Were you challenging me? Gee is it because I was sincerely trying to have a discussion with people, and in your anger and inner need to win that you assumed intonations of challenge out of criticism? Sensitive about losing? Perhaps you are more of an example of the sad state of the American pedagogy of assumed privilege and superiority that is inbred in the sub-conscious. Thanks Alk, you have done more to prove my point than I could ever do. Once again I'm disappointed by your shallow scientific view of the world.
I guess my point here was to prove something about what was so special about jesus, and you have been the perfect example of what is wrong in being fed lies all ones life, and not being able to shake free of them. You become the lie that makes the story of who you wish you were. The lie is, that if you can 't tell a true story, you create a 'Mythos' that fills the expectations you set out to fulfill. Creating a myth is indeed a science, for it is designed around the forces of the natural world, to somehow explain a supernatural experience. You do this by lying yourself into the person you wish you were, just like the apostles did.
It is gratifying that you positioned me as a person who has to win, because that usually means that someone here hates to lose. A person who accuses others of having to be a winner is usually that kind of person- you know the type- a sore loser. Jesus was positioned similarily by his apprentices. Except he fooled us all and became an ultimate winner- paving the way for others to lose but think they are winners also.
You have been lying all through this post haven't you? What would your jesus think? Come clean now Alk. You have to get your info from somewhere. You are saying that you don't get your info from the tube, as you have quit it for 5 years now. What a load of crap. Like I said some people are so full of it you can't tell which end the shit is coming from. The MSM includes newspapers, stories overheard, radio, newsstand rags, magazines etc. You cannot evade this and if you do, then you miss out on half the story, By evading half the truth out there you miss out on the half that is to be judged. So much for you being honest and as a sore loser you have to win. A game player, because you can't figure out why it is there is a game in the first place. There is a wealth of information you are missing and then you pretend to be informed. CNN is critical to watch because it teaches one how absurd and blind you have to be to believe the things in life we assume are truths. You are denying yourself an opportunity to compare doctrines by shutting yourself out from the flow of the mainstream. It can be a great teacher of how propaganda like the bible can be crafted to be believed by the masses of sheeple.
Like I said you teach children. Is it your role to be a teacher of standard American capitalist idealism as structured by the state to these professional children, because it seems you are a devotee of elite structure and so are willing to continue the great lie to whomever will listen. I am consistently opposing liars who espouse the elites song and dance, and I don't lie about my stance. Is that what bothers you? The fact that I showed you how plebian your stance on assumed privilege is? Sorry I hurt your feelings about your beliefs on Mercantilism and corporate supported consumeristic Capitalism. Ever since then you have been a sore loser waiting for your opportunity to show how much you have to win. Too bad. This is the same attitude that the apostles used to get even with their oppressors. It is a time worn pattern that is part of the jesus psyche- Lie your way into favor. It leads to non discussion, evading with themes and lies to substantiate ones stance. You are the one trying to bring a simple topic to an argument as you provoke through assumptions and accusations. It is an old trick that your friends the neo-con, neo- lib agenda setters have taught well. Pretend that it is the other person that started it and then justify with myths, tales and accusations. Bravo little man, bravo. This way you don't progress beyond what you have been taught, and push your preconceptions, as an agenda, to substantiate your programmed stance.
I don't have time to go over your posts and it would be a waste of my time searching for your contradictions, but there are some recent ones that show how you stray off topic to try and get your story into the picture.
Gee you are sure sensitive, busy looking for insults when none are intended. What's paranoid about a little challenge to your views. One thing is certain, that you leave everything open to interpretation and then double back to cover yourself quickly. Typical right wing tricks. At least I'm open and straight on. I am tired of your games and your "I have to win attitude" of the MSM privileged elitist wanna-be's. Pretending it isn't a game when you hate to lose. Really. Ever since I pointed out your absorbed attitude with capitalism, which is a win at all cost game people play, you try and cover up your methods. Nice try. I am busy trying to make people see that it is their inner psyche that makes them do what they do, while you accuse others of being what you could never be, honest and caring.
I remember your accusations of Catherine, oh man who can't see both sides of an issue. Tunnel vision. You're so with the moment. Like ADHD. You channel all your anger and fear into a small area of your thought and use that as a basis for discussion. It makes you jumpy and innattentive as you try to bring outside ideas with little relevance into the discussion. This is typical ADHD thinking. Got Ritalin? It might help your conditions. You speak of opening the mind, but yours is confined to patterns of privilege and assumed elitism. Good luck maturing when even those you claim to teach are like children who need their vacuum fulfilled with more empty rhetoric.
