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 Post subject: Whats so great about jesus
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:56 am 
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If we're all g.OD's children, then.......?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:52 am 
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The most difficult thing about the Christian concept of the Trinity is that there is no way to adequately explain it. The Trinity is a concept that is impossible for any human being to fully understand, let alone explain. God is infinitely greater than we are, therefore we should not expect to be able to fully understand Him. The Bible teaches that the Father is God, that Jesus is God, and that the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible also teaches that there is only one God. Though we can understand some facts about the relationship of the different persons of the Trinity to one another, ultimately, it is incomprehensible to the human mind. However, this does not mean it is not true or not based on the teachings of the Bible.



Keep in mind when studying this subject that the word "Trinity" is not used in Scripture. This is a term that is used to attempt to describe the triune God, the fact that there are 3 coexistent, co-eternal persons that make up God. Understand that this is NOT in any way suggesting 3 Gods. The Trinity is 1 God made up of 3 persons. There is nothing wrong with using the term "Trinity" even though the word is not found in the Bible. It is shorter to say the word "Trinity" than to say "3 coexistent, co-eternal persons making up 1 God." If this presents a problem to you, consider this: the word grandfather is not used in the Bible either. Yet, we know there were grandfathers in the Bible. Abraham was the grandfather of Jacob. So don't get hung up on the term "Trinity" itself. What should be of real importance is that the concept that is REPRESENTED by the word "Trinity" does exist in Scripture. With the introduction out of the way, Bible verses will be given in discussion of the Trinity.



1) There is one God: Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5.



2) The Trinity consists of three Persons: Genesis 1:1; 1:26; 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8; 48:16; 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17; Matt 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14. In the passages in the Old Testament, a knowledge of Hebrew is helpful. In Genesis 1:1, the plural noun "Elohim" is used. In Genesis 1:26; 3:22; 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun for "us" is used. That "Elohim" and "us" refer to more than two is WITHOUT question. In English, you only have two forms, singular and plural. In Hebrew, you have three forms: singular, dual, and plural. Dual is for two ONLY. In Hebrew, the dual form is used for things that come in pairs like eyes, ears, and hands. The word "Elohim" and the pronoun "us" are plural forms - definitely more than two - and must be referring to three or more (Father, Son, Holy Spirit).



In Isaiah 48:16 and 61:1, the Son is speaking while making reference to the Father and the Holy Spirit. Compare Isaiah 61:1 to Luke 4:14-19 to see that it is the Son speaking. Matthew 3:16-17 describes the event of Jesus' baptism. Seen in this is God the Holy Spirit descending on God the Son while God the Father proclaims His pleasure in the Son. Matthew 28:19 and 2 Corinthians 13:14 are examples of 3 distinct persons in the Trinity.



3) The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in various passages: In the Old Testament, "LORD" is distinguished from "Lord" (Genesis 19:24; Hosea 1:4). The "LORD" has a "Son" (Psalm 2:7, 12; Proverbs 30:2-4). Spirit is distinguished from the "LORD" (Numbers 27:18) and from "God" (Psalm 51:10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm 45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9). In the New Testament, John 14:16-17 is where Jesus speaks to the Father about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit. This shows that Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit. Consider also all of the other times in the Gospels where Jesus speaks to the Father. Was He speaking to Himself? No. He spoke to another person in the Trinity - the Father.



4) Each member of the Trinity is God: The Father is God: John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2. The Son is God: John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20. The Holy Spirit is God: Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16 (The One who indwells is the Holy Spirit - Romans 8:9; John 14:16-17; Acts 2:1-4).



5) The subordination within the Trinity: Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship, and does not deny the deity of any person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see: Luke 22:42; John 5:36; John 20:21; 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit see: John 14:16; 14:26; 15:26; 16:7 and especially John 16:13-14.



6) The tasks of the individual members of the Trinity: The Father is the ultimate source or cause of: 1) the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation 4:11); 2) divine revelation (Revelation 1:1); 3) salvation (John 3:16-17); and 4) Jesus' human works (John 5:17; 14:10). The Father INITIATES all of these things.



The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works: 1) the creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17); 2) divine revelation (John 1:1; Matthew 11:27; John 16:12-15; Revelation 1:1); and 3) salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John 4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son, who functions as His agent.



The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: 1) creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30); 2) divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21); 3) salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and 4) Jesus' works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38). Thus the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit.



