It would surprise me if any of our members believe Paul Wellstone's 'accident' was not actually murder. It has been explained too well how the plane went off track at precisely the time the pilot would have turned on guidance to the airport.

And vehicles were in the area.

And investigators were there quickly, meaning they would have had to be close by--not likely unless they were assigned to be.

Wellstone was winning the election!

I can't look at Norm Coleman without wondering what kind of person willingly profits from murder and acts as though he actually is the choice of the people.

And the anthrax, why has the person who used it never been 'found'? Let me see now, who has connections to the CIA?????

If you have time, also read "House of Bush, House of Saud" by Craig Unger. The subtitle is 'The Secret Relationship Between the World's Two Most Powerful Dynasties'.

will find them both and read them. Thank you.

Ditto D.K.

Dori: The "Anthrax Terrorist" has never been found for one very simple reason: He/she has NEVER BEEN LOOKED FOR. And you're absolutely right; the bookHouse of Bush, House of Saud needs to be read by EVERYBODY. It's a little sludgy to read...but only because it's so densely packed with facts. (Michael Moore started to tell a portion of that particular truth in "Fahrenheit 911. Isn't it scary how completely prescient that movie was now, a couple of years later?)

Just remember if you ever find yourself in any sort of debate with rightwad cheap-labor conservatives: They were wrong about EVERYTHING. And they still are...

I am constantly in debate with rightwad, cheap labor conservatives. That is why I haunt the computer and places like TVNL.

One has to do something to keep one's sanity.

Burying your head in the sand is, typically, a good way to keep your sanity. Not many people, like me, can really understand how the world works. The truth isn't for everyone, and I'm glad to see so many on here admit that.

Shhhhhhhhh........that is the sound of no one caring about what you think. You wouldn't recognize truth if it jumped up and slapped you in the face.

Easy question.

Easy answer.

The terrorists responsible for 9/11 have simply been too busy to strike again.

They're fighting a war in Iraq, a proxy war with Lebanon, salivating over Iran, looking to butt-scratch Syria, funding opposition in Venezuela, fanning fear-fires and finding excuses for Katrina.

And let's not forget having to take vacations.

Actually, posing the question shows a lack of consideration for their schedule and a lack of sympathy for weight of responsibility they carry.

Excellent Riterong2 and welcome to the board!

Riterong....fantastic answer!

YES, Welcome to TVNL.

Catherine

Greetings, Riterong2, and welcome aboard!

I read a pretty nifty essay at HuffPost by Bill Cusack on this very subject today. It's called "Osama Bin Laden Is Kicking..." It's HERE. It's long, but do read it all; well worth your time...

Conscience-challenged is a nice way of putting it. Another way to say it is that these people are psychopaths (albeit in suits and uniforms).

A major block many people seem to have is in accepting/understanding that there are some folks who are simply incapable of feeling anything but hate, or anything that speaks to a level of compassion most would regard as 'normal'. The evil is always projected "over there". It's the terrists. This type of thinking is then made to seep into the minds of people who are also either incapable or too ignorant to see it for what it is.

Andrew Lobaczewski, Ph.D. discusses this in a book called Political Ponerology: A Science on the Nature of Evil Adjusted for Political Purposes. Highly recomended. Here's a bit:

"It is a common phenomenon for a ponerogenic association or group to contain a particular ideology which always justifies its activities and furnishes certain propaganda motives. Even a small-time gang of hoodlums has its own melodramatic ideology and pathological romanticism. Human nature demands that vile matters be haloed by an over-compensatory mystique in order to silence one’s conscience and to deceive consciousness and critical faculties, whether one’s own or those of others.

If such an ponerogenic union could be stripped of its ideology, nothing would remain except psychological and moral pathology, naked and unattractive. Such stripping would of course provoke “moral outrage”, and not only among the members of the union; even normal people, who condemn this kind of union along with its ideologies, would feel hurt, deprived of something constituting part of their own romanticism, their way of perceiving reality. Perhaps even some of the readers of this book will resent the author’s stripping evil so unceremoniously of all its literary motifs. The job of effecting such a “strip-tease” may thus turn out to be much more difficult and dangerous than expected.

A primary ponerogenic union is formed at the same time as its ideology, perhaps even somewhat earlier. A normal person perceives such ideology to be different from the world of human concepts, obviously suggestive, and even primitively comical to a degree."

There's an article which makes liberal use of Lobaczewski's writings here:

http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/politica ... zewski.htm

enjoy!

That was an EXCELLENT link! Thanks much. Turnabout is fair play: "You Don't Have To Be A Sociopath To Be A Republican...But It Helps." http://cernigsnewshog.blogspot.com/2005/11/you-dont-have-to-sociopath-to-be.html (And follow all the hypertext links...)

Another informative book on the subject is People Of The Lie by M. Scott Peck which a friend recommended to me last year. Also, I have gotten the impression that John Dean's new one, Conservatives Without Conscience, deals with the same subject matter.

These are very sick people...

Nice link Angel.

Yer Welcome! The book itself is a knock-out.



Wow! Isn't it funny that after so many years in the white house, and so many legitimate sources pointing to it, that so many folks still don't get it about these guys?? They are truly psychopaths! And they are in the process of initiating WW3.



I read Road Less Travelled many years ago and remember it making an impression on me then, and have been meaning to read this one too. Recently I read Martha Stoudt's 'The Sociopath Next Door' which discusses the childhood behaviors of someone who may, in fact, be W. Stoudt does an interesting thing by looking at sociopathic behavior in the context of the American reaction to 911. But look to Lobaczewski for his experience of it in Poland decades ago, and how the process of ponerization seems to be the mechanism by which a nation turns totalitarian, ANYWHERE.

The Dean book looks interesting too. The thing about true conservatives, if they are capable of thinking on the'r own, is that they are largely in disagreement with the Bush Admin. Never thought I'd here myself say this, but Pat Buchannon actually has a pretty good head on his shoulders - relative to the neocons anyway. Even if some of what he says if incorrect, a lot of what he says seems based on the dictates of sanity and common sense!! Most of the the rest of them, dems included, are political animals and mostly, sadly, quite useless.