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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 5:41 pm 
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jobot wrote:

What did I say that was absurd?
Sorry, when i said "pass off" I mean when you ignore, dispute, laugh at other peoples ideas which are absurd.



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If something is an absurd fact, you can get called on it, because it can be proven false. If an opinion is absurd, well, then that's a difference of opinion between two people.

I'm not sure if you're asking me a general question or asking me about caring if I offened somebody specific.

Should we care if we offend people if the facts we present are contrary to their beliefs/ideals? Hope that clears it up!

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 5:56 pm 
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nygreenguy wrote:
Should we care if we offend people if the facts we present are contrary to their beliefs/ideals? Hope that clears it up!


Well, I don't.
If I walked around caring about whether or not I offend people who believe differently than me, I'd be walking on eggshells for my entire life. Not something that I'm willing to commit to.


...plus, if I'm presenting facts and no facts are countering mine, not really much to be getting upset about now, is there? If I'm presenting a fact which is contrary to their beliefs, well...I think that says it all.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:44 pm 
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No, I can list a ton of facts about religion. I can factually say the earth wasnt created in six days. I can factually say that the great flood never happened, etc...


Well, since this thread has been taken in a entirely new direction let's talk about that.

NY, the first part would be that we were agreeing on the day being 24 hours long as it is now. But, I could be wrong, there is no mention in the Bible of how long a day was to them. It could be a thousand years or six months. So I would say your statment has a partial truth to it.

The second statement is also open to discussion. there is evidence that a great flood did happen around the time that Noah was suppose to have built the Ark. Controversy exist as to whether the ark is on Mount Ararat in Eastern Turkey on the borders of Iran. There has been several attempts to locate it.

So with your second statement I would say you were probably correct, but, there is still a slight chance that you could be wrong.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:01 pm 
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DarkKnight2 wrote:

NY, the first part would be that we were agreeing on the day being 24 hours long as it is now. But, I could be wrong, there is no mention in the Bible of how long a day was to them. It could be a thousand years or six months. So I would say your statment has a partial truth to it.
True, but many believe it was 6-24hour periods.

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The second statement is also open to discussion. there is evidence that a great flood did happen around the time that Noah was suppose to have built the Ark. Controversy exist as to whether the ark is on Mount Ararat in Eastern Turkey on the borders of Iran. There has been several attempts to locate it.
As for the geology of the middle east, im not sure. But as for a global flood, as many believe, never happened.

There are possibilties to anything. Elves could be controlling me, I cant prove its not true, so it remains a possibility. But is it one we should even consider? This logic should apply to religion as well.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:17 pm 
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But is it one we should even consider


I'm willing to give it a shot if you are. :wink:


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 12:06 am 
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DarkKnight2 wrote:
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But is it one we should even consider


I'm willing to give it a shot if you are. :wink:


haha, no, i just cant. I cant give a shread of consideration to something for which I can find no evidence.
I found a quote not too long ago that made me think.

"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. "

Now, why is christianity right, but not paganism?
Why is Islam right but not Hinduism?

What makes one religion more credible than another?

Well, from what Ive seen, many base this on the authority of the objective. We have relics, holy books, ect... And from a historical standpoint, most of the objective items historically, conflict with what the religions say about them. So if the only objective means that one can judge religion by is not credible, whats left? To me it seems to be whatever one was raised as, or what makes one the most comfortable.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 1:30 am 
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Now, why is christianity right, but not paganism?
Why is Islam right but not Hinduism?

What makes one religion more credible than another?


see but you are putting me into that catagory and I am not. I cannot justify one religion over another. That is why I no longer practice organized religion. I worship in my own way.

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To me it seems to be whatever one was raised as, or what makes one the most comfortable


Your exactly right and I have many arguements with those who think their religion is the only right one. I counter with what about those people who live in the rain forest and still worship a surpreme being, just not the one you do. They of course say that I am a atheist or simply a non believer. :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 12:24 pm 
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DarkKnight2 wrote:
Your exactly right and I have many arguements with those who think their religion is the only right one.