None of the popular illustrations are completely accurate descriptions of the Trinity. The egg (or apple) fails in that the shell, white, and yolk are parts of the egg, not the egg in themselves. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are not parts of God, each of them is God. The water illustration is somewhat better but still fails to adequately describe the Trinity. Liquid, vapor, and ice are forms of water. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not forms of God, each of them is God. So, while these illustrations may give us a picture of the Trinity, the picture is not entirely accurate. An infinite God cannot be fully described by a finite illustration. Instead of focusing on the Trinity, try to focus on the fact of God's greatness and infinitely higher nature than our own. "Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out! Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?" (Romans 11:33-34)

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:00 am 
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Who is Jesus Christ? Unlike the question, "Does God exist?", very few people have questioned whether Jesus Christ existed. It is generally accepted that Jesus was truly a man who walked on the earth in Israel almost 2000 years ago. The debate begins when the subject of Jesus' full identity is discussed. Almost every major religion teaches that Jesus was a prophet, or a good teacher, or a godly man. The problem is, the Bible tells us that Jesus was infinitely more than a prophet, a good teacher, or a godly man.



C.S. Lewis in his book Mere Christianity writes the following: "I am trying here to prevent anyone from saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him [Jesus Christ]: "I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don't accept his claim to be God." That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic -- on a level with a man who says he is a poached egg -- or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse .... You can shut him up for fool, you can spit at him and kill him as a demon; or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God. But let us not come up with any patronizing nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that option open to us. He did not intend to.”



So, who did Jesus claim to be? Who does the Bible say He was? First, let's look at Jesus’ words in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” At first glance, this might not seem to be a claim to be God. However, look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement, “We are not stoning you for any of these, replied the Jews, but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33). The Jews understood Jesus’ statement to be a claim to be God. In the following verses, Jesus never corrects the Jews by saying, “I did not claim to be God.” That indicates Jesus was truly saying He was God by declaring, “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30). John 8:58 is another example. Jesus proclaimed, “I tell you the truth, Jesus answered, before Abraham was born, I am!” Again, in response, the Jews take up stones in an attempt to stone Jesus (John 8:59). Jesus announcing His identity as “I am” is a direct application of the Old Testament name for God (Exodus 3:14). Why would the Jews again want to stone Jesus if He hadn’t said something they believed to be blasphemous, namely, a claim to be God?



John 1:1 says that “the Word was God.” John 1:14 says that “the Word became flesh.” This clearly indicates that Jesus is God in the flesh. Thomas the disciple declared to Jesus, “My Lord and my God” (John 20:28). Jesus does not correct him. The Apostle Paul describes Him as, “…our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ” (Titus 2:13). The Apostle Peter says the same, “…our God and Savior Jesus Christ” (2 Peter 1:1). God the Father is witness of Jesus’ full identity as well, “But about the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.” Old Testament prophecies of Christ announce His deity, “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”



So, as C.S. Lewis argued, believing Jesus to be a good teacher is not an option. Jesus clearly and undeniably claimed to be God. If He is not God, then He is a liar, and therefore not a prophet, good teacher, or godly man. In attempts to explain the words of Jesus away, modern “scholars” claim the “true historical Jesus” did not say many of the things the Bible attributes to Him. Who are we to argue with God’s Word concerning what Jesus did or did not say? How can a “scholar” two-thousand years removed from Jesus have better insight into what Jesus did or did not say than those who lived with, served with, and were taught by Jesus Himself (John 14:26)?



Why is the question over Jesus’ true identity so important? Why does it matter whether or not Jesus is God? The most important reason that Jesus has to be God is that if He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2). Only God could pay such an infinite penalty (Romans 5:8; 2 Corinthians 5:21). Jesus had to be God so that He could pay our debt. Jesus had to be man so He could die. Salvation is available only through faith in Jesus Christ! Jesus’ deity is why He is the only way of salvation. Jesus’ deity is why He proclaimed, “I am the Way and the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through me” (John 14:6).

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:01 am 
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Although Scripture does not attempt to “prove” that Jesus was raised from the dead, it does present conclusive evidence that He was in fact resurrected. Christ’s resurrection is recorded in Matthew 29:1-20; Mark 16:1-20; Luke 24:1-53 and John 20:1-21:25. The resurrected Christ also appeared in the Book of Acts (Acts 1:1-11). From these passages you can gain several “proofs” of Christ’s resurrection. Look at the dramatic change in the disciples. They went from scared and hiding in a room, to courageous and sharing the Gospel throughout the world. What else could explain this dramatic change other than the risen Christ appearing to them?



