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 Post subject: BUSINESSES BAN BRATTY KIDS
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:30 pm 
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Businesses Ban Bratty Kids
Restaurants and Hotels Are Saying No To Misbehaving Children



(CBS) Comedian Adrianne Frost was so fed up with other people's kids that she wrote a book called "I Hate Other People's Kids."

It's so bad, Frost said that if kids walk into a restaurant she's dining in, she will leave. If they sit down behind her on a plane, "I jump out with a parachute," Frost told The Early Show consumer correspondent Susan Koeppen, who has a year-old son.

The Early Show is beginning a three-part series called "The Bratty Bunch," which focuses on dealing with badly behaved kids, something Koeppen understands well. She said that she feels embarrassed when her son misbehaves in public.

Unruly kids make good comedy for Frost, but for many people it's no laughing matter. Dan McCuley, who owns a café in Chicago, said that some kids were behaving terribly when they came in with their parents.

"The kids were kind of out of control and they weren't being supervised," he said.

McCuley put a sign on the door that warned: "Children of all ages have to behave and use their indoor voices."

"It's been very good for business. Since we put the sign up, business has increased 33 percent," he said.

Business is also up at some kid-free hotels such as SuperClubs Resort in Jamaica. In New York, Jodi Smith has created her own class, "manners for minors," which teaches parents how to end bratty behavior.

"Kids even as young as 1 1/2 and 2 understand the difference between when they can be silly and when they shouldn't be," Smith said.

Frost has her own cure for bratty kids.

"The solution is harnesses and leashes," she said.

For information on how to deal with misbehaved children go to MannerSmith.com.



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The issue of unruly children in restaurants was once quite large in my town. A woman dining with friends at one of the more exclusive restaurants had been disturbed by a small child that had been allowed to walk around the restaurant at will. The woman wrote a scathing letter to the local paper, stating that while the parents must have thought the child's antics were "cute," she and her friends had not. She suggested that the parents either get a babysitter or stay home with their cute child, because she had the right to enjoy her meal without the interference or distraction of this child's behavior. "Take your child to McDonald's," she wrote...

I completely agree...if your children aren't expected to behave in public places, leave them at home with a sitter or stay home with them.

Catherine

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:53 pm 
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What's more disturbing to me than the children's behavior is the parents'.

Working in a restaurant, I see way too many kids not ony being overly loud, but playing with loud clicking toys that not only annoy the servers but the customers as well (many leave the restaurant because of it), children running around the tables, running around the restaurant (unsupervised), continually nearly tripping servers and annoying customers. It's absolutely ridiculous how often I see the same thing happening.

Now I'm not going to try and pretend to know how hard it must be to control badly behaved children. But I will throw blame on the parents for not doing anything about it, especially when in a restaurant.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:21 pm 
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Have you ever approached the parents of those children and asked them to seat their kids and or control them?

When I am in a place of business and I am eating my lunch or dinner or what have you, I expect the people who run the place to control what goes on in there. I expect them to tell loud and rude customers that they need to be quite, I expect them to tell people with children to keep the kids quite and I expect them to move me to another table if I request it.

When I don't receive that service, the tip reflects it. I have left many pennies on the table.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:37 pm 
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DarkKnight2 wrote:
Have you ever approached the parents of those children and asked them to seat their kids and or control them?


Absolutely. When I was serving, I noticed this annoying banging and realized it was coming from a child sitting at a table. The child was simply banging a toy against the table, while the parents seemed completely oblivious. I approached them twice about this, with nothing being done to silence the child. My manager wanted to ignore the situation.
In situations where kids are running around the restaurant unsupervised though, is where it really tests my patience. On numerous occassions I've nearly tripped over kids, who sometimes seem to be trying to trip you, and yelled at them. I've grabbed them by their hands and told them to take me to their parents, where I've proceeded to bitch them out for being so reckless and uncaring.
There's only so much the workers can do though. It relies a lot on the managemnet.


DarkKnight wrote:
When I don't receive that service, the tip reflects it. I have left many pennies on the table.


I do hope you realize that when you do this, you're actually making the server pay to serve you. Servers have to tip out bartenders and bussers a certain percent of their sales each night, whether they recieved tips, and when they're not tipped appropriately, they're tipping out money that they never received.
I tip people depending on their service, but there's only so much you can hold them accountable for and withhold from them, when that's their source of income.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:22 am 
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I do hope you realize that when you do this, you're actually making the server pay to serve you. Servers have to tip out bartenders and bussers a certain percent of their sales each night, whether they recieved tips, and when they're not tipped appropriately, they're tipping out money that they never received.


