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 Post subject: Single Payer Health Care
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:41 am 
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"Why Not Single Payer?" A Response to Paul Krugman and the Leading Democratic Presidential Contenders. Part 1. by Miles Mogulescu

I must admit, this is a big factor in my decision on who to vote for. So far, the only person who has the right answer is Kucinich, and he isn't going to get the nod.

It is shameful we are the only so called 'first world' country that doesn't have single payer care.

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 Post subject: Re: Single Payer Health Care
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:42 pm 
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dori wrote:
"Why Not Single Payer?" A Response to Paul Krugman and the Leading Democratic Presidential Contenders. Part 1. by Miles Mogulescu

I must admit, this is a big factor in my decision on who to vote for. So far, the only person who has the right answer is Kucinich, and he isn't going to get the nod.

It is shameful we are the only so called 'first world' country that doesn't have single payer care.


There is a good reason for that. Ask any right-wing Republican and/or regressive Libertarian and they will tell you that national health care can't work. We can't get health care in the US, but we seem to have a corner on the market of regressive right-wingers.

Quote:
The Health Care System Under French National Health Insurance: Lessons for Health Reform in the United States

Victor G. Rodwin, PhD, MPH

Victor G. Rodwin is with the Wagner School, New York University, New York, NY, and the World Cities Project, New York, a joint venture of NYU Wagner and the International Longevity Center-USA.

The French health system combines universal coverage with a public–private mix of hospital and ambulatory care and a higher volume of service provision than in the United States. Although the system is far from perfect, its indicators of health status and consumer satisfaction are high; its expenditures, as a share of gross domestic product, are far lower than in the United States; and patients have an extraordinary degree of choice among providers.

Lessons for the United States include the importance of government’s role in providing a statutory framework for universal health insurance; recognition that piecemeal reform can broaden a partial program (like Medicare) to cover, eventually, the entire population; and understanding that universal coverage can be achieved without excluding private insurers from the supplementary insurance market.


http://www.ajph.org/cgi/content/abstract/93/1/31


Nope, universal health care can't work.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:07 pm 
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It can't work because the corporations don't want it to work. Doctors think it can work:

Quote:
The U.S. spends twice as much as other industrialized nations on health care, $7,129 per capita. Yet our system performs poorly in comparison and still leaves 47 million without health coverage and millions more inadequately covered.

This is because private insurance bureaucracy and paperwork consume one-third (31 percent) of every health care dollar. Streamlining payment though a single nonprofit payer would save more than $350 billion per year, enough to provide comprehensive, high-quality coverage for all Americans.





[url=http://www.pnhp.org/]Single-Payer National Health Insurance
[/url]

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:51 pm 
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I've heard recently that France is broke. I think I heard it on NPR. I'll see what I can dig up.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:21 am 
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CrimsonEagle wrote:
I've heard recently that France is broke. I think I heard it on NPR. I'll see what I can dig up.


Yeah, France is broke. I'm sure glad the good ol' USA isn't broke. I'll see what I can dig up.

Welcome to Trade Ticker - the web's only up-to-the-second counter for the U.S. Trade Deficit.

U.S. NATIONAL DEBT CLOCK

Whew! Good thing we didn't fall into the trap of giving health care to our citizens here in the good ol' USA. Otherwise, we might also be in debt, just like those stupid French who are dumb enough to provide for all of their people, regardless of social or economic position. When they see the trade and governmental balances of our unregulated capitalist system, that'll teach those foolish socialists a thing or two.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:14 am 
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Geez...don't tell me China owns France as well as the US!

Quote:
Foreign companies are buying up our water systems, our power generating systems, our mines, and our few remaining factories. All because "flat world" so-called "free trade" policies have turned us from a nation of wealthy producers into a nation of indebted consumers, leaving the world awash in dollars that are most easily used to buy off big chunks of America. As www.economyincrisis.com notes, US Government statistics indicate the following percentages of foreign ownership of American industry:

· Sound recording industries - 97%
· Commodity contracts dealing and brokerage - 79%
· Motion picture and sound recording industries - 75%
· Metal ore mining - 65%
· Motion picture and video industries - 64%
· Wineries and distilleries - 64%
· Database, directory, and other publishers - 63%
· Book publishers - 63%
· Cement, concrete, lime, and gypsum product - 62%
· Engine, turbine and power transmission equipment - 57%
· Rubber product - 53%
· Nonmetallic mineral product manufacturing - 53%
· Plastics and rubber products manufacturing - 52%
· Plastics product - 51%
· Other insurance related activities - 51%
· Boiler, tank, and shipping container - 50%
· Glass and glass product - 48%
· Coal mining - 48%
· Sugar and confectionery product - 48%
· Nonmetallic mineral mining and quarrying - 47%
· Advertising and related services - 41%
· Pharmaceutical and medicine - 40%
· Clay, refractory, and other nonmetallic mineral products - 40%
· Securities brokerage - 38%
· Other general purpose machinery - 37%
· Audio and video equipment mfg and reproducing magnetic and optical media - 36%
· Support activities for mining - 36%
· Soap, cleaning compound, and toilet preparation - 32%
· Chemical manufacturing - 30%
· Industrial machinery - 30%
· Securities, commodity contracts, and other financial investments and related activities - 30%
· Other food - 29%
· Motor vehicles and parts - 29%
· Machinery manufacturing - 28%
· Other electrical equipment and component - 28%
· Securities and commodity exchanges and other financial investment activities - 27%
· Architectural, engineering, and related services - 26%
· Credit card issuing and other consumer credit - 26%
· Petroleum refineries (including integrated) - 25%
· Navigational, measuring, electromedical, and control instruments - 25%
· Petroleum and coal products manufacturing - 25%
· Transportation equipment manufacturing - 25%
· Commercial and service industry machinery - 25%
· Basic chemical - 24%
· Investment banking and securities dealing - 24%
· Semiconductor and other electronic component - 23%
· Paint, coating, and adhesive - 22%
· Printing and related support activities - 21%
· Chemical product and preparation - 20%
· Iron, steel mills, and steel products - 20%
· Agriculture, construction, and mining machinery - 20%
· Publishing industries - 20%
· Medical equipment and supplies - 20%


http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0227-20.htm



Quote:
China owns $400 billion of USA public debt.
The USA has a $725.8 billion trade imbalance with China.
China hacked into USA Defense Department computers.
13 million toys made in China recalled in USA because of lead paint.
China makes 80% of the toys sold in the USA.
81% of counterfeit goods seized in the USA are made in China.
China made poisoned pet food that fed many animals.
China makes up one-fifth of the world’s population with 1.3 billion people.
The USA has a population of 300 million.
China is the world leader in the production of stainless steel.
The People’s Liberation Army now believe “cyber attacks” on USA government computers will serve as the first shot in any future conflict as they “turn us off” before the bombs and bullets fly.


The United States of China is here — and we’re all a part of it and we’re all already a slave to its economic and military desires — and we should all be prepared to “eat lead” in more ways than one
.


http://urbansemiotic.com/2007/10/08/the ... -of-china/

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:31 am 
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Those figures are staggering!

But hey, our rich people are doing very well, and our government people are living on our tax dollars.

Does anyone else count?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:53 am 
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dori wrote:
Those figures are staggering!

But hey, our rich people are doing very well, and our government people are living on our tax dollars.

Does anyone else count?


Not to them. They've got their's. And unfortunately, millions of Americans willingly go along with this horrible inequity. The Europeans have socialized national health care because they demand it. The difference between the US and Europe is that Americans are afraid of our government, while European governments are afraid of their people, so they do as the people demand.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 10:11 am 
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Quote:
The difference between the US and Europe is that Americans are afraid of our government, while European governments are afraid of their people, so they do as the people demand.


Problem is, our people have been lobotomized by the owned and paid for main stream media. We are not supposed to know anything different than what they have told us.

Seems to have worked pretty well, eh?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:53 pm 
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Currently the -- Government Pays Growing Share Of Health Costs

According to the article:

... some analysts [say] that the U.S. is creeping toward a single-payer system in a disorganized, piecemeal way.

Quote:
By JANE ZHANG and VANESSA FUHRMANS
February 21, 2007

WASHINGTON -- As pressure grows for the government to pick up more of the nation's health-care tab, new data show its contribution is already at 45% and is expected to approach 50% within 10 years.

