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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 9:31 pm 
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I"m just going to chime in here briefly and thank DK for his friendly forthrightness. I think you're asking the right person, DK, those difficult questions.

I've always found mga to be very honest and open about his lack of religious belief.

Both of your attitudes are very refreshing...

Catherine

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 10:55 pm 
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DarkKnight2 wrote:
You know mga there are people like that all over the world. There are those here who think that God protects them and they handles snakes. I don't know if he does or not. Maybe it is just their faith that protects them and then again, there are those that have been bitten and not died and those that have died.


don't be fooled by these people. as a youngster, i collected snakes. some would bite others not. they were harmless snakes. i also had a "pet" boa and he grew to about 6 feet long. as long as a snake is fed, they usually don't bite, and if a snake is handled frequently they usually wont bite. that's the secret...make sure they are fed and keep them used to being handled. it's not a religious thing...it's more an act of deception...like a magic show.


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I would not attempt to change your mind, nor would I say what you believe is wrong. It is what you believe and therefor to you it is truth. I believe differently and believe that there is a God, I also cannot answer why at times there is pain and suffering in the world. Maybe that is the grand design, maybe we have to learn to live with ourselves without help. So far I think we are doing a pretty shitty job.

What is good is that we are able to carry on a conversation without insulting the way each of us believes. I have never "talked" to someone who does not believe in something. So I hope you do not take this personal when I ask a question.

Would you care to share why you changed your belief? If not then I understand that also.

Thanks
DK


what changed my mind? probably many things. but, as i stated before, i am at peace with it and i haven't regretted being an atheist..ever.

i can't specifically say why, nor can i give a single answer without you and i end up debating. however, i can accept those who choose to believe as long as you don't force or even attempt to change my mind. i'm always polite to the mormons or jehohva witnesses that come to the door and we usually have a great conversation because i immediately tell them i am an atheist. surprisingly we talk about other things and usually have a good laugh...then they go on their way.

being an atheist also means to me there is no devil either...so all that "satan worship" stuff is pure nonsense. as for an after life.....it'll never happen. we are just another life form on earth and when we die we die. therefore, make the best of your life, be happy but don't be disillusioned about some "hereafter" that will never happen.

:)

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:25 pm 
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make the best of your life, be happy but don't be disillusioned about some "hereafter" that will never happen.


Well we agree on all of that except for the hereafter. But once it happens, neither us will be around to say "Hey, I told you so."

I will though wish you peace.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 2:22 am 
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being an atheist also means to me there is no devil either...so all that "satan worship" stuff is pure nonsense. as for an after life.....it'll never happen. we are just another life form on earth and when we die we die. therefore, make the best of your life, be happy but don't be disillusioned about some "hereafter" that will never happen.


Couldnt agree with you more. I love the reactions I get with my "Atheist" shirt. People are such hypocrites. Thou shall not judge. My ass.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:25 am 
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Why not "play it safe" and believe in god? If your right and there is no god, then it won't matter since in that belief we become nothing. However if your wrong, then it would truly suck to burn in an eternal lake of sulfur as the bible says. If you are already a good person, your almost there anyway. (I know, define "good") What's it hurt to take a couple of minutes a day and bow before a creator. It's that pesky pride getting in the way. My personal belief is that it is harder to believe in a god than not believing in god. It's kind of like being a cynic. That's the easy way out. I am not trying to convert you or anything like that, just posing a question. I hate when people force their opinion on you. If I remember right, I think there is a passage in the bible that says Jesus offered to convert someone and when they said no, he simply dusted off his sandals and moved on. No offense to Jehovah Witnesses, but I wish they would do that.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:56 am 
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Nice reply Kmat