The answer to your question-
how do we get around the social/governmental prejeduce against this?
-easy. Like all crackpot ideas, you must go up against the structure with a real example of something that works. You must go through the AMA to get at your capitalistic hearts desire- Big money. Same for Chiropractors and anyone else beating their heads against the system. I have to get through the simple minds of the conditioned animal here on earth, to get past the structure of their ideology and pedagogy to make them see that having a one sided view of life is easy- it is what we are. Seeing things as humanity must, is beyond most peoples grasp. I need not worry about your side since I have lived it for so long. Examples are prevalent in the videos of the rock and country music stations, the movies and sporting events we love to admire, more examples of the MSM. This is why I asked the question about "What's so special about jesus" and had to listen to the pat answers you and Bucky gave. Basically you both get off topic to try and espouse your standard answers as a form of logic. Attack and win is your motto. Cut and paste or get totally off topic. Meanwhile discussion is thrown out the window. If you can answer my question, you can go a long way in answering the question of life. Why are we here? I gave you a clue. "We're all gods children." So maybe start with 'Who Is god? And don't give the standard answer, because there is nothing special about jesus.
Work it and quit avoiding it. It was a simple question that you had to confuse, to get your win at all cost point across and avoid discussion by trying to bring your personal views into a discussion to make an argument with me, because of previous hostile feelings. You hate to lose don't you, Alk. It has even driven you to lying. Take your sensitivity to mercantilism and capitalism. It is stuck in your throat as an example of your anger principle. Let it go. It is one and the same and no one can be happy in a world where these forces exist. It is to support the elite and their wanna-be petty supporters, that is what it stands on. If you can't figure out what counts in this world then stick to your lies. That is something to believe in. It covers a multitude of sins of cause and effect. Sorry, another law of science that has been proven wrong. That and the law of gravity. I'm sure through your talent at mendacity you can prove that things fall up.
Why are you obsessed with my view of science? We learn from its application. It is invaluable in showing that religion has been wrong about many of its obsessions and so we can have faith in knowing it uses a formula based on the natural world and not inner musings. There is no reason why science and religion should be opposed to each other except that they have chosen this way to be. It is merely the inner psyche trying to live with tradition of lies and substantiate itself by ignoring fact with faith. If we are to progress then we must get past faith based logic alone and accept that fact is a basis as well as faith , for science does not have all the answers- yet- and even if it did, then we would be caught in a cold empty world of logic.
We could devise a new method of seeing our world/politics/faith, free of the lies we hold as our rock of foundation. Through faith in religion and facts of science and honest politics we can satisfy our needs to believe and begin the psychical/physical healing that our internal/external states need to move on. Simple isn't it. But it is so much easier to remain human animals than to progress to another level of understanding. Lies are easier to believe than working for solutions based on sharing, caring and compassion. You have proven that. The Dalai Lama has even taken to trying to understand the intertwining of science and faith, so some are working on this problem to better understand what assumptions have missed. It seems you're the one obsessed with science-
I found this data. It is estimated that we receive around 400 billion bits of information every second. Our awareness is of a mere 2,000 bits. This means that 0.0000005% of sensory input is actually analysed and used. In other words, 99.9999995% of the experiences we have are somehow *lost*, at least at our current state of awareness. I like to remember that we use almost none of our brain, something like 14%.
These are what, facts? Prove it. You lie and lie and lie. The brain is in use at all times and it is constantly being used- all areas, all the time. It is a data absorbing unit that stores all our experiences as well as having a built in harddrive to draw from. Everything is there - all we have to do is retrieve it. As bits of info get shunted further into our memory they make up who and what we are and why we become that way. So the material is there it just becomes overwhelmed wirth constant use and immediate needs for say, survival, dominate for periods of time, as it speeds through its day. That is why we do so many dumb repetitive things daily. It programs us to the way we experience life by being programmed by the things we need to do and think to satisfy its pleasure seeking prerogatives. Your brain is the boss and it tells you how to deal with each moment. This is why we selectively choose how we function in this world. Only those who can see the bigger picture truly feel the way it channels us into our little world. This is what develops our self esteem and values we follow. Inclusion/exclusion is what makes it work. That is why we forget, make up stories to fit the moment, lie and follow the leader.
