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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:05 pm 
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Someone who is born in America


Only the slaves themselves were brought here by force. All of the decedents were born here.

Just out of curiosity, what is it that you are trying to get at? That black people do not belong here?


If there were any of the slaves left alive then I would say yes, those who were slaves would deserve monetary reparations. Since there are none, I do believe that the reparations to the decedents of slaves should be that of the striving towards true equality, which though there have been great strides towards this goal, there is still a long way to go. The thought that there is equality in our current system is a myth.
You see, there is a segment of society who believes that they deserve to have more than others. These people look down at others as less deserving because of what they do for a living. Let me ask you oh wise one. If someone's job in society is picking garbage up off the streets of anycity USA, because this person is only a lowly trash picker, do you feel that he does not deserve to have the benefits of medical, housing, or even food?
If you think that there is actual equality in the system, then you are deluding yourself. Yes, I do believe that there should be reparations, though not in the monetary sense, and also, not only for the decedents of the slaves of the past, but also for the wage slaves of the present.


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Good day.

Can anyone answer the question, does liberalism mean pro-black?

Thank you.


I am seeing a pattern here.

Let me start off by saying that I prefer the word Progressive over liberalism.

progressive (adj.) Moving forward; advancing. progressive (adj.) Proceeding in steps; continuing steadily by increments: progressive change. progressive (n.) A person who actively favors or strives for progress toward better conditions, as in society or government.

liberalism (n.) The state or quality of being liberal. liberalism (n.) A political theory founded on the natural goodness of humans and the autonomy of the individual and favoring civil and political liberties, government by law with the consent of the governed, and protection from arbitrary authority. liberalism (n.) An economic theory in favor of laissez-faire, the free market, and the gold standard.

This means that I am pro humanity, and this includes all races. I want progress for all of humanity.
Now, let me ask you a question. Should I base my belief system upon a persons skin color?

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:17 pm 
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derrion wrote:
justinmoon22 wrote:
derrion wrote:
DarkKnight2 wrote:
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job training, housing and health care, regardless of race or economic position


I do also, as long as they are here legally.


Good day.

Well one thing concerning black people being here, it is illegal... but are here and have been afforded the least of the things that should be afforded and the things that black people have been afforded have been ill afforded after many lamentations, trials and suffering for the least of the affords.

By the way who is legal, and what makes it legal? The laws seem to change for convience as to who is in power and what way the law will benefit them during their term of power.

Thank you.


A natuarl born citizen. Someone who is born in America. Having waited your turn in line along with othere to get "legal" citizenship.


Good day.

Well black people were brought here by force... does that count? And to add the only people who were born in what is now called the United States of America is the red man, who is called by the name Indian. Everyone else migrated here, oh yeah, except black people they were brought here in chains.



Thank you.


WHAT IS YOUR POINT??!! What is the premise of this. We dont dispute that. Why are you fixated on blacks. You have referenced them 3 times in one thread called "is it right". What is right?? To answer you, all black americans are Americans. No black American alive came here on a boat. They were born here hence the name natuarl born citizen.
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And to add the only people who were born in what is now called the United States of America is the red man, who is called by the name Indian.
I was born in the USA. I am an American. My ancestors were English. Not me.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:33 pm 
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CrimsonEagle wrote:





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If there were any of the slaves left alive then I would say yes, those who were slaves would deserve monetary reparations. Since there are none, I do believe that the reparations to the decedents of slaves should be that of the striving towards true equality, which though there have been great strides towards this goal, there is still a long way to go. The thought that there is equality in our current system is a myth.


Debt that is owed is owed until paid. In all cases of death before a debt is paid, power of attorney refers to the next of kin.


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You see, there is a segment of society who believes that they deserve to have more than others. These people look down at others as less deserving because of what they do for a living. Let me ask you oh wise one. If someone's job in society is picking garbage up off the streets of anycity USA, because this person is only a lowly trash picker, do you feel that he does not deserve to have the benefits of medical, housing, or even food?


