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 Post subject: Another comparison betwen Iraq and Vietnam
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 2:00 am 
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Apparently in another cotton mouthed speech, GWB mentioned a book called the Quiet American by Graham Greene. [Edited because I got the author wrong. Shame.]

And of course, this article asks: Why would Bush cite 'The Quiet American'?

Because somebody in GW's speech writing team either didn't really understand the book, or else they think they can reappropriate it for their own gain.

Quote:
by Frank James

In his speech at the Veterans of Foreign Wars convention in Kansas City today, President Bush summoned up the Alden Pyle CIA agent character of Graham Greene's classic Vietnam novel "The Quiet American" which is essentially a contemplation on the road to hell being paved with good intentions.

I'm not sure he really wanted to go there or why his speechwriters would take him there.

As Bush said:

In 1955, long before the United States had entered the war, Graham Greene wrote a novel called "The Quiet American." It was set in Saigon and the main character was a young government agent named Alden Pyle. He was a symbol of American purpose and patriotism and dangerous naivete. Another character describes Alden this way: "I never knew a man who had better motives for all the trouble he caused."

After America entered the Vietnam War, Graham Greene -- the Graham Greene argument gathered some steam. Matter of fact, many argued that if we pulled out, there would be no consequences for the Vietnamese people. In 1972, one anti-war senator put it this way: "What earthly difference does it make to nomadic tribes or uneducated subsistence farmers in Vietnam or Cambodia or Laos whether they have a military dictator, a royal prince or a socialist commissar in some distant capital that they've never seen and may never heard of?"
...

What's sad is that he comes across in this speech like he really doesn't know what he is saying.

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Last edited by Channel Zero on Mon Aug 27, 2007 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:29 am 
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one huge problem for bush and the rest of the bushicon cabal in thier farcical use of the viet nam lesson of getting out too early is the fact that bush himself didn't have the pair hanging between his legs neccessary to place himself there to fulfill his patriotic obligation like war heroes who ACTUALLY fought and died there.

another failed comparison is the fact that iraq is in the middle of a severe sectarian born civil war. nothing of that sort was even close to occurring in nam.

it'll be interesting to hear the already canned garbage/propaganda that going to, of all days, heard on sept 11, when the supposed current iraq report from gen. patreus is scheduled to report to congress. it's a pretty safe guess as reported by many like kieth olbermann and others that the report is being printed up by the whithouse with no actual input from the the general himself. they are expecting him to fully cooperate and deliver THIER version of events irregardless of the reality that patreus may wish to report.

guess we'll see whether patreus has a spine of his own like his predecessors had or if he'll cave and fail to be the true patriot he needs to be. his predecessors were fired/demoted for telling the truth and so he'll be if he does likewise.

the bushicon rally monkeys will be in full propaganda spinmiester mode when sept gets here. the shitstorm of misinformation with be eminating from foxnoisechannel at full throttle.

it's up to us to make sure it gets totally rejected.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:08 am 
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I am betting Patraeus will fall right into line with what the Bushies want him to say and he'll toe the line until he's no longer needed. Cowardly bastard.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 1:33 pm 
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Ex-Iraq General: Bush 'misunderstanding' Vietnam history

MSNBC's Alison Stewart interviews retired Maj. Gen. Paul Eaton, senior adviser to VoteVets, who was in charge of training the Iraqi military in 2003 and 2004.

Alison asks Gen. Eaton his take on the accuracy of President Bush's recent statement, during his Wednesday speech to the Veterans of Foreign Wars, that retreating from Iraq would cause the same kind of "violent reaction" that came from the United States' pullout from Vietnam.

"It's a very unfortunate trip back into history," says Eaton. "It reveals a fundamental misunderstanding of what the Vietnam war was about. Our enemy there was the North Vietnamese Army and their proxy forces, the Viet Cong.

The issue in Iraq is a religious-based civil war with al-Qaeda thrown in there to complicate the affair."

Eaton calls Bush's analogy "unfortunate," citing "untidy parallels" between the behaviors of senior civilian leadership in Vietnam and Iraq. There is a failure on the part of the Bush Administration to devote diplomatic resources, in addition to fighting troops, to help the current situation.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 4:05 pm 
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Well, on a radio talkshow, I heard another explanation that says that Al Q is not as involved as we might think, and that the insurgency is really home grown. Or something like that.

And I'm thinking, a home grown insurgency sounds like an oxymoron. And if what we have is opposition from within Iraq, then what we really have is Iraqi citizens fighting for occupation. Damn, citizens fighting the US on their own soil -- that does sound like Vietnam.

From Editor & Publisher, we find some trying to take the Bush view.
Quote:
Then there was Joe Klein at Time magazine's Swampland blog calling "The Quiet American" a novel "whose hero is the young William Kristol...actually, no, the hero is an idealistic American intelligence officer named Alden Pyle, who causes great disasters in the name of a higher good. In other words, he's a premature neoconservative. I would hope that the President will re-read, or perhaps just read the book, as soon as possible because it is as good a description as there is about the futility of trying to forcibly impose western ways on an ancient culture."

Damn, talk about your Bushisms.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 4:21 pm 
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Channel Zero wrote:
Well, on a radio talkshow, I heard another explanation that says that Al Q is not as involved as we might think, and that the insurgency is really home grown. Or something like that.

And I'm thinking, a home grown insurgency sounds like an oxymoron. And if what we have is opposition from within Iraq, then what we really have is Iraqi citizens fighting for occupation. Damn, citizens fighting the US on their own soil -- that does sound like Vietnam.


One person's insurgent is another person's fredom fighter.

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