Who loses in war?
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Author:  dori [ Sun May 20, 2007 4:01 am ]
Post subject:  Who loses in war?

We have a thread for American forces killed in Iraq, but that is the tip of the iceberg. Who else loses? This should also be a long list...

Death Toll for Contractors Reaches New High in Iraq By John M. Broder and James Risen
The New York Times

Saturday 19 May 2007

Washington - Casualties among private contractors in Iraq have soared to record levels this year, setting a pace that seems certain to turn 2007 into the bloodiest year yet for the civilians who work alongside the American military in the war zone, according to new government numbers.

At least 146 contract workers were killed in Iraq in the first three months of the year, by far the highest number for any quarter since the war began in March 2003, according to the Labor Department, which processes death and injury claims for those working as United States government contractors in Iraq.

That brings the total number of contractors killed in Iraq to at least 917, along with more than 12,000 wounded in battle or injured on the job, according to government figures and dozens of interviews.

The report goes on, but is prefaced with this note: Editor's Comment: This article makes no mention of those contractors most likely to sustain casualties: those referred to as "security contractors" - or mercenaries. Several private para-military organizations - funded by the US government - are currently operating in Iraq. Two such contractors are Blackwater Security and KBR. These forces are authorized to conduct military operations, often in direct support of US combat forces, but operate completely without oversight or accountability. Since The New York Times does not acknowledge their existence in this report, it is difficult to gauge what percentage are in fact US para-military operatives. However, based on the hazardous nature of the work they do, the numbers are likely to be high.

So many more--for instance, the Iraqis themselves. And so far we have just counted deaths, not injuries or other hardships that cripple lives.

A few win, many, many lose...

Author:  dori [ Sun May 20, 2007 5:10 am ]
Post subject:  Iraq body count

The worldwide update of reported civilian deaths in the Iraq war and occupation.

min 63929 max 70023

“We don’t do body counts”
General Tommy Franks, US Central Command

Author:  dori [ Sun May 20, 2007 5:22 am ]
Post subject:  Iraq body count

Other Coalition Troops -- 274

US Military Deaths - Afghanistan -- 390


U.S. lacks mechanism to accurately track troops wounded in Iraq By LORRAINE ASH

Although the article is over a year old, it does tell how difficult it is to figure out numbers for wounded.

It all counts up.

Author:  Catherine [ Thu May 24, 2007 4:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Feingold: Iraq deal means 1000 more dead US Soldiers

During an interview on MSNBC News Thursday, Sen. Russ Feingold (D-WI) expressed his disappointment with the lack of timelines in the Iraq War funding bill, but held back from bashing his fellow senators.

"I'm not just taking aim at Democrats," Feingold said. "This is George Bush's war."

"This is no time to back off," insisted Feingold. "We need to get back on track to end this war, because the American people want that."

In response to a question about whether there might be more support for imposing timelines next September, he answered, "You know what's going to happen in September? They'll bring General Petraeus back and he'll say just give me to the end of the year... A thousand more troops will lose their lives.... This should not wait till September." ... _0524.html


Author:  dori [ Thu May 24, 2007 4:52 pm ]
Post subject: 

Yes, Catherine. I have purposely avoided C-Span and C-Span 2 today because those votes possibly will come up and I do not want to witness them.

Have they all forgotten people continue to die every day while we are there? Their people, our people, every day!

Have they forgotten they won Congress because people want the war to end? Their people, our people.

Bush has lied on every utterence. There were no WMDs, Saddam is gone, THE OIL IS SECURE, our bases are going in--the ones that aren't supposed to be there at all. When the Generals didn't say what he wanted them to, he fired them and put new ones in that WOULD stay on script.

Meanwhile, people die every day...

Author:  cUDYXubu [ Fri May 25, 2007 7:54 am ]
Post subject: 

What happens is that everyone loses...the soldiers...the people back here...the people in Iraq and elsewhere.

The only one's who don't lose are the ones who start the wars and make the profits...gain the power.