Look at the life of the Apostle Paul. What changed him from being a persecutor of the church into an apostle for the church? It was when the risen Christ appeared to him on the road to Damascus (Acts 9:1-6). Another convincing “proof” is the empty tomb. If Christ wasn’t raised, then where is His body? The disciples and others saw the tomb where He was buried. When they returned, His body was not there. Angels declared that He had been raised from the dead as He had promised (Matthew 28:5-7). Yet another evidence of His resurrection is the many people He appeared to (Matthew 28:5,9,16-17; Mark 16:9; Luke 24:13-35; John 20:19,24,26-29; 21:1-14; Acts 1:6-8; 1 Corinthians 15:5-7).



The key passage on Christ’s resurrection is 1 Corinthians 15. In this chapter, the Apostle Paul explains why it is crucial to understand and believe in Christ’s resurrection. The resurrection is important for the following reasons: (1) If Christ was not raised from the dead, believers will not be either (1 Corinthians 15:12-15). (2) If Christ was not raised from the dead, His sacrifice for sin was not sufficient (1 Corinthians 15:16-19). Jesus’ resurrection proved that His death was accepted by God as the atonement for our sins. If He had simply died and stayed dead that would indicate His sacrifice was not sufficient. As a result, believers would not be forgiven for their sins, and they would still remain dead after they die (1 Corinthians 15:16-19) – there would be no such thing as eternal life (John 3:16). “But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep” (1 Corinthians 15:20 NAS). Christ has been raised from the dead – He is the first fruits of our resurrection.



(3) All those who believe in Him will be raised to eternal life just as He was (1 Corinthians 15:20-23). 1 Corinthians 15 goes on to describe how Christ’s resurrection proves His victory over sin, and provides us the power to live victoriously over sin (1 Corinthians 15:24-34). (4) It describes the glorious nature of the resurrection body we will receive (1 Corinthians 15:35-49). (5) It proclaims that as a result of Christ’s resurrection, all who believe in Him have ultimate victory over death (1 Corinthians 15:50-58). What a glorious truth the resurrection of Christ is! “Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your toil is not in vain in the Lord” (1 Corinthians 15:58).

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:54 pm 
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Yawn. Is it over yet? Geeze, now we know what's wrong with Jebus- Long winded oratories from idiot followers. Jebus never said that much in one sitting, and if he did, it tried to make sense. More cut and paste garbage from the king of the garbage pile- Bucky.

The trinity? Is that like believing in 3 g.OD's? Geesus, doesn't that kinda contradict the commandment about no other g.Od's besides ol' Numero UNO? If Jebus was a man , which he was, then to elevate him to the level of g.OD's is BLASPHEMY. He's no better than any of us. Nice to know that Bucky breaks the First Commandment.

Lets see, what other commandments, besides a lack of intelligence does the mental moron ignore. How about the laws of intelligent thinking. That has to be a major one. How about " If we're ALL g.OD's children.... then what's so special about jesus?"

Bucky and jebus seem to be just another couple of misunderstood guys trying to get by and make a living, telling tall tales and spreading assumed garbage.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:58 pm 
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J.C. allegedly cared about the plight of his fellow man.

I don't see Bucky nor the Bushites giving a flying F*CK about humanity


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 7:04 am 
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thank God , we have enough morons. let's keep it that way.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:57 pm 
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Getting you and Bushie out of America would be a serious blow to the moron population in America, Bucky. Just getting off topic again because you're caught in another discussion you have no hope of contesting. Let's get back on topic, shall we loser. Same old repiglican neo-con tricks again and again.

Another Commandment you and Bushie share in breaking- Thou shalt not bear false witness. I'm Afraid you and Bushitler are two of the biggest fib tellers in America. It is obvious that the two of you have no morals or scruples as you carry your message to the public, without a shred of truth attached. If you wish to prove some of what you say is true, then answer shoeless questions on BUSH LIES.

You can't because you're such a chickenshit lying loser. Same with your fearless leader,the ape faced moron from Crawford.

The holy spirit? What in hell is that supposed to mean? It is merely a depository for ones morals and values. You don't have any conscientious morals or values, so how can you use this as an excuse for what an empty soul you have. Thank g.OD's? For you? Your g.OD's are imaginary and don't exist. Just a figment of your tiny little imagination. Like jebus, the man. Not a g.OD's. This goes against another of the commandments you believe, by triangulating and creating g.OD's that don't exist. Get real Bucky. That is another commandment you seem to be ignoring. 1 g.OD's only per heaven, not 3. How can a father and son be equal when one created the other? What is a holy spirit in heaven except a figment of invisible imagination. How can they be all the same at the same moment? You stretch the truth to new dimensions of surreality, you pagan catholics. All you losers can do is bear false witness.