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 2:34 pm 
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I would be bearing a false witness wouldnt I? I cant help how I am. You act like I do this as some sort of game. How often on here do I bring up being Atheist. I only use it to answer a question. I wear the shirt around to bring awareness to people that I have a right to religion or lack of religion. Name me one reason I should believe in a higher being. Show me proof without a book telling you otherwise. You live by a book that tells you if you think otherwise you are a sinner. It uses fear to keep people in. Fear of burning forever. Religion WILL be the reason for the death of mankind. Mark my words. You have no more right to push chrstianity down my throat than a terorist has to push Islam down your throat. I love how christians think its ok to push "THEIR" religion because it "right" to them but in the same breath its not right for a muslim to push Islam. Its the same concept. I denounce both. What if your god came back for the rapture and found I did no wrong to anyone therefor I get a "pass" to heaven but found that alot of believers promoted so much hate towards other factions they dont get to go. You dont know, I dont know, the preachers dont know. No one knows! No one will ever know. What will happen if I start walking around today and saying Im the son of god. Do you think people will believe me. Will I be crazy. I would probably be killed. I know YOU are not trying to push it down my throat but I go off on tangents because I get tired of defending myself. Its not personal I just "go off" when I start typing this stuff, you'll have excuse me. I go through this everyday at work. They cannot believe they work with an atheist. They bugged me and bugged me about it until I finally told them. I didnt bring it up, they did. Now they wont shut up.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:51 pm 
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I get tired of defending myself. Its not personal I just "go off" when I start typing this stuff, you'll have excuse me. I go through this everyday at work. They cannot believe they work with an atheist. They bugged me and bugged me about it until I finally told them. I didnt bring it up, they did. Now they wont shut up.


I can understand your feelings, but, I have to ask. Why are you defending yourself for your beliefs. I am a Catholic, I defend myself to no one. I don't walk around telling people I work with what my religion is. None of their business.

Not attempting to argue, but, why would you tell people with whom you work, what your beliefs are? On a forum, I can understand that it with stir discussion but at work.????


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:23 pm 
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kmac wrote:
Why not "play it safe" and believe in god? If your right and there is no god, then it won't matter since in that belief we become nothing. However if your wrong, then it would truly suck to burn in an eternal lake of sulfur as the bible says. If you are already a good person, your almost there anyway. (I know, define "good") What's it hurt to take a couple of minutes a day and bow before a creator. It's that pesky pride getting in the way. My personal belief is that it is harder to believe in a god than not believing in god. It's kind of like being a cynic. That's the easy way out. I am not trying to convert you or anything like that, just posing a question. I hate when people force their opinion on you. If I remember right, I think there is a passage in the bible that says Jesus offered to convert someone and when they said no, he simply dusted off his sandals and moved on. No offense to Jehovah Witnesses, but I wish they would do that.


i play it safe...i believe in no god(s)...no pearly gates...no lake of burning sulfer.

and, no, it took me a long time to become an atheist. it wasn't an "easy way out" as you stated. however, i've long since over came all the b/s fake garbage spewed out by religious people, just like i got over the easter bunny and santa.

you stated you "hate when people force themselves upon you", yet, in your reply you preached that i was taking "the easy way out". sorry, but the easy way out is to believe that there is some after life and some nice warm and fuzzy heaven like place waiting to greet you....sheesh.

i am very comfortable and confident being an atheist and i am proud of the fact that i am one.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:28 pm 
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kmac- it's not worth lying to yourself using Pascals wager. This is the copouts way to eternal bliss while ignoring the plight of human existence. It is convenient and fits what we wish/ want, but living a lie is no way to exist. Just look at the state of the world now after centuries of belief in a patriarchal system of masculine belief. It merely encourages your need to believe whatever you're told and don't investigate other possibilities- just like 911. Obedience to authority is its goal and helps you become an easily controlled tool for authority.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:46 pm 
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I can understand some not wanting to belive in God, Heaven and Hell and all the rest. But why ridicule someone who does?

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It is convenient and fits what we wish/ want, but living a lie is no way to exist.


You have no idea as to whether is is a lie or not and once we go and find out, there is no way to come back as say "I told you so." I make no attempt at telling you that you are wrong or that I am right. But that is my belief just like yours is yours. So why tell me I am living a lie, simply because you choose not to believe.

That is my problem with those that don't believe. Some tend to make fun of those of us that do. What point is it. You don't believe, I am not asking you to, so why the snipes, when they are uncalled for?

Are there that many non believers on this forum?


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:59 pm 
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Belief is in the mind of the intellect. If it is fabricated to control and oppress then it does nothing to create an ambient life on earth. If its purpose seems hell bent on armageddon then this is where it will lead. If on the other hand it is nurturing and respectful of all then it should be honored and obligated.

I have no fear of this life and its finality. If it takes a reward for you to believe then it has no place on earth. Pascal's wager is old and has been argued over for centuries.

Believe if you wish/want/ have to what you've been told. Whether it's true or not doesn't matter if it works. Like William James said- Belief in something doesn't make it true. It is true because we believe it.