They start the wars...the body bags come home...then the war is cemented in for a long duration.

The heroes come back with PTSD....or are proud of what they've done...perpetuating the whole war culture....selling it to the next generation.

The original excuses for the wars are lost in the whole sacrifice thing. The soldiers sacrifice...and then forget who sent them there and want to blame those who have the sense to see what is going on.

They got agent oranged in Nam...they're getting DUed in Raq...but they will likely line up for the next one.

If they can get one going in will be the same game.


Author:  dori [ Fri May 25, 2007 11:41 am ]
Post subject: 

Good posts, cUDYXubu. You have summed the run around very well.

Everyone loses except the war profiteers.

Author:  dori [ Sun May 27, 2007 4:47 am ]
Post subject: 

Iraq Vet: "My Brain Will Not Let Go"

How many people are coming back with this problem that will not go away. How do you face an 18, 19, 20 year old who has to live with this for heaven knows how long.

I have friends who have never gotten over their experiences in Nam. This will be no better...

Author:  Sir-Irate [ Sun May 27, 2007 10:33 pm ]
Post subject: 

When the people are really fed up and had enough, they'll be a draft. More Nams in spades.

Author:  dori [ Mon May 28, 2007 2:36 am ]
Post subject: 

Certainly people are talking far more about the chance of a draft now than they have before.

A draft would get Americans attention, eh?

Author:  DO.g's [ Mon May 28, 2007 2:41 pm ]
Post subject: 

When Americans do engage the draft, and it's inevitable, then it will be the final signal that we have gone beyond the tipping point. Europe, having lived through the nightmare of WW2 already sees all the signs of fascism in us and by mobilizing the populace, we'll be accelerating the arms race with two arms to fill, and sending a strong signal about Us or them!!

They've already heard the "You're either with us or with the terrorists" so they know we're ready to divide and conquer, especially when that quaint saying becomes- "You're either us or you're toast". Funny how this time the allies will be over there and we will be the axis of evil. Well they're guaranteed to find WMD's here!

The draft will definitely include women as well so they can double the size of their army just like they did the workforce. Then PTSD will be so common that the walking wounded will be comfortable knowing everybodies fucked up together, so it's OK.

As it is we all have a touch of PTSD, just from being alive, some more acute than others.

21'st century schizoid wo/man. Is that King Crimson with a futuristic twist? Is this our inevitable future as well?

Cats foot iron claw
Neuro-surgeons scream for more
At paranoias poison door.
Twenty first century schizoid man.

Blood rack barbed wire
Polititians funeral pyre
Innocents raped with napalm fire
Twenty first century schizoid man.

Death seed blind mans greed
Poets starving children bleed
Nothing hes got he really needs
Twenty first century schizoid man.

I think that was a bad dream I had once too.

Author:  Sir-Irate [ Mon May 28, 2007 10:00 pm ]
Post subject: 

Right on .. DO.g's

My friend "Anyway you look at it, it's killing off the youth of the USA, Britain and elsewhere. That's intensional."

The software Army games are all the rage. It's called "modern" recruiting. Educate the kids to kill and get extra points for head-shots and all that. Great training and loads of fun. Just a mouse click and your alive and well again and again and again. Sad this doesn't work in the real World. Parents shouldn't let their kids play these games.

Then they''ll have their - Private guns for hire program. I suppose (in time) they'll be stomping our streets and of course, this will be for our protection. Like in New Orleans maybe?

Author:  Ostiedecalisse [ Mon May 28, 2007 11:24 pm ]
Post subject: 

If Iraq had not been invaded it is estimated that 654,965 people who died, would not have done so, according to an article in The Lancet, Thursday October 12, 2006.

Two years ago another article, also published in The Lancet, had estimated that about 100,000 extra lives were lost because of the invasion between March 2003 - September 2004.