Why don't you cut and paste some more bullshit for us.

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An ability to see both sides of a question
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People don't choose to be dishonest
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 5:18 pm 
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Right Mr. Slave, King of the Sluts. Takes Bush full body in one sitting.

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People don't choose to be dishonest
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 5:49 pm 
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Again he contradicts the commandments by blasphemy of his DO.g's and bearing false witness. Which of the 10 commandments will you break next, Mr. Slave?

Like I said, there is nothing special about jebus and you and your phony catholic religion can't prove anything otherwise. You and your phony beliefs are just a ruse for what a weak minded person you are that you have to hide your powerlessness behind lies and rhetoric to find any purpose in your otherwise empty, petty little life. You can't even explain the post by shoeless about Bush Lies. It seems that all you can do is hide your chickenshit little life behind lies on all fronts. Avoid avoid avoid avoid, is all you can do. Hide in your closet Mr. Slave.

What a supreme loser.

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Completely sane world
madness the only freedom

An ability to see both sides of a question
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People don't choose to be dishonest
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Now I know how Kusinich feels.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 6:06 am 
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The way you contemplate my name over and over again- Is this your Brokeback Mountain thing again Bucky. I know you try to keep it a secret but........ What would jebus think when he finds out you're gay?

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People don't choose to be dishonest
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 8:12 pm 
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There is an excellent book which deals with this subject. It is called The Gospel of Q.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/gosp_q.htm

It was written by serious Christian scholars in an attempt to cut out all of the garbage and recontruct what really happened. These people are actual anthropologists, and they used the scientific techniques which all anthropologists use when attempting to discover the facts behind the mythology of any culture.

They took Mark, Matthew and Luke (they considered John to be a child's fairy tale and discounted it because it has little resemblance to the other gospels) and assembled a list of those entries common to all three texts. Everything else was discarded. This was done in order to discover the nature of an earlier "root" text from which the three gospels were derived.

What they found was surprising. The "root" text was not actually religious in nature. Rather, it was a guide for the Jews to follow in their daily life in dealing with the Roman occupation. Furthermore, they concluded that Jesus was not an actual person, but was a character invented to represent the many the teachers of this philosophy, and who helped the Jewish people survive and maintain their culture in the face of the Roman occupation.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 2:36 pm 
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I think that Josephus and Tacitus proves that jesus existed as a man, a radical at the time He was considered a minor character in events of that time, but a few devotees carried on the manufactured traditional beliefs.

Good point about condensed version of the N.T. though. Each of the gospel writers gave slightly different versions and of course embellished it They were mostly post mortem writers and so word of mouth was what they went by.

Tacitus (55-115 C.E.)
The Annals, XV: 44 Tacitus was a member of the Roman consular nobility committed to the senatorial ideals of the Roman republic. He detested both Christians and Jews.
Tacitus wrote of the fire that consumed much of Rome in 64 C.E. during the reign of Nero and the chaos which followed the fire. Then Tacitus reported that Nero fixed blame for the disaster on Christians:

Flavius Josephus (born 37 C.E.)
Antiquities 17.3.3. (81-96 C.E.) Josephus was an aristocratic Jewish historian. The Sanhedrin placed Josephus in command of Galilee during the uprising against the Romans. He later settled in Rome following Nero's persecution of the Christians. The major purpose of his writings seems to have been to commend Judaism to Romans. A pharisee of priestly descent, Josephus wrote critically of the Zealots, who he blamed for the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in 70 C.E.
Christian scribes edited the writings of Josephus, probably adding references that surfaced in some versions to the performance of miracles by Jesus and to the ascension of Jesus three days after his death. Historians reconstructing the account of Josephus generally omit those references as interpolated.

Josephus makes two references to Jesus. In one reference, he refers to the stoning to death of James in 62 C.E., calling James "the brother of Jesus who is called Christ." The other, more significant reference to Jesus follows:

About the same time there lived Jesus, a wise man for he was a performer of marvelous feats and a teacher of such men who received the truth with pleasure. He attracted many Jews and many Greeks. He was the Christ. When Pilate sentenced him to die on the cross, having been urged to do so by the noblest of our citizens; but those who loved him at the first did not give up their affection for him. And the tribe of the Christians, who are named after him, have not disappeared to this day.

