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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:13 am 
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Jobot, You may want to go back and read the link you posted more closely. It goes on the explain how condradtions can easily be made by taking things out of context etc. I also haven't read the whole thing yet, but I will go back. It is a pretty good link, but it is about bible contradictions answered.

mga, No I don't expect everyone to believe the bible nor am I trying to convince anyone here of it. What I was pointing out was that even an atheist cannot discount the bible because just like you said, even if you don't believe in God or that Jesus was God's son, you shouldn't discount the whole thing as false because like you said it IS historical. However, to totally discount other parts of it to be false because it was written by man I think is also unfair. ALL history is written and documented by man/woman because .........who else is going to do it? Aliens? jkg there.

I know I haven't covered the tower of bable yet, but why is that to say that ancient people didn't try to construct a tower high enough to reach God? Yes it may seem simple minded to us, but that isn't to say they didn't try. I realize your point on that was to make them sound stupid, but so we know they were stupid? I don't. Heck, folks thought De Vinci was wacked out. He drew pictures of the helicopter 500 years before one was really invented. Anyway........I'm sure there's more, but my fingers are tiresd.


Last edited by Nina on Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:25 am 
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Ohhhhhhh you mis-read what I wrote (I've never said to be the best writer) "His tomb was Ramses tomb. I wasn't referencing God or Jesus in that. I was speaking of finding Ramses himself. His body, his burriel spot Etc. Sorry you didn't understand my intent.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:05 pm 
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So according to the bible- which is inspired by god, who knows all- which is worse to end up in? Heaven or hell? Don't forget that an all knowing, all seeing god inspired the bibles' creation and therefor it HAS to be completely accurate. I mean- It's god we're talking about here. He doesn't make mistakes.

Oh except for his biggest blunder- Positing himself as perfect and then creating man in his image.

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 Post subject: contradiction's
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:10 pm 
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Jobot - not trying to be nasty - but I think you posted so called contradiction's by different people who witnessed same event. Again going back to interpretation.

There's also scripture where Jesus admonished a follower for calling him perfect. His response was - why call me perfect - there is none perfect save my Father which is in Heaven.

My quote: If Jesus was not perfect then no one stands a snowballs chance of making it to heaven. But then again mere man who feared truth persecuted and killed him. He died for our sins so maybe there is a light at the end of the tunnel

Are you confusing Jesus and God's word to prove contradiction's?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:47 pm 
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actually, Do.q god apparently did make some mistakes and he allowed things to get so out of hand that he had to wipe the slate clean and start all over again.

by this i mean the fable of noah's ark. god realized he created a mess on earth so he had to wipe out all those meaningless humans. almost like a kid bored with his toys, he just throws them away and starts over again.

so, he created this huge flood and slaughtered everything alive, except for the few on the ark. lol...not a very friendly god if he felt he had to wipe out even innocent animals too....that bastard. if he was the all knowing all powerful fool they say he is, why didn't he just create a plague that wiped out only humans? better yet, why didn't he just freakin appear and tell everyone to straighten out?

so, anyways, realizing he made a major mistake, he saved noah and his family (as if they were the only good people on earth.... :roll: ) and started all over again.

lol....sorry, i can't believe this crap, nor could i ever put my faith in the hands of a "god" who feels justified killing thousands of animals and human being just because he made a mistake. that's hardly a 'god" to me, but someone who is more like.....like.....a hitler or stalin!!! gees...do you think they were the second coming and we didn't know it??? :shock:

all kidding aside, the so called "great flood" is now believed to be the mediterreanean sea flooding the valley where the black sea is now. scientists have discovered that a great earth quake had opened the land up and the mediterranean sea flooded the entire region. since people didn't understand that back then, it was obviously an act of god.

map:

http://www.iapscience.com/img/Black_Sea_map.png

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 Post subject: Discovery of Noah's Ark for MGA and Jobot
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 2:10 pm 
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www.arkdiscovery.com/noah's_ark.htm

www.arkdiscovery.com/

CBS showed a special in 1993 entitled "The Incredible Dicovery of Noah's Ark" The first is a work of fiction claiming to be a documentary
skepdic.com/noahsark.html-26k