All things in life should be treated upon it merit, not its position.

The trash collector in fact is a much needed integral part of this society.






Now, let me ask you a question. Should I base my belief system upon a persons skin color?


No you should not. Base it on merit

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 3:01 am 
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OHHH I SEE! Lets punish the blacks who dont work and are on welfare. I see where this is going. See....I give people like you enough rope because you will hang yourself. Well what about the whitey. What about the caucasians who dont work? And just a little history leason......not all slaves were black. I come from a white background and my great great grandparents were slaves. They saw an opening and they ran away and didnt stop until they hit Clinton, Tennessee. My great grandmother married and came to Ohio and thus here I am still. Would they have wanted reperations. No. It wasnt the govnt that did it.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 10:04 am 
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Well black people were brought here by force... does that count? And to add the only people who were born in what is now called the United States of America is the red man, who is called by the name Indian. Everyone else migrated here, oh yeah, except black people they were brought here in chains.


Well let's see I think don't think the Chinese wanted to come here and work on chain gangs, I don't think the Indians wanted to go to reservations, I don't think the Japanese wanted to go to concentration camps.

I had nothing to do with them coming over here in "chains" but, they were "sold"into slavery by other Africans. Slavery, whether right or wrong, was and is a way of life for thousands of years. There are still African and South American tribes I believe that still practice putting int the conquered tribes into slavery. There are still countries that consider woman as property.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 10:10 am 
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justinmoon22 wrote:
OHHH I SEE! Lets punish the blacks who dont work and are on welfare. I see where this is going. See....I give people like you enough rope because you will hang yourself. Well what about the whitey. What about the caucasians who dont work? And just a little history leason......not all slaves were black. I come from a white background and my great great grandparents were slaves. They saw an opening and they ran away and didnt stop until they hit Clinton, Tennessee. My great grandmother married and came to Ohio and thus here I am still. Would they have wanted reperations. No. It wasnt the govnt that did it.


Good day.

None of that has to do with what is right.

Thank you.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 10:20 am 
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DarkKnight2 wrote:
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Well black people were brought here by force... does that count? And to add the only people who were born in what is now called the United States of America is the red man, who is called by the name Indian. Everyone else migrated here, oh yeah, except black people they were brought here in chains.


Well let's see I think don't think the Chinese wanted to come here and work on chain gangs, I don't think the Indians wanted to go to reservations, I don't think the Japanese wanted to go to concentration camps.

I had nothing to do with them coming over here in "chains" but, they were "sold"into slavery by other Africans. Slavery, whether right or wrong, was and is a way of life for thousands of years. There are still African and South American tribes I believe that still practice putting int the conquered tribes into slavery. There are still countries that consider woman as property.


Good day.

No one suffered more from the pangs of chatteel slavery and the inhuman treatment than black people, who suffered over three hundred ten (310) years. The United States of America is not even much older than than that, not even half. then after that black people were just hanged for being black for another 100 years.


Anyways, none of that has anuthing to do with what is right.

And most of you who debate this take it very personal and I know why, it is because it is an attack against you and your way of life, whether you agree or not. I am just pointing out these truths.

Thank you.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 11:38 am 
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I was born in the USA. I am an American. My ancestors were English. Not me.


Well put.

I am not angred by this discussion. I just wonder at why nobody ever talks about the Black Slave holders?

In an 1856 letter to his wife Mary Custis Lee, Robert E. Lee called slavery "a moral and political evil." Yet he concluded that black slaves were immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, socially and physically.

The fact is large numbers of free Negroes owned black slaves; in fact, in numbers disproportionate to their representation in society at large. In 1860 only a small minority of whites owned slaves. According to the U.S. census report for that last year before the Civil War, there were nearly 27 million whites in the country. Some eight million of them lived in the slaveholding states.