God may soon become passe, I have an experience, as real as sunrise, that there is something beyond conscious thought. What it is I wouldn't even begin to try to describe, and yet, it is probably one of the few things I can truly say I know.
Either way, as Einstein, Bohm, Penrose, and many many others of the very best minds of our time have noted, myths are a necessary part of the human experience.
My favorite Gospel is Mark, which I believe to be the oldest. Jesus' teaching are presented in a very straight forward manner and there is little if any talk of Jesus being anything other than a teacher and healer. To me, his humanity rings very clear, and the easy style of the story makes it an enjoyable read. I come away from it feeling that Jesus was a good man, if not a bit of a foolish one.
A real experience, Hmmm. Great tell us about it oh wise one. Was it a moment of extreme cosmic bliss. an awakening, a temporal lobe seizure, a bout with ADHD? Funny stuff.
What is this vision you had? A temporal lobe seizure no doubt. The mind is truly the last mystery we have to conquer, for it is a revelation of its own creation. Myths are common and thematic to human experience. It is a rhythm like the seasons that guide us like using the stars- which coincidentally is where most myths become fact in our minds. Funny how heaven and voices from god all come from "Out There", isn't it? People of knowlege have always had to use their best guess scenario and so it remains our foundation of thought. You are no exception. Me, I rely on the emotion of the human condition to derive the points of contention between man and himself. The animal in the man is what controls the vision of serenity here on earth. It is the inner subconscious that triggers all our myths and beliefs based on fear and acceptance. Sex, food and death are the basis of human intellect and all thinking revolves around these concepts- our survival matrix. There, another clue to why we lie, cheat and steal. I give away too much about the simple ways life has to get straight. Good luck getting past those forces.
Mark is your favorite book? What does that mean? You've been indoctronated to believe that joy, love and happiness is in the"Book"? None of the accounts are consistent with each other so all of them are false and based on made up stories, molostly related to other myths from the past and wishful thinking. So how can any be taken seriously. Oh, I know, you love a good story especially if it isn't remotely based in facts. This is the MSM/religion that dictated our inability to cope with truth or the ahuman/animal paradox. You have succumbed to too many forces of conflict without being able to understand basic concepts. No wonder you are so confused and are ready to believe any lie you're fed. Tough to accept that we're all losers here when it is a prerequisite of living to be a winner. Or the shame that follows if you're not.
In summing up, your passive aggressive stance is not fooling me. You pretend to be understanding while performing ad hominem attacks, under the pretense of being understanding, caring and considerate. You stoop to the levels you would use to attack others when they ask you to come and deal with someone, like you're purer in virtue. Like scottK, at a whim when it is personal to you, you defend someones honour, but do the same to others. You are a phony and a lying cheat, so back to your foxhole and hide from the world in fear and anger, praying to your gods for solace or at least pretend to. While you lie your way through another conflict of ideologies, rest assured you are merely succumbing to your basal animal instincts and deserve the lies you live with.
Once again I repeat- If you're not willing to challenge your preconceived notions then you will never rise above the challenge. I'm not interested in your arguing but perhaps a dialogue on the topic would help. If you wish to debate over the semantics and semiotics of the purpose of gods and science, start your own thread and state your stance, rather than taking this post on a wild goose chase of slights and allusions.
If you want to discuss issues on this post, explain the few words I put down at the start of this post. Start with - "If we're all gods children... then, What's so special about Jesus?"
The source of thought is imagination. It is not myth or ADHD. If you can imagine a creator or supreme consciousness, then it is real. If you cannot imagine the same then it is not there, and that is real. Better to believe what you can see than what you can picture. The basis of fact in either case is belief. Either you believe what you think you see, or you see what you believe you think. It is all relative to what is real in your life. Imagination, lies or myth can't create or manufacture what is in front of you. Seeing it develop in your mind and believing it is real and testing its construction can only do that. Until someone can prove otherwise, nothing else matters. Such is the chemistry and science of the mind.
If you must lie or sway from the theme then you are evading the question. If you can keep your concentration focused, then the meaning can be broken down, and maybe you can stay on topic. Try to remain focused, for once in your life.