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 Post subject: Indicting 9/11 Smoking Gun Discovered - Plane Impact Times
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 12:36 am 
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Indicting 9/11 Smoking Gun Discovered - Plane Impact Time Discrepancies

The facts are simple and few, yet extremely powerful for what they mean: US Government complicity in 9/11/01.

Facts by themselves are simple and mean something, but these facts lead to a true smoking gun. I know of no other regarding 9/11. Do you? A smoking gun that can be given in a court of law?

What is presented here is no theory. It is factual data of “impact times” from Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory at Columbia University (LDEO) that differs significantly from factual data of impact times given in the 9/11 Commission’s Final Report.

LDEO
Link: http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/LCSN/Eq/20010911_wtc.html
(note: all times precise to plus or minus 1 to 2 seconds)



9/11 Commission Timeline
Link: http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/index.html
(note: both impact times are the only ones on the page precise to the second)



This is the data:

[“Impact Times”]
LDEO
8:46:26 and 9:02:54

[Actual Impact Times]
9/11 Commission
8:46:40 and 9:03:11

Respective Differences
14 seconds
17 seconds

After reflecting upon these timing discrepancies and what they mean, indicting evidence appears of something very wrong with the official explanation about what happened. Lest we forget, America still owes it to those who perished on 9/11, and their families and friends, to get to the bottom of this; justice has yet to be served on those responsible.

Both impacts are important. This happened twice, and comparing LDEO versus the 9/11 Commission Report, there are similar time disparities (respective differences of 14 and 17 seconds). Consider these as extremely close to the differential, because when consideration is given to the seismic wave, amplitude, and duration, understand that the dominant period is extremely short and occurs near the beginning of the signal.

We have LDEO on record stating times of plus or minus 1 to 2 seconds, which is a high degree of precision. Would they publish if a 95% level of confidence had not been achieved for the data? No. LDEO was then (and still is) a prestigious scientific entity; and no one has challenged their data for 9/11/01. We should trust their seismic data.

Is there any expected time delay between the initiation of the "impact" pulse and the reception of the seismic signal? From study, it is understood that this factor is already accounted for in the software logic used. Besides, if this were a factor, it would make the disparity greater, thereby yielding even greater time differences; however, the differences we have already are compelling.

Two questions:
(1) Is there any motive behind having two sets of impact times?
(2) What is the significance, if any, of having two different sets of impact times?

Addressing Question (1): Motive probably had nothing to do with our now having two different sets of impact times; also, more than likely, no one lied in all this with the information each entity published. Probably the 9/11 Commission made a simple error of missed oversight. They should have noticed the disparity in impact times and looked into the matter. This is their error. They never saw the disparities, or, if they did, they never attempted to resolve them. Then, years later, somebody happened to notice them by chance. The Commission either did not care, did not bother to ask LDEO, did not consider it at all, or, more than likely, was not even aware of the Lamont-Doherty seismic data regarding “impact times”. If they had known, someone at the Commission would surely have envisioned possible future repercussions of having two sets of factual data on impact times (such as is happening now). This would be (and now is) a conflict of data from two highly reliable sources—something that is to be avoided in one’s life and affairs. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

The problem probably came about by having two different groups of people working during two different time periods. They just happened to intersect on a single data point [aircraft impact time] by either accident, neglect, or whatever. Actually, it was the Commission who did the “intersecting” as LDEO was published long before the Commission came into being. LDEO did their job on 9/11 and believed at the time that their seismic data, precise to the second, represented the impacts on the towers (this is key because what they thought were “impacts” is now brought into question). Another key here is “at the time”. Think about it. LDEO had these two small seismic spikes at the general time of the impacts, so they must have naturally thought they were the impacts. This is understandable, especially in the light of that horrible day.

However, the 9/11 Commission’s precision times came much later, at a different time period, and only after much analysis and effort. They are basically based upon: "We have determined that the impact time was 9:03:11 based on our analysis of FAA radar data and air traffic control software logic." [9/11 Commission Report, pg 460, Note 130]:

http://www.insightful.com/infact/911/co ... 0_460.html
(Note 130 is the basis for WTC1 & WTC2 precision impact times to the second)



This is an entirely different set of data than LDEO, but it too is highly accurate and precise; e.g., consider the technology needed and used in the space program; and although different, these technologies are similar in many ways; and one critical way they are similar is that they both must be precise in the area of timing; and so they are. It is known that the FAA tracked AA Flight 11 under four different stations using Primary Radar Return, and all times were being recorded to the second.

So, this is probably how these two extremely precise but different data sets came about for the same event (plane impact) and appear before us now. However, it does not matter how they came into being. What is important is that both sets are precise to the second.

Also important is: Are the two data sets correct?