Sun Pictures and the Noah's Ark Hoax.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/woodmorappe-review.html

Will McGivern's expedition.
www.renewamerica.us/columns/creech/040510-35k

Ronald Wyatt
www.christcenteredmall.com
ark and other important discoveries relating to the Bible
www.wyattmuseum.com

cbs11tv.com-Texans Part of Possible Noahs Ark Discovery
cbs11tv.com/topstories/local_story_177234625.html-26k
Quote- I have some personal friends from Texas, but for the most part I have become very skeptical of Texan politicians (due to present day events and the news medias lack of truthful reporting and propaganda spewed on todays airwaves).

I hope this helps you two - I personally want to be a part of the rapture and reside in New Jerrusalem. I would love for all I have come in contact with to share in the experience with me. It is your choice alone to make. I will not twist arms or argue the point of who is right and who is wrong. Peace Brothers and Sisters - Amen


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 Post subject: mga saying God made mistakes and wiped all off the face of
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 2:25 pm 
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Mistakes were mans doing. Soddom and Gamorra became similar to what is taking place in our society today.

God gave three days for at least 3 just men to be found in Soddom and Gamorra. The only one found was Lot and his wife. Again personal choice of man. That's also the choice man has today. Many will be called but few will be chosen. I hope I am chosen and others I know and don't know will be included in the rapture along side of me.


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 Post subject: Contradictions
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 3:40 pm 
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Jobot's list of contradictions.

I would like to start with contradiction # 1. No research just personal thoughts with maybe a little common sense included.

God is satisfied/unsatisfied with his work.

God created the heavens and the earth in 6 days. On the 7th day he rested and was satisfied with his work.

At a very different period in time and seeing what mankind has done to his masterpiece he was sorry and disappointed with his work. He wanted to give something beautiful but it was made dirty and ugly. Even then he blamed himself for trying to give us something and having us turn our backs on him.

This goes to show just how interpetation can put a slant on an original idea and change a whole context.

Have you ever done anything and regretted your decision?

Pity the one who is incapable of admitting he may have been in error and made a mistake.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 5:13 pm 
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Nina wrote:
Jobot, You may want to go back and read the link you posted more closely. It goes on the explain how condradtions can easily be made by taking things out of context etc. I also haven't read the whole thing yet, but I will go back. It is a pretty good link, but it is about bible contradictions answered.


I didn't look at that site very closely, true. But I did read enough to see that it was about "Bible contradictions answered." Like he said, though, "We cannot prove that something is NOT a contradiction. Instead, all that is required of us is to come up with plausible or reasonable, even possible explanations so that what is purported to be a contradiction is not necessarily a contradiction." Even he admits that he can't prove that they're not contradictions. Why? Because they are!
I also find it quite amusing that some religious people can't even admit that the Bible contradicts itself. I was raised as a Christian Scientist. So, growing up I had to read the Bible quite often. Even back then I was never brainwashed enough to not see that contradictions do exist.

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 Post subject: Re: Discovery of Noah's Ark for MGA and Jobot
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 5:31 pm 
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dee35ann wrote:
www.arkdiscovery.com/noah's_ark.htm

I hope this helps you two - I personally want to be a part of the rapture and reside in New Jerrusalem. I would love for all I have come in contact with to share in the experience with me. It is your choice alone to make. I will not twist arms or argue the point of who is right and who is wrong. Peace Brothers and Sisters - Amen



First, a 515 foot boat held 2 of every species on earth? For real? lol

Secondly, you just took this one step too far. We're debating about the Bible..Now you come in and try to involve me in the rapture? I'll have no part in this mass murder just so you can be happy in heaven. :shock: geez..

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Last edited by jobot on Fri Oct 20, 2006 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Contradictions
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 5:45 pm 
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dee35ann wrote:
Jobot's list of contradictions.

