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 Post subject: Were there any witnesses?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:38 am 
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Let's assume the Bldg 7 demolition wasn't planned in advance. At some point during the day technicians had to plant and wire the explosives to bring the building down in it's own footprint. Let's further assume that to compensate for limited time, more technicians were employed than would normally be used; perhaps twice as many? So, we are to believe that these technicians were running around with high explostives, blasting caps, and thousands of feet of wire and no one noticed? Has the name of the company/organization that demolished Bldg. 7 ever been mentioned by name? Has anyone ever interviewed any of these people? Was there a contract with any demolition company?

In my humble opinion, Bldg 7 puts the lie to the notion that no one in government knew the attack was coming and when.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:11 am 
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I may be wrong here, but I don't think that in the "official version" of 9/11 there is any mention of pre-positioned explosives, or explosives positioned after the planes hit.
I think that in the official version buildings 1 and 2 collapsed due to structural damage and fire, and building 7 collapsed due solely to fire.

I do agree with you that building 7 is the clincher, although both 1 and 2 are not far behind. We really do need an independent investigation on what really went on on 9/11, but they are fighting it, and fighting it hard.

Best that we can hope for is that in 2006 the republicans are not in control, and there is a full investigation into EVERYTHING suspicious or proven to be outright lies since this administration took over.

I'm not a big fan of either party, but I think that if the democrats were smart, they could ruthlessly crush the republicans to a point that it would take them decades to recover.

I don't think that we will see that though. The most we will see is the impeachment of Bush. Of course, if the Dems do come out and say they want a full independent investigation for 9/11, I will make an apology.

CrimsonEagle


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 12:34 pm 
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I believe it is unlikely that the Democrats would initiate another investigation into 911. There are several reasons.

1. They would be tarred by the conspiracy theory brush.
2. Finding the truth would be disruptive to the government in general and capitalism in particular. It could start people wondering about things that the propaganda system would rather keep out of the public eye.
3. All of the physical evidence is gone. Analysis of the Twin Towers would be seen as highly speculative.
4. The US government would be shown to be porous, i.e., filled with private interests operating within the public sphere with the power of government behind them. The execution of 911 was almost certainly carried out through a network of moles in various key positions.
5. If it could be shown that the government in general, and not just BushReich, is corrupt to the point of murdering its own citizens, it could cause what was called during the Vietnam era a "crisis in democracy". Which is not to say that democracy is broken, but that too many people are trying to participate in it.
6. Given the way Congress works, reopening the 911 case would be political suicide.
7. The corporate media and elite opinion would have a field day with the Dem's.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:02 pm 
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DING DING DING DING DING DING DING.

AND WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!

Lol, Very good Durango, I like that.
I think that this one has to be my favorite.

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Finding the truth would be disruptive to the government in general and capitalism in particular. It could start people wondering about things that the propaganda system would rather keep out of the public eye.


My friend, I have been wondering about these things for so long its really really sad.

CrimsonEagle


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:03 pm 
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I'm afraid durango, you're a little behind the times and are regressing back to when wires and electricity were required to hook up explosives. C-4 or mini nukes with remote radio controlled mechanisms are all that's required. Place them in the right locations above bulkheads, and you can even destroy steel beams into removable sizes. To place them requires little time or effort. Check out the owners who got the WTC a few months before from the government and who shut them down for two weeks for renovations. All this is known information.

The new jewish owners were given a 99 year lease, and were able to collect insurance on 2 terrorist attacks. This is outright thievery from the American taxpayers, that paid for the buildings, by the government and these thieves.

Are you another disinformation neo con repiglican trying to get your agenda of bull on our site, 'cause all of this has been illustrated and examined here. If you want to learn about your governments complicity in the destruction of the WTC, start here.

http://www.letsroll911.org/

After that, there is plenty of other sites we can give you.
And remember- no steel frame sky scraper has ever been brought down by an aircraft hitting it or a fire. And no aircraft or debris hit the WTC 7 building.