As pointed out above, the LDEO set should be correct. The 9/11 Commission’s set should be trustworthy as well. This is because both entities came up with their conclusive data under similar conditions and constraints: required, high precision parameters; working in the face of high visibility in the wake of a national tragedy; and finally, the general understanding of what these entities were attempting to do (i.e., to get it right). There is no reason to disbelieve either data set.

Addressing Question (2): What is the significance, if any, of the different impact times?
Yes, there is significance and it goes to the next level; this is the heart of the matter.

The Commission Report must have the correct impact times because this is what they were specifically looking at: flight data that ultimately ended at precise terminations (to the second) when the towers were struck. There is no question: precisely, AA Flight 77 died at 8:46:40 and UA Flight 175 at 9:03:11 [EDT]. So, if the planes impacted the towers at those times, what were these earlier times as noted by LDEO due to notable seismic spikes (~14 and ~17 seconds earlier)?

What first caught my eye last week about this was the implausibility of “impact times” by LDEO. I thought, “How can such a huge jet airliner impact WTC1 above the 90th floor and we end up with energy transference traveling all the way down to the earth (even through the massive multi-level sub-basement structure) sufficiently so as to be picked up by LDEO as a seismic spike?” This still makes no sense. Energy from the impact should have been mostly absorbed by the building’s immense structure and mass.

Then I recalled reading a while back about accounts of people who experienced explosions down in the basements before the planes struck. The following is an excerpt about one of them, an eyewitness at WTC1 by the name of William Rodriguez:

http://www.newswithviews.com/Spingola/deanna17.htm

-------
Arriving at 8:30 on the morning of 9-11 he went to the maintenance office located on the first sublevel, one of six sub-basements beneath ground level. There were a total of fourteen people in the office at that same time. As he was discussing the day’s tasks with others, there was a very loud massive explosion which seemed to emanate from between sub-basement B2 and B3. There were an additional twenty-two people on B2 sub-basement who also felt and heard that first explosion.

At first he thought it was a generator that had exploded. But the cement walls in the office cracked from the explosion. “When I heard the sound of the explosion, the floor beneath my feet vibrated, the walls started cracking and everything started shaking.” said Rodriguez, who was crowded together with fourteen other people in the office including Anthony Saltamachia, his supervisor for the American Building Maintenance Company.

Just seconds later there was another explosion way above which made the building oscillate momentarily. This, he was later told, was a plane hitting the tower at about the 90th floor. Upon hearing about the plane, he immediately thought of the people up in the restaurant. Then there were other explosions just above B1 and individuals started heading for the loading dock to escape the explosion’s resulting rampant fire. When asked later about those first explosions he said: “I would know if an explosion was from the bottom or the top of the building.” He heard explosions both before and after the plane hit the tower.
-------

This provides the plausible answer as to what LDEO picked up as a seismic spike moments before the plane struck the tower.

Again, the question: What caused the earlier seismic spike picked up by LDEO?

There are only two logical choices: either (A) a true seismic event (a very small earthquake tremor; and, yes, this would mean the eyewitnesses who said explosions happened before the plane struck are not telling the truth), or (B) very large explosion(s).

It could not possibly have been a very small earthquake. Why? Because this same, exact scenario happened again a few minutes later at WTC2, both spikes occurring within a brief 15-minute period under the most unusual circumstances. The odds of this happening by chance go beyond the pale, beyond the realms of possibility (you don’t need to be a statistician to see this). This only happens when man is involved.

The earlier seismic spikes had to have been (B): very large explosion(s). Middle Eastern terrorists could not possibly have been responsible; they do not have the wherewithal for this kind of scale.

It is more than remarkable that the 9/11 Commission, although it did hear the testimony of William Rodriguez regarding the explosions in the basements, did not deem this important enough to be included in their Final Report.

It should have been.

This is what really happened:

Explosion(s) Meant to Coincide……………
[“Impact Times”]
LDEO
8:46:26 and 9:02:54

Respective Differences
14 seconds
17 seconds

With

……………Planes Impacting Towers
[Actual Impact Times]
9/11 Commission
8:46:40 and 9:03:11

(The explosions were more than likely done to prepare the buildings for final controlled demolition later by implosion.)

To sum up: This is no conspiracy theory. Why?
This is not theory. These are facts.

But it is definitely a conspiracy.

This isn’t rocket science (it is simple).
This is the smoking gun (it is solid evidence).
It has legs (knowledge of this is now spreading).
And this dog can hunt.

What must be done? Two extremely important things:

(1) A new independent, quasi-private-public, non-politicized 9/11 investigation must be formed at once to approach and pursue this for what it really is: the crime of the century. America needs good police detective work here—and the conspirators need to be identified, apprehended, jailed, and brought to justice…now.