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/project ... ounts.html

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 3:40 pm 
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The Q Gospel is hypothetical. Mark, Luke and Matthew are so similar in detail that some scholors have advanced the idea of a *source* (thus, Q, from the german word for source *quelle*).

As to John, it is definately a different document from the other gospels. Even the character of Jesus is very different. Gone is his simple storytelling and common language, replaced by some very heavy theological discussions. While in the other gospels, Jesus seems to be kind and loving, accepting of others, especially the downtrodden of society, in John he becomes much harsher, and in fact, takes on a great deal of Jewish socialization he seems to reject in the other stories. For example, his attitude towards woman is vastly different. In John he says something like *better to bun in hell than marry*. Some say John is actually a Pauline document, made to forward the Christic mythology of (St) Paul. There is even some very old legend that John was written by one of Paul's acolydes. This was prevelent even in the 2nd Century (when Constantine was formulating the Christic myth we know today).

An older myth, and one with some modern evidence to back it up is that John is the work of the followers of St. John the Baptist, and the Christic myth inherited it from there. There is one small Jewish sect (actually I think they are muslim-ish now) that still worships John the Baptist as the *true prophet* and reviles Jesus as 1)the person directly responsible for John's death and 2) a false prophet who usurped John's role and followers after his death. This sect is incredibly ancient, and has a few other odd stories about Jesus, the most amazing being that he was educated in the East (India) and that he did not die on the cross (they say he was replaced by anoter man) but escaped back to India. How very bizarre that in the late 19th century there were texts found in tibet (supposedly) that actually confirmed these stories!

There can be little doubt that the modern Christic myth draws more heavily from John than from Matt, Mark and Luke. Any fundementalist will quote John on issues of theology, even when they directly contridict the parables of the other gospels. All the Christic hate, and violence can be traced directly to this document. The other gospels fill in the details of his life, but for issues of belief most fundies will use John.

My favorite Gospel is Mark, which I believe to be the oldest. Jesus' teaching are presented in a very straight forward manner and there is little if any talk of Jesus being anything other than a teacher and healer. To me, his humanity rings very clear, and the easy style of the story makes it an enjoyable read. I come away from it feeling that Jesus was a good man, if not a bit of a foolish one. Much older versions of Mark (before it was edited by Constantine's Council of Nicea) also include the story of Lazarus, but in a very different form from what we see in John (the only place the story remains today). In the Mark version, Jesus seems very unimpressed and unhurried about the *death* of Lazarus, feeling there was *time* to do other things before going with Mary and Martha to *resurrect* him, which doesn't seem at all like a resserection, but more of a baptism, or *re-birthing* ceremony. In fact, the apostles, who know exactly what is going to happen, seem so unimpressed they go ahead to Jeruselum, and miss the *raising of Lazarus* entirely! Since this is the singla time Jesus raises the dead, one would thing the 12 would at least be curious, but they seem much more interested in getting ready for Passover. In fact, they hook upo with Jesus (and Lazarus) at a party in Jeruselum a few days later. (This is the single mention of Lazarus outside of John, I am unsure which gospel contains it).

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 3:50 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 9:42 am
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Actually it's John (again)

Joh 12:1 Then six days before the Passover, Jesus came to Bethany, where Lazarus was, who had died, whom He raised from the dead.
Joh 12:2 Then they made Him a supper there, and Martha served. But Lazarus was one of those reclining with Him.
Joh 12:3 Then taking a pound of ointment of pure, costly spikenard, Mary anointed the feet of Jesus and wiped off His feet with her hairs. And the house was filled with the odor of the ointment.
Joh 12:4 Then Simon's son, one of His disciples, Judas Iscariot, who was about to betray Him, said,
Joh 12:5 Why was this ointment not sold for three hundred denarii and given to the poor?
Joh 12:6 But he said this, not that he was caring for the poor, but that he was a thief and held the moneybag and carried away the things being put in.
Joh 12:7 Then Jesus said, Allow her, for she has kept it for the day of My burial.
Joh 12:8 For you always have the poor with you, but you do not always have Me.
Joh 12:9 Then a great crowd of the Jews learned that He was there. And they did not come because of Jesus alone, but that they also might see Lazarus whom He raised from the dead.
Joh 12:10 But the chief priests took counsel that they might put Lazarus to death also,
Joh 12:11 because through him many of the Jews went away and believed into Jesus.

The other reference to Lazarus is (probably) a different person, either that or poor Lazarus had one nasty life!

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