In this new paper, Gilbert Burnham, John Hopkins Bloomberg University, USA, and team came to the 654,965 figure by calculating total deaths between March 2003 to June 2006, and comparing them with total deaths during January 2002 to March 2003 (before the invasion).

654,965 people represents 2.5% of Iraq's total population. 2.5% of the USA would be 7.5 million deaths, 2.5% of the UK's population would be 1.5 million deaths. During The Second World War the United Kingdom lost 0.94% of its population, France lost 1.35%, China lost 1.89% and the USA lost 0.32% (Wikipedia). ... wsid=53905

Author:  dori [ Tue May 29, 2007 2:15 am ]
Post subject: 

Very interesting statistics in that article, Ostiedecalisse. Is it only people in the United States who have little interest in the horror we are spreading? I have the awful feeling it is.

SI, those video games are used to train our troops, how can anyone say they are harmless? But that is what I hear, people get them for their kids because they are 'harmless' and 'fun'. Anything for fun, you know.

DO.g's, I believe you are right. We soon will come to a point where a draft will be absolutely necessary. After all, we have such a 'strong' leader who doesn't change his mind because of that 'strength'. We are overextended already, and he is determined to bomb Iran.

I have the feeling not even a draft is going to save our sorry hides...

Author:  dori [ Sat Jun 02, 2007 2:57 am ]
Post subject: 

A Soldier in Iraq Asks in Despair: Why Are We Here?

Baghdad - My name is Donald Hudson Jr. I have been serving our country's military actively for the last three years. I am currently deployed to Baghdad on Forward Operating Base Loyalty, where I have been for the last four and a half months.

I came here as part of the first wave of this so called "troop surge", but so far it has effectively done nothing to quell insurgent violence. I have seen the rise in violence between the Sunni and Shiite. This country is in the middle of a civil war that has been on going since the seventh century.

Why are we here when this country still to date does not want us here? Why does our president's personal agenda consume him so much, that he can not pay attention to what is really going on here?

Let me tell you a story. On May 10, I was out on a convoy mission to move barriers from a market to a joint security station. It was no different from any other night, except the improvised explosive device that hit our convoy this time, actually pierced through the armor of one of our trucks. The truck was immediately engulfed in flames, the driver lost control and wrecked the truck into one of the buildings lining the street. I was the driver of the lead truck in our convoy; the fifth out of six was the one that got hit. All I could hear over the radio was a friend from the sixth truck screaming that the fifth truck was burning up real bad, and that they needed fire extinguishers real bad. So I turned my truck around and drove through concrete barriers to get to the burning truck as quickly as I could. I stopped 30 meters short of the burning truck, got out and ripped my fire extinguisher out of its holder, and ran to the truck. I ran past another friend of mine on the way to the burning truck, he was screaming something but I could not make it out. I opened the driver's door to the truck and was immediately overcome by the flames. I sprayed the extinguisher into the door, and then I saw my roommate's leg. He was the gunner of that truck. His leg was across the driver's seat that was on fire and the rest of his body was further in the truck. My fire extinguisher died and I climbed into the truck to attempt to save him. I got to where his head was, in the back passenger-side seat. I grabbed his shoulders and attempted to pull him from the truck out the driver's door. I finally got him out of the truck head first. His face had been badly burned. His leg was horribly wounded. We placed him on a spine board and did our best to attempt "Buddy Aid". We heard him trying to gasp for air. He had a pulse and was breathing, but was not responsive. He was placed into a truck and rushed to the "Green Zone", where he died within the hour. His name was Michael K. Frank. He was 36 years old. He was a great friend of mine and a mentor to most of us younger soldiers here.

Now I am still here in this country wondering why, and having to pick up the pieces of what is left of my friend in our room. I would just like to know what is the true reason we are here? This country poses no threat to our own. So why must we waste the lives of good men on a country that does not give a damn about itself? Most of my friends here share my views, but do not have the courage to say anything.

On that same page is a story about soldiers meeting with Lieberman--and not asking the questions they wanted to ask.

I wish they had.

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