You may not be a part of an organized religion, but you do believe in the god you worship. You worship your god, your way, because you believe it to be true. So, how could you possibly believe that what anybody else worships as god, or people who don't believe in god, to be right? It's not possible. You may accept that they have different beliefs than you, but you can't possibly think that somebody worshiping different than you (or not worshipping) can be right.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 1:45 pm 
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Religion should have no rules. If it has to dictate authority it should be ignored as vile and pointless. The spirit of humanity dictates we are free to choose and so our spirituality should be free as well. If one is capable of believing the story that has been presented as reality, then one shouldn't have to be confined by the limitations of false belief. The religion that has been thrust upon us is base and evil in its interpretation of human morals and ethics. It teaches one to submit their will to forces that are designed to oppress and control. It tells us its interpretation of what we should be!

In the sociology field, one is encouraged to remove any religious teachings with the client as it only serves to subjugate the person and adds to their depression and servility. Making one accept their fate as god given and praying for relief, is merely placating our time here and satisfying our nihilistic intuition. By not actually informing people of the true nature of their oppression, we are merely putting a comforter over them; a false hope that will help them cope with the depths of despair that systemic oppression puts on our lives. Not to mention the idea that even our worries about death are catered to.

This is why we retreat into our illusion. It is our comfort zone that can explain all our fears and evils, both internally and externally. When reality is a dream within a dream, the sleepwalkers can pretend they are right in what they think and do, or by just imagining and praying enough they can make it better.

It is to laugh at, except that what we see as the real world, is fucked up royally by it. If gods need rules then we need rules for gods too. If gods can't stand up to real analysis and scrutiny, then they don't exist outside of the mind of humans. It serves us to make rules for them so we can act civilized, but if gods aren't civil and consistent then we shouldn't have to follow rules made up by men to serve their gods. Sorry, but open discussion means no holds barred. If religions can't take the heat, they should join the scrapheap of historys "great-but-not-so successful" ideas. Man must evolve from his own self imposed chains and free himself of the false rules of religion. Religion should stay out of the question of human sex and ethics and concentrate on checks and balances of the spirit. The human domain is the concern of the people the spirit is what balances the mind. If you put decisionmaking in the heart, you lose reality and gain emotional disconnect. If this is balance, then we can see how torn our physical/psychical identity has become.

Know thyself,Socrates said, but if you aren't permitted to find that person, you have missed the purpose and meaning of your life. If a false belief in a phoney god can appease that, then all i can say is that you are seriously confused and lack real purpose and meaning. it is easier to hide behind ones fears than to face them on their own. Belief in gods is the belief in fear.

Just saying you practice your own religion and beliefs is somehow going to placate your stance? That's what apologists do. They say things like"I don't believe like HIM, I got the real belief." As if that were possible.

You are part of a mythology that has been developed with your mind in mind- this is why it works and makes sense to you. But if you could come up with a belief that is safe and free from instruction, based in real things around you, you could replace your external fears with internal peace and serenity. We are allowed to get upset and state our feelings, we just don't have to always believe that they are somehow guided by unseen forces. Eliminate the fluff and get down to the brass tacks. Nature is real and you can be afraid of it as well as enjoy it. It makes a better god than some pie in the sky. Put your love and energy into the planet and get back real results. And when you die, it will accept you for eternity. No more pretend games, with pretend deities- all is peace within. And the more you stress the peace within part, the more you'll see wars disappear, for instead of greed and hatred, you are filled with caring and sharing. Suddenly war looks like the childish infantile game that gods play, but is no part of human morals and ethics. Impeach our gods and replace them with something real and lets get with the peace and love thing. The more people who see the truth and realize that you cannot win peace with war and you can't bomb the world into peace- but you can bomb the world into pieces- then the sooner we can get on with our existence, instead of our Armageddon.