(2) The 9/11 Commission and the Bush Administration must answer this question immediately:

WHAT CAUSED THOSE SEISMIC SPIKES?

They must answer, they must answer now—and if they don’t, it is the same as admitting guilt.

The entire US Government is not bad; just the few rogue conspirators who did 9/11—those who committed mass murder, treason, and betrayal to America.

May God help us.
Craig T. Furlong
Huntington Beach, CA USA
July 31, 2006

PS IMPORTANT—please send this message far and wide!


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 12:16 pm 
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Welcome Q&TD. These facts have been known for years but have not been acknowledged. Nice of you to give this information as it truly is a smoking gun. The 911 Omission report certainly lived up to its name as they were to report only on what they were "Comissioned" to say. The omission part isobvious- the truth based on facts and mistakes made MUST be omitted. The Rodrigues incident should be proof enough that there was some foul play at work, but true to form facts from eye witnesses were ignored. He was a hero for saving so many people and supposedly the last person to leave the building before it collapsed. He was a brave man who could have just gone along with the story, but chose to side with truth and principles. Of course he has been ignored and forgotten.

It has been said that one should follow the money if you want to find the truth. Here's a story of the CIA some of the key players in CIA’s history, and dirty trade on the stock exchange. Someone or some group knew about 911 before it happened and spread their money around.

http://www.hereinreality.com/insidertrading.html

One wonders how much damning evidence is necessary to respond to what is now irrefutable proof that CIA knew about the attacks and did not stop them. Whatever our government is doing, whatever the CIA is doing, it is clearly NOT in the interests of the American people, especially those who died on September 11.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 12:41 am 
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DO.g's wrote:
The Rodrigues incident should be proof enough that there was some foul play at work, but true to form facts from eye witnesses were ignored. He was a hero for saving so many people and supposedly the last person to leave the building before it collapsed. He was a brave man who could have just gone along with the story, but chose to side with truth and principles. Of course he has been ignored and forgotten.


When you couple the testimonies of Rodriguez et al with the seismic confirmation herein provided, their testimonies ARE ALIVE AND WELL--and hopefully all of this will soon be breathing fire down the conspirators' necks!

Their coverup is beginning to unravel...

Thanks for the welcome, DO.g!


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 4:07 am 
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Welcome to TVNL, QnTD...I hope you've taken time to look through all of the information and discussions that have taken place in this forum, as well as within the rest of the site.

If you have, you've noted that a lot of folks here have seen Confronting the Evidence and you've visited the site http://www.reopen911.org

Catherine

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 12:28 pm 
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Plus st911.org and Steven Jones fine work. We're just glad that someone else is willing to look at the evidence and go beyond the propagandized rhetoric of the elite and theirdumbed down servile masses to see another possibible explanation. These so called 'Facts" of the Government, MSM and general publics view are nothing more than an "Official Conspiracy Theory" that has been manufactured and maintained by questionable realities that don't add up. It is there to continue the ruse of a simpler plan that guides our decision making, one that adds up to create a legitimate rraison d'etre that we swallow. Your post illustrates that a little knowledge and thinking can lead to only one conclusion- that 911 was known and that certain people in our government aided and abetted its happening for their own reasons. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out, but you have to be able to think and reason beyond the spoonfed propaganda of the masses, who do npthing for freedom and democracy by obeying their 'Patriotic" duty.

The enactment of restrictions to our freedoms and the attack on the constitution in the name of security have done nothing but make America more dangerous and insecure in a world that is bent on dividing and conquering the people, both here and around the world. It is nothing more than a bid for societal control and manipulation of resources by those who have the most to gain. Meanwhile the poor of the world are being played off against each other, and even in America, no matter how poor you are you have the freedom to hate your brother for being poor and oppressed- while at home, it is no different for you.

And all for the sake of someone elses profits, we are willing to go to wars that they concoct with Red Herrings like 911, so those who make the rules can profit off the sweat, blood and misery of the poor of the world- even here in America- and we just go along with this facade of decency, diplomacy and destruction.

The saying goes- If it ain't broke, then don't fix it- is fine until someone rises up and breaks it. The constant state of fear, oppression and manipulation by our worlds elite is all they rely on to maintain their control. When it crashes though, it comes down just like the twin towers, a well planned, fast, controlled demolition. It 's up to people to rise up and become aware of the dangerous game we're being led into. But we're more content on sleepwalking to the end of the world.

Thanks for waking up.

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madness the only freedom

An ability to see both sides of a question
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People don't choose to be dishonest
the choice chooses them

Now I know how Kusinich feels.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 6:46 pm 
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Beautifully, beautifully said, DO.g's!

You have a wonderful grasp on reality and way of presenting it!

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 6:59 pm 
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Ditto! Very well said DO.g's :)


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