That is not an entirely true statment. You tip out based on the amount of tips you made for the night. Not how much you want to tip out. In most place it is usually right around 5 % or so. So regardless if somebody tips you 30 or 40% of the bill or leaves you nothing you are still giving a percentage of your total tips.

I refuse to tip based on terrible service. If a waitress is not making enough money doing that, there are only two reasons. One she is a lousy waitress or two she is a lousy waitress.

I have date waitress's and seen them come home with 200 dollars in tips. It is hard work, and I would never want to do it.

But, now I have a question for you and it goes along with our other discussion about wages.

Would you rather be paid a straight hourly wage of 10 bucks a hour or the 2.30 a hour plus tips? You cannot have both. You have to choose one or the other.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:52 am 
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DarkKnight wrote:
You tip out based on the amount of tips you made for the night. Not how much you want to tip out. In most place it is usually right around 5 % or so. So regardless if somebody tips you 30 or 40% of the bill or leaves you nothing you are still giving a percentage of your total tips.


That's completely not true. A server tips out (usually 2% to a busser, 2% to a bartender) based on their sales, not the tips they make for the night. I served tables for the last four years, up until recently, and this is always how it's been. Tip out is based on sales, not tips.


DarkKnight wrote:
I refuse to tip based on terrible service. If a waitress is not making enough money doing that, there are only two reasons. One she is a lousy waitress or two she is a lousy waitress.


Oh I completely agree DK. I tip people according to their service, but will never stiff them. I also won't hold them responcible for things that are, in reality, out of their control.


DarkKnight wrote:
But, now I have a question for you and it goes along with our other discussion about wages.
Would you rather be paid a straight hourly wage of 10 bucks a hour or the 2.30 a hour plus tips? You cannot have both. You have to choose one or the other.


Well, when I was getting the crappy 2.13/hour plus tips, I would've made more if I had been getting paid 10/hour. So in that circumstance, I'd go by the flat rate.
Normally though, (minimum wage plus tips), I'd much rather go by that compared to the flat rate. Absolutely. No doubt about it.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:31 am 
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I have been out of the business for awhile, but, those that I know always told me that what the waitress gives out are based on their tips, not what the sales are.

It might have been different were you worked. I also think it depends maybe on were you are working. A place like Denny's or a place like Fridays were there is a bar.

It is a hard job. My wife did it for awhile in Tx, simply because she could not get hired in the field that she was trained in, which was automative.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:34 am 
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One thing that I've noticed in the more upscale restaurants is that the managers are coming out and actually making "rounds." They are dressed nicely...shirts and ties... and inquire softly at each table if the customers are enjoying their meals and if they are being served promptly and courteously. These restaurants offer quiet distractions for parties with children, such as boxes of crayons and coloring activities. They tend to seat those parties near each other while couples or groups of adults are often seated in other areas of the establishment. The prices in these types of restaurants are prohibitive to families with kids and I'm finding myself more inclined to go to them rather than to cheaper restaurants if I'm seeking an evening of good food, good wine, and relaxation.

Something that is often more annoying to me than unruly children in a restaurant are other customers who talk or laugh incessantly in loud, irritating voices. Adults can be just as rude as children when they want to be.

It's not a perfect world, but as I get older, I find myself indulging my preferences when I'm planning to eat out. I'd rather pay a higher price and not only get better food and better service, but also get the enjoyment and healthy benefits of having a relaxing evening in the company of those with whom I wish to spend my time. If I can't do that, I'd just as soon stay home.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:29 pm 
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I am normally an easy going person but when I am out dining with other adults and they seat kids next to me I will ask to be moved if the kids are loud and unruly. I spend 40+ hours a week with other people's kids and I want my meals to be pleasant and enjoyable.

Now take all those unruly kids and put them in a classroom. They have no respect for adults, each other, nor themselves. They refuse to do work. They refuse to show up for detentions. It is a nightmare. I am having a horrible year. If I could afford to quit I would be writing my resignation right now.

I am glad to see businesses starting to curtail the problem. Maybe parents will take the hint and they will begin to do something about it at home. They certainly don't believe me when I call home to report bad behavior. If the kid says he didn't do then he didn't and I am a liar.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 8:22 am 
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all kids, like family pets, are brats.

the owners just don't see them as others do. i used to tell my boys that if they carried on (in a store or any public place) i would pull their pants down in front of everyone and spank the living daylights out of them)...lol the thought of being publicly humiliated was a nice deterent to some little whining brat.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:44 pm 
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all kids, like family pets, are brats.