This line here is a double conundrum.
Durango-
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In my humble opinion, Bldg 7 puts the lie to the notion that no one in government knew the attack was coming and when.


Are you trying to say that it proves that the government knew that the buildings were to be hit and did nothing to stop it? If it puts the lie to the notion that no one knew, then they knew it was to be targeted. Before this, you state that, how could they set all the explosives in place? What are you trying to say? Who are you defending?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:54 pm 
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First, I was playing devil's advocate. Let's give them the widest possible leeway, the benefit of the doubt, etc. They, whoever they are, still fail.

Secondly, for a controlled demolition to work, the timing and sequence of the detonations is critical. Everything must happen within milliseconds of the prescribed schedule. Once the building starts to move it must be kept moving in a very controlled way or part of the mass will not go where you want it. Setting off a complicated series of explosions from a garage door opener sounds a bit dicey to me.

Two of the problems in using sophisticated electronics is false keying and illegal states. The demolition is a one-shot deal. It has to work the first time. A well tested mechanical system is the most reliable. A glitch in an electrical system could send a false signal that would disrupt the sequence. Some trucker's radio could bollocks the whole thing. Then consider that all electrical systems must power up. If the power up sequence encounters noise, variations in voltages, etc., it could come up in an illegal or unknown state. If it's your PC, hit the reset and try again. If it's a building demolition, you can't put the building back up and try again. The most reliable way to bring Bldg 7 down is to do it the tried and true way.

Building 7 came down without significantly damaging anything around it. Can you imagine what would happen if it did? The owners of the adjacent buildings would want to know why as would their insurance companies. This is a kind of collateral damage the perps would just as soon stay clear of.

Thirdly, "Jewish"?

Forth, the logic is simple. If A is true, then B is true. A isn't true, therefore B isn't true.

Fifth, I'm not defending anyone.

Sixth, of course the explosives were planted in advance.

Seventh, don't get me started on the Twin Towers. They withstood the impacts of a plane similar in mass properties to a Boeing 707, which was one of the original design criteria. Something else must have brought them down. There wasn't enough heat available in the jet fuel. The jet fuel didn't burn hot enough or long enough. The damage was off axis and yet they fell straight down. The heat from the building's contents wasn't enough. The official descriptions and modeling are not to be trusted. The official version sounds like something written by Judith Miller.

Eighth, in a former career I was an electrical engineer for a big aerospace firm. I designed part of the control systems for communications satellites. I designed the electrical bits that connected the mechanical bits to the main satellite processor. I'm familiar with worst case analysis, fail safe modes, cross strapping, redundancy, reliability, state machines, meta-stability, etc. Keep your techno-babble to yourself, please.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 8:35 pm 
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those who peddle fantasies that this country encouraged, permitted or actually carried out the attacks are libeling the truth -- and disgracing the memories of the thousands who died that day.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 8:51 pm 
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some videos of building #7

http://www.wtc7.net/videos.html

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I believe that God has planted in every heart the desire to live in freedom.
George W. Bush
DESTROY THE QURAN OR BE DESTROYED BY IT


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 8:58 pm 
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buckshot wrote:
those who peddle fantasies that this country encouraged, permitted or actually carried out the attacks are libeling the truth -- and disgracing the memories of the thousands who died that day.


I don't know what really happened on 911, but Bucky's refusal to question any aspect of the Republican owned government which he so worships is a disgrace to all Americans who have died to defend the open and honest government envisioned by the founding fathers.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:00 pm 
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http://911review.com/911review/index.html

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DESTROY THE QURAN OR BE DESTROYED BY IT


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:43 pm 
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Look how desperate poor Bucky gets when he's put down. What a sad sad human. He appears everywhere he can with his cut and paste garbage. Sad, depressed and lonely too. Comes from believing in mythology too much.

You're right, it's a disgrace that Bush and Cheney were responsible for all those poor Americans that died that day on 9-11 , not to mention all the Iraqis and American soldiers that have died since. Those two should be drawn and quartered for their treason.

Like I said Bucky, we don't want to be your friends as you have nothing intelligent to add.