Woody Allen said "I believe in death after life—the other way doesn't make any sense."

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I can understand some not wanting to belive in God, Heaven and Hell and all the rest. But why ridicule someone who does?


No ridicule intended. You can believe whatever you want. BUT if it is not true then all your assumptions are wrong about life, its purpose and meaning. Pascals wager could be construed as the desperate fear filled mans attempt to bring some form of clarity and understanding to a question that should have never been asked. Why not just accept your fate like all the other living things on earth? What is it about the anthropomorphic state of man that he has to deify his existence?

The easy way out seems to be believing in some force that governs and watches over you instead of facing the realities of life as to what they are- natural occurences and situations in time and space. Placing a deity at the head satisfies our fears but never ever allows for the human condition to be the real truth. This is why the patriarchal masculine god can't be real as men fabricate him to exist because he fabricated our existence? Can you think "Conundrum"?

Personally I believe that every day I see my creator and I appreciate it and acknowledge it daily, thanking it with each morning- it's right under my feet. Why look for illusions to guide you when terra firma is right there. Truth from fiction doesn't make it with me, but hey if it works for you then go for it. Like I said once you get past the propaganda and ask the right questions and reason the right answers, a whole new way of seeing the world opens up to you. If that scares you then stay in your comfort zone. Me, I personally see our time on earth as one where we should help each other and make a better world happen, since we are all brothers and sisters here. But if it is a lie then everything known is wrong and this patriarchal structure is nothing more than a maze to justify the mosaic of vertices- a caste system of obligation to superiority. My politics are based in Communityism and my beliefs are based in progressive reality. I don't care if I'm wrong because believing in reality is better than believing in fairy tales or fantasy. If you are right, I still don't care because I took control of my own life and gave up on wrong ways of seeing things, to accept a better way of dealing with things. I no longer blameshift for reasons other than their underlying causes. Not gods and devils but good and evils of men. This puts the proper perspective on things. Life to death are transitive and we should only concern ourselves with life. Death is the finality and nothing more. If we paid more attention to life, then death would not be feared, but understood.

If there is a god then who would he aspire to be like? Does he care more about life than death? After all, if he is the "Great Creator" then life should be his priority. I think he doesn't really give a shit anyway and we are the ones with a problem that needs a god that cares about all our absurd goings on in his name. Perhaps our soul(conscience) is more sensitive and heightened to believe because we have so little self control, and this is why we need and crave a god who will always forgive us our trespasses. When will we take responsibility for our own actions? Perhaps when we finally shake our addiction problems to a god that isn't there and spend our time helping each other, ending wars, and taking responsibility for our actions.

Like I said before this could merely be a survival mechanism that has developed from some primitive instinct somewhere between a sponge until man made his regal appearance. Being aware of our surroundings gave us a new perspective but may have been the catalyst for new ideas about our position on earth and the universe. Having a god in a position of authority and governing our lives works better and helps give the herd a homogeneus consistency. It allows for human frailty as an excuse for wars and oppression.

This is why it is said that if you think there is division between church and state, then you don't understand religion and politics. They are so inextricably entwined together that they can trace their roots to each other.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:46 pm 
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DarkKnight2 wrote:
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I get tired of defending myself. Its not personal I just "go off" when I start typing this stuff, you'll have excuse me. I go through this everyday at work. They cannot believe they work with an atheist. They bugged me and bugged me about it until I finally told them. I didnt bring it up, they did. Now they wont shut up.


I can understand your feelings, but, I have to ask. Why are you defending yourself for your beliefs. I am a Catholic, I defend myself to no one. I don't walk around telling people I work with what my religion is. None of their business.

Not attempting to argue, but, why would you tell people with whom you work, what your beliefs are? On a forum, I can understand that it with stir discussion but at work.????


I didnt want to. They kept asking and asking. I told them they would not like my answer. They kept asking and asking. Finally I told them. Ever since then they talk about it constantly. They dont do it to be mean but they are intrigued by my feelings. They ask questions on things and try to prove me wrong. Thats where its really at. Some of the conversations are really good. I feel strongly in my ideas. I dont second guess myself either. I dont do it to be different, funny, or cute. I REALLY feel this way. I dont think that there is a being higher than us.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:52 pm 
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i wasn't ridiculing anyone. i was merely answering a post...just as everyone else did.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:55 pm 
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PM sent mga


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