I would like to start with contradiction # 1. No research just personal thoughts with maybe a little common sense included.

Common sense huh? No need to insult... I simply believe in scientifically proven facts as opposed to religious mumbo jumbo. There's so many different religions in this world that believe in different things. So, which one's right. ...Oh, yeah, sorry, I forgot about the rapture. You're right!

God is satisfied/unsatisfied with his work.

God created the heavens and the earth in 6 days. On the 7th day he rested and was satisfied with his work.

How many days later was it again that he decided he was unsatisfied and destroyed it?

At a very different period in time and seeing what mankind has done to his masterpiece he was sorry and disappointed with his work. He wanted to give something beautiful but it was made dirty and ugly. Even then he blamed himself for trying to give us something and having us turn our backs on him.

This goes to show just how interpetation can put a slant on an original idea and change a whole context.

Have you ever done anything and regretted your decision?

Pity the one who is incapable of admitting he may have been in error and made a mistake.

Blaming others for his 'mistakes.' Nicely done, Mr.Perfection. If he's really so perfect, he should never have made a mistake in the first place by creating something that wasn't perfect. ...oh, right! We screwed it up. ..Shoot.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:32 pm 
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ummmm...dee? is that the proof of the "ark" you are counting on?

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 Post subject: Noah's Ark
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:30 pm 
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mga: is this the proof I was relying on.

No mga, I gave you a starting point - you seem to be pretty fair minded. I truly hope you will da a little research on your own to show me the error

in my way of thinking. We haven't a thing to lose and we may have a meeting of minds. There is a possibility, while teaching there is a chance of learning.

I would never call anyone stupid - I truly believe everyone is a genius in at least one area and uneducated in many many other areas.

Because one does not agree with me isn't a sign of stupidity - it only proves they have not walked in my shoes nor experienced my way of life.

Like it or not we are a part to a certain degree of everyone we have met.


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 Post subject: Re: Noah's Ark
PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 6:09 am 
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dee35ann wrote:
There is a possibility, while teaching there is a chance of learning....
Because one does not agree with me isn't a sign of stupidity - it only proves they have not walked in my shoes nor experienced my way of life.


Then, since we don't agree with you, is this a sign of our intelligence? :!:

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 7:11 am 
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Quote:
"The problem is not with human limitations, as some claim. The problem is the bible itself. People who are free of theological bias notice that the bible contains hundreds of discrepancies. Should it surprise us when such a literary and moral mish-mash, taken seriously, causes so much discord?"
(Dan Barker in Losing Faith in Faith.)

Here are some contradictions within the bible about the ark:

How many animals in the ark?

Genesis 6:19 "And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark."

Genesis 7:8-9: "Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of everything that creepeth upon the earth, There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the femal, as God had commanded Noah."

Genesis 7:15 "And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life."

Geneses 7:2 "Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female, and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female."

Barker goes on to say that
Quote:
it is always scholarly to consider the original languages, but why should it be necessary with the "word of God?" An omnipotent, omniscient deity should have made his all-important message unmistakenly clear to everyone, everywhere, at all times. No one should have to learn an extinct language to get God's message, especially an ancient language about which there is so much scholarly disagreement. If the English translation is flawed or imprecise, then God failed to get his point across to English speakers. A true fundamentalist should consider the English version of the bible to be just as inerrant as the original because if we admit that human error was possible in the translation, then it is equally possible in the original writing.
(Source: Dan Barker: Losing Faith in Faith)

Interesting links: http://www.ffrf.org

http://www.infidelguy.com/

AND I guess you all know this thread has been hijacked. :) It started out about ghosts and hauntings, now we're talking about the ark and other aspects of the bible! Let's try to continue the thread as it was intended. Discussions about ghosts and hauntings are always going to include references to one's religious beliefs but ghosts and hauntings and whether or not we believe in them was the original thread topic. Let's get back to that aspect of the discussion, please.

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