The government's widening role in financing health care stems from the recent expansion of Medicare to include prescription drugs, the growth of relatively new initiatives like the State Children's Health Insurance Program, increased spending by enrollees in programs like Medicaid -- which covers many of the sickest patients -- and cutbacks in employer-sponsored health coverage.

Overall, health spending in the U.S. is expected to double to $4.1 trillion by 2016, consuming 20% of the nation's gross domestic product, up from the current 16%, according to a new federal study. By then, the study predicts, the government will be paying 48.7% of the nation's health-care bill, up from 38% in 1970 and 40% in 1990.
...

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 6:09 am 
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Speaking of Medicare Part D, the perscription drug portion, chalk another one up for Rs. This is a huge payoff for pharma, the people who bought and paid for the votes to get it installed.

Talk to anyone who needs many perscriptions. The 'retail price' of those perscriptions has sky rocketed! Government is paying part of that price--because it is written into the bill that those prices can't be negotiated. Pharma can put any price it wants to on any drug. And believe me, it does!

The remainder is payed out of pocket. You hit the 'doughnut hole' and government pays nothing. Those huge 'retail prices' come straight from the person who needs the perscription.

With all the money government is putting into this program, there are still many MANY people out here who cannot afford the medicines they need. Thank you Republicans.

So why do you have to be rich to be able to afford an illness? Because America believes sickness is a luxury?

And now America believes children should fend for themselves--why put the burden of childhood health/illness on the backs of everyday people? After all, we take care of ourselves, we don't care about anybody else, right?

As for SCHIP, get a site pass and read Salon's take.

The Republicans vs. the injured child

Plus, I am assuming you have heard of the attacks on the twelve year old boy who gave that response to the President's address about why he vetoed SCHIP. Here is an article about who backed it.

Was A McConnell Staffer Behind The Campaign To Smear The 12-Yr Old SCHIP Recipient?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:37 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:55 pm 
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Went scrolling around the net today to see if there were any other forums that targeted TV News lies specifically...check out some of the comments at this one particular site. What amazes me is that some people really think Fox News actually tells the truth while all the other news media lie! :roll: :shock:

http://www.mediabistro.com/bbs/cache/t35459_1.asp

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 6:22 am 
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Crimedog and soulman are interesting. All the others sound like my neighbors. Yes, they really say/believe these things.

Tell me just one lie Fox News has told--just one. You list a dozen, and they say, tell me one lie Fox News has told--just one.

It drives a person crazy trying to talk with them...


On Edit: today is the vote on SCHIP. Listen if you are able to do so.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:35 pm 
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According to this UAW editorial, the Veterans Administration is a model of sorts for single payer health care.

Quote:
Walter Reed is run by the Department of Defense, not the Veterans Administration, which continues to operate one of the most highly-regarded medical systems in the United States. The VA demonstrates many of the benefits of single-payer health care, with a sole source of funding that creates accountability, and the capacity to record and retrieve patient information at VA facilities throughout the nation.

The VA health system consistently receives high satisfaction ratings from patients and is a recognized leader in the use of technology to improve the quality of care. In 2004, the VA health system won the Malcolm Baldridge Prize for quality and patient safety improvements.


Although the article focuses on stabilizing the funding for the VA, there's something to be explored, here, in whether the VA single payer model could be extended to a national model.

The Clinton admin was credited with cleaning up the VA system.

Quote:
Under President Clinton, a revamped government-run health care program became a model of efficiency, cost control, patient satisfaction and medical excellence that beat the private sector on every measure. Believe it or not, this medical miracle was called the VA, which by 1998 had become a model for what single-payer care could accomplish. Bush's government-can-do-nothing-right crowd destroyed the evidence with cuts, cronyism and deliberate underestimates of war casualty numbers -- one of the great untold scandals of this presidency. But the Clinton VA model proved affordable health care for all can be achieved in the US. Conversion costs from our current broken system could easily require a $200 billion upfront investment, but the savings from a VA-style national HMO that finally reined in out-of-control consumer medical costs- the single largest cause of personal bankruptcy in America -- would pay for itself over and over.

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