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 Post subject: TVNL: Wrong about Silverstein "pull it" quote.
PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:09 pm 
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"On 9/11, by his own admission, Larry Silverstein ordered the demolition of his building. In February of 2002, his company won a settlement of $861 million from Industrial Risk Insurers. Do the math. No one investigated. This is a confession to the demolition of Building 7. Let me repeat that, THIS IS A CONFESSION! Checkmate."

-----------------------------------------------

This claim is utterly without merit. It degrades the credibility of most of the "truth" movement. Silverstein's comment does not mean what is claimed, and this amounts to a lie. "Truthers" refuse to reexamine their claims even after it is explained in the most minute detail.

You have to step back, and take in the possibility that you are wrong on
this one. Further, that putting this claim out there is fundamentally
damaging to credibility. Silverstein admitted no such thing. His quote
does not confirm demoltion.

He wasn't even talking about the building at all, but about the
firefighting relief effort ("pull" the firefighting operation):

"I remember getting a call from the, er, fire department commander,"

Are you alleging that this NY City Fire Department Commander was part of
the conspiracy? Without corroboration of any kind? Without even a name?
Without showing one piece of evidence linking the fire department to the demolition of the building? This would be laughed out of court.

"telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire,"

That's the point of the phone call! How can you make the galactic
leap from "not being able to contain the fire" to all of a sudden the NYFD is blowing up buildings!


"and I said, 'We've had such terrible loss of life, "

"Loss of life" is the subject of this exchange. Since hundreds
of firemen were inside a burning building (owned/controlled by
Silverstein) AND they didn't think they were going to be able to
contain it, then OBVIOUSLY:

"maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it.'

Yes, obviously, the smartest thing was to pull the operation, get the men
out and keep them from giving their lives in defense of property.

"And they made that decision to pull,"

This is not in dispute. The firefighters indeed left the building.

" and we watched the building collapse. (PBS, 2002)"

If he's admitting to imploding and demolishing the building, then why
does he call it a "collapse?"

This 'evidence' is a bad joke. Silverstein has admitted to
nothing, and most of the 9-11 truth seekers have made themselves look like abject idiots (myself included).

This is what I have sent to Dr. Griffin, and similar messages have been
sent to all the "scholars."

What response I have gotten at all (from James Fetzer) has been to call me an FBI agent. So much for scholarly inquiry.

Re: Larry Silverstein:

-------------------------------------

"It is very puzzling, to be sure, that Silverstein, who was ready to
receive billions of dollars in insurance payments for building 7 and
the rest of the World Trade Center complex, on the assumption that they
had been destroyed by acts of terrorism, would have made such a
statement in public, especially with TV cameras running. But his
assertion that building 7 was brought down by explosives, whatever the
motive behind it, explains why and how it collapsed."
-------------------------------------


Dr. Griffin,

The Silverstein quote "pull it" has been widely misinterpreted.
This can potentially damage credibility.

The evidence does not suggest that
Silverstein is referring to controlled demolition, but to the firefighting relief effort ('pull' the men out...)

-------------------------------------

"I remember getting a call from the, er, fire department commander,
telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain
the fire, and I said, 'We've had such terrible loss of life,
maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it.'[76] And they made that decision to
pull, and we watched the building collapse. (PBS, 2002) [77]
-------------------------------------


Silverstein is referring to the "they" that precedes the "pull" statement, NOT to the "collapse" that comes later.

There is no reason to assume that Silverstein -- an investor and
landlord -- would be bandying
about industry jargon such as "pull" to
refer to a building demolition. Nothing suggests that he would understand that term in that context.

Certainly, he had no motive to say such a thing during an interview.
Therefore, the most logical explanation is the simple misunderstanding
on the part of overzealous 9-11 researchers.


"Pull it," refers to pulling out the fire crews from Building 7. Simple.


Whether Silverstein had additional information that the building was
wired for demolition is another story. He may have known of the
impending demoltion, and therefore wanted to spare the fire crews from certain death. This is a definite possibility.