The census also determined that there were fewer than 385,000 individuals who owned slaves (1). Even if all slaveholders had been white, that would amount to only 1.4 percent of whites in the country (or 4.8 percent of southern whites owning one or more slaves).

In the rare instances when the ownership of slaves by free Negroes is acknowledged in the history books, justification centers on the claim that black slave masters were simply individuals who purchased the freedom of a spouse or child from a white slaveholder and had been unable to legally manumit them. Although this did indeed happen at times, it is a misrepresentation of the majority of instances, one which is debunked by records of the period on blacks who owned slaves. These include individuals such as Justus Angel and Mistress L. Horry, of Colleton District, South Carolina, who each owned 84 slaves in 1830. In fact, in 1830 a fourth of the free Negro slave masters in South Carolina owned 10 or more slaves; eight owning 30 or more (2).

According to federal census reports, on June 1, 1860 there were nearly 4.5 million Negroes in the United States, with fewer than four million of them living in the southern slaveholding states. Of the blacks residing in the South, 261,988 were not slaves. Of this number, 10,689 lived in New Orleans. The country's leading African American historian, Duke University professor John Hope Franklin, records that in New Orleans over 3,000 free Negroes owned slaves, or 28 percent of the free Negroes in that city.

To return to the census figures quoted above, this 28 percent is certainly impressive when compared to less than 1.4 percent of all American whites and less than 4.8 percent of southern whites. The statistics show that, when free, blacks disproportionately became slave masters.



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 11:48 am 
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Good day.

Well i never put any color on it. I am only concerned with the right thing being done.

Everyone, black, brown, red, yellow and white has to reap what they sow, whether it is good or evil.

And I imagine that sense the majority of "slavers" this meaning, Slave traders, slave captures, slave sellers, slave ship owners, slave ship captains, slave auctioners, slave overseers and a vast collection of others who benefitted directly from dealing in the slave trade where not black. There is little mention of black slave holders.

It kinda of like knowing about the black presidents of the United States of America.

Thank you.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 12:30 pm 
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And I imagine that sense the majority of "slavers" this meaning, Slave traders, slave captures, slave sellers, slave ship owners, slave ship captains, slave auctioners, slave overseers and a vast collection of others who benefitted directly from dealing in the slave trade where not black. There is little mention of black slave holders.


See now you are changing the game. No where in your previous post did you mention anything about any of the others that were involved in slave trading. Are you proposing to hold the native american indians accountable for their ownership of black slaves? You need to do some research because it was not just America that owned slaves and slaves of all colors have been owned.

Just whom do you want to hold accountable? Not the US governement? It did not condone slavery in fact, that is why the civil war was faught. If anything, the US should be thanked for freeing the slaves.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 12:57 pm 
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DarkKnight2 wrote:
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And I imagine that sense the majority of "slavers" this meaning, Slave traders, slave captures, slave sellers, slave ship owners, slave ship captains, slave auctioners, slave overseers and a vast collection of others who benefitted directly from dealing in the slave trade where not black. There is little mention of black slave holders.


See now you are changing the game. No where in your previous post did you mention anything about any of the others that were involved in slave trading. Are you proposing to hold the native american indians accountable for their ownership of black slaves? You need to do some research because it was not just America that owned slaves and slaves of all colors have been owned.

Just whom do you want to hold accountable? Not the US governement? It did not condone slavery in fact, that is why the civil war was faught. If anything, the US should be thanked for freeing the slaves.


Good day.

I am not changing anything. It is a grand issue and I have yet to cover all of its complexities or details.

Chattel slavery was a system that involved all of that I mentioned and some more that I have not mentioned.

My reserach is on and continuing. I am not proposing anything. I am simply pointing out the wrong of a thing, what should be right and the truth that backs the right. Some or most may not agree, that is their perogative, yet in still it does not sway the truth.

The United States of America didn't condone slavery? The framers of the idea of the United States of America were slave owners themselves.