Oh and Durango, noticed we still didn't get a straight answer from you on which side of the fence you hang out on. Just some phony techno babble, mumbo-jumbo that you had to throw in. As for timing the explosives, Heard of computers?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 1:21 am 
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You're right, it's a disgrace that Bush and Cheney were responsible for all those poor Americans that died that day on 9-11 , not to mention all the Iraqis and American soldiers that have died since. Those two should be drawn and quartered for their treason.


put up or shut up where's the proof and since you are so confident go make a citizens arrest .

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Like I said Bucky, we don't want to be your friends as you have nothing intelligent to add.


:roll: whatever

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Oh and Durango, noticed we still didn't get a straight answer from you on which side of the fence you hang out on.


watch out durango if your not on their side of the fence they wont be your friend either. :roll: it dosen't matter what you know or believe in if you don't hate bush and believe the big 911 conspiracy's they will gang up on you and like i said they won't be your friend :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 1:47 am 
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buckshot wrote:
watch out durango if your not on their side of the fence they wont be your friend either. :roll: it dosen't matter what you know or believe in if you don't hate bush and believe the big 911 conspiracy's they will gang up on you and like i said they won't be your friend :lol:


Awww! Bucky is mad that we aren't his friends! Whatsamatter Buckaroo, do you need a friend?

Won't the other brownshirts let you goosestep with them?

Won't the guys with the white hoods let you join in on cross burning night?

Won't the guys with the cross around their neck let you join them when they gang bang the alter boys?

It's pretty sorry when even that low life crowd won't let you in.

OK gang, perhaps we have been too hard on poor Bucky. It seems that he has no friends amongst the rabid, fascist, neo-con, wingnuts.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I am willing to give ol' Bucky another chance.

Bucky, you don't have to eat crow or anything. Just change your ways. If you can become a progressive humanist, pro-peace, pro-American labor, pro-health care for all Americans, pro-civil rights(including gays), that would be a nice start toward a friendship with me, and probably many other people on this forum.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:03 am 
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Bucky, you don't have to eat crow or anything. Just change your ways. If you can become a progressive humanist, pro-peace, pro-American labor, pro-health care for all Americans, pro-civil rights(including gays), that would be a nice start toward a friendship with me, and probably many other people on this forum.


-eat crow :shock: thank God
- Just change my ways, you never met half way.
-progressive humanist-i have my God i will not change that, i will not force any change on anyone i will only share my beliefs and you should do the same.don't get me wrong i would like to see you be a christian like you would like me to be a progressive humanist . how about this i will not insult progressive humanist if you don't insult christians . we can discuss them openly. i'm not saying we can't poke fun :P
-pro-peace--i'm for peace but i also believe peace has a heavy price tag.
-pro-American labor- i'm already this one, this can get to be a real long drawn out battle on either side of the fence. for instance people say republicians are for big business, well in some ways i agree with that and my reason is that i work for big business. i never worked for a poor person, i mean hey if the government wants to give big business huge tax breaks and big business uses that money saved to build more plants and stay in america i'm happy with that , i believe in feeding the pig that is going to feed me.
-pro-health care for all Americans- i'm all for all americans having health care but i just don't don't believe in government controlled health care . i believe in giving companies incintives and tax breaks to and for providing health care.
-pro-civil rights(including gays), -i am for civil rights but i'm against government control of that , last thing i want is for the government or some lawyer telling me that i can't say merry christmas. and what excatly do you mean by the gays? they have the same rights that i do. the only difference is that i myself do not want to marry another man. plus my wife would be pissed.you know i have friends 2 in particular that are like you , i work with them we get in some heated discussions then we laugh .
and we live to do it another day.

your friend, Buckshot

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George W. Bush
DESTROY THE QURAN OR BE DESTROYED BY IT


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:42 pm 
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buckshot wrote:
- Just change my ways, you never met half way.


Who said anything about meeting you halfway? Why would I go halfway to becoming a regressive, fundamentalist, warmonging chickenhawk, corporatist, homophobe?


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