This site has always been open to the truth. Since gods and their representatives profess to be "THE TRUTH", that makes gods targets too.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 1:49 pm 
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uumm yeah, what they said.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 2:20 pm 
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Bravo, Do.g!!!!! I could have never said that better. I feel like I should print that up and pass it out to a ton of people I know. 8)


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 3:43 pm 
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DO.g, what do you do for a living? ...have you ever done professional writing?
...Everything you write is always so well said.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 6:25 pm 
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So those that believe in Heaven and a God are suppose to say. Oh I can't do that because these people say there is no God?

You can keep not believing and those of us that do will keep on doing so. But, I am getting really tired of hearing I am stupid of believe in a myth or whatever. What matters to you what I believe in?

I don't care if you don't believe. Have no desire to attempt to change you. Don't want to change you. But I respect your belief and would never think of telling you that you are wrong, or you are going to hell, or any of the other thousand things that I could say. What you do is not my business.

Just as what I do is none of yours. My beliefs are simply my beliefs. I don't have to explain them to you, justify how I feel or why I believe.

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Religion should have no rules


If you don't believe why do you care what the rules are for any religion? It does not effect you. You live your lift to your own rules.

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It is our comfort zone that can explain all our fears and evils


what is wrong with that? Would your rather have somebody use drugs, alcohol, violence, or any number of other things that are out there? I would much rather they fine a place to pray then be doing drugs or drinking themselves to death.

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Religion should stay out of the question of human sex and ethics and concentrate on checks and balances of the spirit.


If you do not belong to a church or a religion why does it matter what they require their members to do? They are the ones that are agreeing to it. If they were not then I guess they would not belong to the religion they do.

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"THE TRUTH", that makes gods targets too.


and that could very well be the reason there are only about 15 people that post here instead of the hundreds that belong. You have to feel that you are welcome to become a member of a forum and to post and I get the feeling that those that believe or think differently are not really welcome here at all.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 7:16 pm 
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DarkKnight2 wrote:
But, I am getting really tired of hearing I am stupid of believe in a myth or whatever.


No one's calling you stupid DK...we're just saying we're right! :lol: ...just like you're saying you're right, whether that's exactly what you say or not. ...Which brings me back to my second to last post in this thread... Care to take that one on?
Also, I don't agree with saying that believing in god is a myth either. It's a belief. It's a belief which has no proof...which is why I think some are saying myth. But I agree with you on that..I don't agree that it be called a myth.


DarkKnight wrote:
and that could very well be the reason there are only about 15 people that post here instead of the hundreds that belong. I get the feeling that those that believe or think differently are not really welcome here at all.


Well, DK, I don't exactly feel comfortable with some Christians here telling me I'm going to hell because I'm not a part of their religion. ...I'm 100% comfortable with my knowing the truth, so their opinions don't bother me enough not to post. I wouldn't go around posting in a Christian forum though...too much crap. :|
...I believe that there are other reasons why there aren't more people posting here.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:19 pm 
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Just as what I do is none of yours. My beliefs are simply my beliefs. I don't have to explain them to you, justify how I feel or why I believe.
actually, you do. You make a claim that god exists. And from that we can conclude that you believe for a reason. A justified reason. And if you fail to justify the claim you make, it makes us doubt the credibility of your claim.

If you dont want us challenging your beliefs, dont talk about them. But the second you lay them out there in the battle field of ideas, dont get angry if they get trampled.

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If you do not belong to a church or a religion why does it matter what they require their members to do?
Firstly, is it wrong to want the best for others?

Secondly, what religions do, effect me. Look at their influence in american politics. Thats reason enough to care.

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You have to feel that you are welcome to become a member of a forum and to post and I get the feeling that those that believe or think differently are not really welcome here at all.
What about republicans and conservative, would we want them to feel welcome here? Wouldnt we be expected to challenge their ideas as well? What gives religion an exemption? If they dont like religion being bashed, then they shouldnt talk about it. But like I said before, if you wanna say god exists, then I have the right, and responsibility, to challenge that.

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