I don't agree with that. I have friends who have pets who DO NOT jump up on you and they are very nice pets and a joy to be around. I also have friends and family who have kids who go play and leave the adults alone.

On the other hand I have friends and family who have no clue what a bother their pets and kids are. You cannot have a minutes peace while visiting them. Their brats are constantly in their face wanting something, whining, fighting with each other. You can't hear yourself think, let alone carry on a conversation. Their pets are jumping on you, chewing your pant leg, wanting out, wanting in, wanting out, wanting in. Jeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzz.

I owned a great dane. She and I went to obedience school. She knew her place and she NEVER bothered anyone. If she was told to stay in the kitchen or outside, she obeyed.

People don't know how to teach their kids to be quiet, be nice, get along, stay seated, chew with their mouth shut, ask first, etc. Some think their kids can do no wrong. Everything is someone else's fault. Same with thier pets.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:54 pm 
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all kids, like family pets, are brats.



I think he was joking around, but somewhat seriously..if that makes sense.

However...
I agree that all kids are brats.
All family pets are not brats though.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 10:55 pm 
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I take great offense to the statement that all children are brats and I am really surprised to hear a teacher say such a thing. Children are actually people; try not to forget that. I will agree that there are tons of children with problems, but this is to be lain at their parent's feet. A child is not born bad (nor a brat), parents create them. My son is not perfect, but he's five years old, and he's learning. I set a good example and he's a nice little person. I would never, ever, under and circumstances expect him to "be quiet" just because adults are around or to go off to him room because they are around. I do teach him to listen and wait until their is a pause to break into conversations, but that is my teaching him to be polite, not to be little robot. Obviously there are situations where children shouldn't be included because its not age appropriate, otherwise, I think its quite archaic to expect children to stay silently in their rooms and not bother the adults. I cannot speak for any child other than my own, but he's an interesting, thoughtful and kind little guy and I would never punish him by excluding him from the treat of having company over.

Both adults and children can exhibit bad behavior, but believe me, more often than not, the memorable moments of bad behavior I have witnessed have been mostly perpetrated by adults, not children.

And Sadie, please don't think I was singling you out. I am equally disappointed with everyone who voiced the belief that all children are brats.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 11:40 pm 
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I agree that all kids are brats.


I completely disagree with that statement. The child is molded more by his environment and by the expectations of those adults with whom he spends his first formative years than he is from any other influential aspect in his life. Children repeat what they see and hear..they are very good at learning those lessons taught by their parents, whether the lessons are good or bad.

lefty is on the right track.

If a parent allows himself to be a doormat, that's what his kids will make of him. If a parent wants to be a dictator, that's what his kids will see him as being and they will rebel eventually, in one form or another. If a parent wants to be an active parent, sitting boundaries and expecting his child to be free within those boundaries, then that's what the child will do. Sitting a good example requires committment, effort, and consistency. Perhaps for most parents, it's the consistency that is the most difficult to maintain.

But, if a parent doesn't set a good example for his or her child, that parent has nobody but himself or herself to blame when the kid turns out bad.

My own stepson could've followed the example of his mother...lazing about, making nothing of herself, sitting no expectations for him. When he was in the home his father and I made after our marriage, things were opposite. We set boundaries for him. We expected him to maintain good grades, to obey his teachers, to practice good table manners, to tell the truth, and to believe in himself. He's 24 now, in the Coast Guard, and intends to make it his career. He told me on the day of his graduation from Coast Guard basic training that if it hadn't been for the expectations his dad and I had set for him, he would never have gotten away from his mother and her way of life.

Sadie, one of the best things I ever did for myself and for my students was to put into practice the teaching methods of Dr. Harry Wong, one of the foremost educators of our time. They might help you have a better year. If you've not read his book The First Days of School or seen his videos that are available for inservice training, please do so asap.

http://www.lecturemanagement.com/speake ... _harry.htm

http://teachers.net/wong/

There might be a set of the videos at your central office or wherever professional materials are kept. Check with the person who is in charge of professional development within your school system. Those videos are worth their price, and so is the book. Dr. Wong's book is also available from online bookstores, new and used. I gave my daughter a copy when she began teaching high school English. Now, four years into her career, she tells me she refers to it almost everyday.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 11:55 pm 
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Everyone, chill.

Kids are brats.
Adults are brats.
Animals are brats.

Everyone is sometimes, and not others.

I doubt anyone here really believes that the only thing a child, adult, or animal can be anytime, though, is a brat.

Come on now.

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