The "pull it" quote, however, is not evidence of controlled demolition, merely of Silverstein's position as an authority figure with the ability to order fire crews in and out of buildings.


------------------------------------


I will follow up later with other examples of misinformation that collectively are destroying the credibility of the movement.

I consider this a lynch pin topic, and write about it in many contexts. Giving the opposition ammo to use against you isn't smart.

Latest articles:

9/11: Pathetic "Left" Disinformation
http://crimesofthestate.blogspot.com/20 ... ation.html
"The ravings of Alexander Cockburn / CounterPunch (among others) and the Limits of Permissable Discourse Concerning 9/11"


9/11: Ignorance is Strength?
http://crimesofthestate.blogspot.com/20 ... ength.html
Response to Paul Campos, Commondreams.org and Rocky Mountain News.

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http://crimesofthestate.blogspot.com/


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 11:09 pm 
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Johndoraemi, I followed your links to your blog. You have presented your case better there.

I would appreciate it if you would post more clearly--for instance on this post I have a problem knowing who you are quoting. You are far more clear on your blog so I know you can make this understandable. Your quotes there are stated and sourced.

We work here to have clear meaning to our posts as well as links to sources. Please read the posting guidelines again and keep them in mind when posting.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 12:03 am 
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i'm not a conspiracy guy necessarily, just an observer of a lot of odd things on that day. the "pull it" statement is hardly central to believe in the possibility of a conspiracy. it's like any other small fact, it may or may not be true, and the loss of any one fact does not dismantle the whole, imo.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 7:24 am 
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Quote:
I will follow up later with other examples of misinformation that collectively are destroying the credibility of the movement


Unless you do a better job of posting your material, you won't be read at all. Learn how to use the posting window before you start to offer criticism.

Also, it's customary when coming onto a board as a newbie to read the posting guidelines and to introduce yourself within the proper forums. I haven't seen any evidence that you've done either of those things. Good manners usually separate those having a sincere interest in the truth of this issue from trolls and flamers.

Catherine

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"Behind every great fortune lies a great crime."
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That other party, they work for people who don't need help.
That's all there is to it."

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 4:01 pm 
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The first quote is from the TVNewsLies website:

"9/11 - ALL THE PROOF YOU NEED!" (It ISN'T)

The next series of quotes is Larry Silverstein in his own words in the PBS interview, parsed by each phrase.

The next block quote is from David Ray Griffin:
Destruction of the World Trade Center: Why the Official Account Cannot Be True
by Dr. David Ray Griffin


-- and what follows that is my letter to Griffin in response.

+

Another common error made by the 9-11 researchers is the Tom Kenney / Tom Kennedy issue, claiming that FEMA had arrived the night before the 9-11 attacks.

Mike Ruppert discredited this claim (by calling up the fireman Tom Kenney on the phone, and getting the misinformation cleared up.)

Ruppert:
Quote:

"Dan Rather also mispronounced Kenney's name as Kennedy, something many untrained 9/11 researchers thought suggestive of a conspiracy."

"I got a copy of the tape and watched it. On the screen you could clearly see the man's name was Kenney over one breast pocket and the word Hyannis appeared over the other. This was a lead."

"I called the Hyannis Fired Department in the summer of 2002 and spoke to the Chief. He said that Kenney was just exhausted and had misspoken. The Chief and all the families had been present when Kenney's crew left in trucks for New York on the night of 9/11."

[url=http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/060704_tripod_fema.html]TRIPOD II AND FEMA
Lack of NORAD Response on 9/11 Explained[/url]
by Michael C. Ruppert

More later.

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http://crimesofthestate.blogspot.com/


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 4:31 pm 
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That's better...thank you.

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"Behind every great fortune lies a great crime."
Honore de Balzac

"Democrats work to help people who need help.
That other party, they work for people who don't need help.
That's all there is to it."

~Harry S. Truman


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