The United States of America should not be thanked for righting a wrong that they involved themselves in and took advantage of more than any of the other peoples that you have mentioned reaped of its benefit.

Someone broke into my car by smashing the window and then they took my compact disc player, later on they came to be and told me that they did. Should I thank them? My compact disc player is still gone, my window is still broken and security has been breached.

Thank you.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:10 pm 
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My reserach is on and continuing. I am not proposing anything. I am simply pointing out the wrong of a thing, what should be right and the truth that backs the right. Some or most may not agree, that is their perogative, yet in still it does not sway the truth.

The United States of America didn't condone slavery? The framers of the idea of the United States of America were slave owners themselves.


Abraham Lincon propsed freeing the slaves, when the south did not do that, they succeed from the Union and the civil war was faught. Since the civil war was started to free the slaves, then I believe those that were freed should thank those that lost ancestors in the war. If you want to hold the United States accountable, then I hold it response for the loss of my ancestors.

You must be going to propose something? For the sake of discussion, let us say that you are correct in your assumption that the US should be held accountable for those slaves. What would you propose that this country do about it?

How would you arrange monteray payment? Not all blacks were slaves and not all slaves were black.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:50 pm 
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DarkKnight2 wrote:
Quote:
My reserach is on and continuing. I am not proposing anything. I am simply pointing out the wrong of a thing, what should be right and the truth that backs the right. Some or most may not agree, that is their perogative, yet in still it does not sway the truth.

The United States of America didn't condone slavery? The framers of the idea of the United States of America were slave owners themselves.


Abraham Lincon propsed freeing the slaves, when the south did not do that, they succeed from the Union and the civil war was faught. Since the civil war was started to free the slaves, then I believe those that were freed should thank those that lost ancestors in the war. If you want to hold the United States accountable, then I hold it response for the loss of my ancestors.

You must be going to propose something? For the sake of discussion, let us say that you are correct in your assumption that the US should be held accountable for those slaves. What would you propose that this country do about it?

How would you arrange monteray payment? Not all blacks were slaves and not all slaves were black.


Good day.

As I stated earlier I am not proposing anything, especially if the guilty party has no inclination to assume its guilt.

I woluld not arrange anything until an offer had been made. I am not selling merchandise. I need to know if the guilty who have reaped in benefit want to be sincere. Who is the beneficial party today? The slavemasters children. Who is the debt owed to? The descendants of those who were held in the system of chattel slavery.

A debt is owed and continued until paid.

The very least releif is owed not on what equaled that of the past but brought to terms at the value of todays market.

Another thing President Abraham Lincoln Emancipation Proclamation was not about slaves. That is one of the mis-understood items.

You know its really truthful and sad that The United States of America wants to initiate the chattel system of slavery and then in the same braeth wants to take credit for "freeing" slaves. And the word free is rhetoric.

Like I also said earlier, I am not at all interested who else is righted because of a wrong, irrespective of color. Right is right and wrong is wrong. If a black, brown, red,yellow or white has been wronged then a nation who so-calls says that it is for right should do right for all.

It seems that the right is only right when it is right for only those who benefit from it.

Thank you.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:10 am 
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Derrion. What's your point in this thread? I've yet to figure out what you are trying to accompish.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:19 am 
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The point is of discussion concerning the question at the beginning of the thread.

People have reponded to the question of the thread and I have countered with my opinion.

It is the same point as most "discussion forum threads" go... Nina.

Do you have a opinionated answer for the question of the thread?

Let me post it again:

Quote:
Do liberals believe that the black descendants of the African people who were brought to this country (United States of America) by force and then held here and forced into a life of bondage and servitude, should be given reparations or as I like to put it, "awards for damages inflicted under cruel and injust treatment", for the three hundred ten (310) years of "chattel" slavery that black people were subjected to?

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fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth. As he has injured the other, so he is to be injured.

Accept Your Own and Be Yourself ~ Master Fard Muhammad


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