

Listen. If you have noticed, in all of my time on this board, (or anywhere else for that matter), I have ALWAYS looked at opposing points of view from the other side (other than one who went by the name of buckshot). In other words, I have attempted to try and visualize things the way they see it.

Something that may or may not surprise you is that over these years, I have made friends with those who have been driven from this board. NOT because I have come to agree with them, but because though I still disagree with them, I am willing to treat them with respect and listen openly to their point of view. As long as there is no promotion of hate, predijuce, or war/murder I am willing to listen. (Unfortunately, I am beginning to let hate overtake me because of the predijuce and war I have seen for most of my life, I am beginning to lose an internal battle. Any ideas as to how to prevent this? This is a different subject altogether. Never mind:))

My point is that in order to win ANY battles, you have to pick and choose what is MOST important. In the overall scheme of the bill, (no matter than I think it will fail to do what they hope), the subject being discussed is of little importance to the overall intended objective of the bill which is supposedly to jump start the economy.

We cannot make the mistake of fighting all battles on all fronts simultaneously. If we do this we will lose. We have to prioritize that which is most important. We are not going to get everything we would like. We will be lucky to get even a small percentage of what we would like.

There are other far more pressing matters. Far more pressing by a magnitude of staggering proportions. This is NOT a fight to worry about RIGHT NOW.

As far as the Republicans hating him. Yes, for sure there are some that do. For them there is no hope of swaying and they are not the target. The target is and always should be the moderates.

Extremism is bad. I do not care if you are on the left or the right, both lead to tyranny, both think that they have the right to force their ideals upon others.

This has to stop if we have any hopes of advancing.

I think Obama realizes this.

I never thought I would say this in my lifetime, but we have a president who is truly a force to be reckoned with. If he decides to go rogue and deviate from the globalist's agenda, every single American should be willing to lay down their life in order to protect him.

We will see.

I like these analogies APL.

I disagree a little bit on your second one though.

I think that everyone with an income of less than say 100k should pay no taxes. Anyone with an income of 100 to 300k should pay 10% 300k to 500k 20% 500k and over a flat 30%. All of these with no loopholes.

Additionally, Profits should be taxed. (do not confuse profits with income. They are different). At a set percentage per some monetary breakdown.
However, once profits reach into some of the absurd amounts seen at this point in time, 50% should be taken. There is a certain point when profit taking is outright selfish greed.

AND, any company that moved from this country to another country for "slave labor" to increase their massive profits even further should never ever be allowed to sell an item in this country.

Of course.....I've been told I'm an extremist.

Hoyer to GOP: Bipartisanship does not mean capitulation.

Today, House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-MD) had a message for Republicans complaining about the stimulus bill: “Being bipartisan does not mean having to lay down and say we’ll do whatever you want.” His comments came after President Obama met earlier with congressional Republicans to discuss their concerns about the package, which is scheduled to be voted on in the House tomorrow. Hours before that meeting, House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-OH) urged Republicans to oppose the bill unless Democrats make significant concessions. Hoyer called it “very unfortunate” that Boehner “set the stage [by saying], ‘Yeah, you’re coming up here, but we’re voting against you.’” He added, “It takes two parties and two groups to be bipartisan. Bi means two.”

At the link, there's also an update from Digby.

AND HERE'S ANOTHER LINK:

Unable To Come Up With Real Reasons To Oppose Economic Recovery, Hutchison Goes Into Auto-Attack

And these links prove what?

I could also go to a right wing site and put up multiple posts stating that it is in fact the Democrats who are being inflexible in their partisanship by stating that either you take the whole bill as is or you can go screw yourself.

It is still the same old right wing, left wing battle. WE HAVE NOTHING TO GAIN FROM CONTINUING ON THIS PATH!!!

I believe that Obama understands this.

Listen to me Cat. I love you right to death, I hope you know that. I think that you have a good heart.

I do not expect to sway you, I can only give you another perspective. Whether you are able to recognize what it is that I am saying or not is out of both of our hands. I can only tell you what I see, what I believe to be true which is admittedly subjective.

I do not care what those on the left or the right say. I never have. I have to make my own judgment based on what I THINK it is that Obama is trying to accomplish based upon his actions.

Now, if those on the left want to hang him for this little (what they consider to be) infraction then so be it. I consider it to be both insignificant and inconsequential in the scheme of things. If you want to judge him negatively for something then I have a list that is already long, and growing that ARE real crimes, and it seems to be crimes that both the left and the right choose to ignore as they focus on something as petty as to whether funds should or should not go to planned parenthood.

We have just experienced 8 years of a president who was not flexible, would not even talk to the other party, who hid everything that he did, and who forced things down the throats of any opposition.

Do you want more of this? Can you justify it as long as it is YOUR agenda?

He promised change in Washington. Are you willing to crucify him because he is willing to try and bring this change? Was it not you who wrote not to long ago to give him a chance?

Once again. Pick your battles. This one is unimportant. If you fight all battles on all fronts you ARE GOING TO LOSE.


Crimson.

Good grief, Crimson! Give it a rest! Relax. Believe me, you've convinced me that you're bi-partisan, and I'm happy for you. In fact, I never thought of you as anything else, even when you were posting here before your long absence. Hang loose and don't have kittens if you see that I've posted a topic that might be controversial or that might generate some heat...eventually. I don't prefer caged discussions, although sometimes they are the best kind and often create some of the best out of the box thinking.

This thread was begun as a QUESTION, a discussion starter. It's meant to generate discussion! Agree or disagree, I'm not going to get on a soap box about it. There are thousands of articles being written about this topic, and as the admin of this board, I prefer to find lots of interesting topics similar to it to post in this particular forum. Some of the topics are controversial. Great! They are the ones I more or less look for to post here to get members to be aware of them and to talk about them. As I search, I might find information that makes me sit up and take notice, and say..."hmmm.."maybe, just maybe, there are two, or three, or even four sides to the stories.

SURPRISED? You shouldn't be. That's what admins and mods of discussion boards do... :wink:

A question? A question??

My fault then. I did not read it as such. I would have worded it much differently.

My answer then is no, the move is brilliant and this man is potentially either the greatest president who has ever graced this nation or the most dangerous man the world has ever seen.

Only time will tell.

CE wrote:


Well, you're right in that statement, especially in how it pertains to the sorest Republicans and some of the more conservative Democrats. Personally, I don't think at the present time that Obama is actually "caving." I think he's playing smart politics and, as APL said, he's compromising so that he can get in what he perceives as the most important elements of the bill while giving up some of the less important. I watched the press conference held this afternoon and thought Robert Gibbs did a very good job of analyzing the bill to the media.

What has made the "old guard" of both parties a bit dizzy is that Obama seems to be genuinely interested in being as non-partisan as he promised he would be, particularly on economic matters. Being genuine is something DC has forgotten about over the last eight years. Obama has been in office one week....what a ride he's going to take us on if he continues behaving in the calm, cool, and collected way that he's been doing. I just hope he's as successful in his first 100 days as he was during the last few months of the campaign.