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Is Hitting Okay?
Hitting is okay. 20%  20%  [ 1 ]
Hitting is NOT okay. 80%  80%  [ 4 ]
Total votes : 5
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:40 pm 
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I am concerned about the ramifications of passing Senate File 74. How can any type of bruising be considered okay? For that matter, how can corporal punishment be considered reasonable? We have laws which protect adult victims (women/men/prisoners) from any type of violent acts (whether verbal or physical), but it is okay to promote violence against children. Violence is violence. A victim is a victim. A child feels pain no differently than an adult and should be offered the same protections. There is no difference in a child being "corporally punished" than in a husband "beating his wife into submission" or an employer "hitting an employee for being late" or a slaveowner "whipping his slaves for disobedience". Would you allow a nursing home to "beat your grandmother for incontinence as long as it involved only minor bruising?" Think smart - and think for our future. Children need the same protections we all take for granted.


http://www.nospank.net/melvin.htm

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:03 pm 
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Jobot and lefty how many kids do you each have?

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:11 pm 
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I don't need kids to know that hitting them is wrong, whether it's for punishment or not.

"We have laws which protect adult victims (women/men/prisoners) from any type of violent acts (whether verbal or physical), but it is okay to promote violence against children."

Violence IS violence. Period.


Do you deny that hitting you kid's butt is not only an act of violence, but also an act of sexual assault? ...Your butt is a personal, sexual, part of your body. It's degrading and humiliating to be hit there.


...Ok, ok...so let's just PRETEND for a minute that the way you hit your kids is reasonable, and that the way some teachers would hit children would be reasonable. LET'S JUST PRETEND.
Now, can you honestly say that teachers wouldn't take that power and abuse it? They wouldn't be hitting kids too hard or too often? ..Are welts on your butt acceptable? Is having your pants be pulled down in front of others accaptable?

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:23 pm 
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I am done defending my position with someone who doesn't have kids. Come back and talk when you do. You need to learn the difference between hitting and spanking.

I love it when childless people try to tell those with kids how to raise them. OK it is wrong in your book. Fine. We will see how you handle your own kids.

I loved my kids far too much to allow them to be brats that no one could stand to be around. I wanted them to grow up knowing right from wrong, to respect adults, to follow the laws and I don't regret anything I did to teach values. If you know a better way Dr. Spock you better get to writing that new updated book. People did believe Dr. Spock too, and we have a mess on our hands.

Just ask anyone who works with kids. Ask a cop, a teacher, a doctor, a librarian, or anyone else who comes in contact with kids everyday.

I asked 14 people today if they ever spanked their kids. Granted, 6 of them were teachers. 100% said yes and they would do it again.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:27 pm 
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sadie53 wrote:
I am done defending my position with someone who doesn't have kids. Come back and talk when you do. You need to learn the difference between hitting and spanking.
I love it when childless people try to tell those with kids how to raise them. OK it is wrong in your book. Fine. We will see how you handle your own kids.



You're right, I don't have kids. I understand violence, though.

You asked me if I'd ever potty trained a dog, and smacked it with a newspaper as punishment.
I said no.
Guess my personal experience on a topic you brought up means shit.

Interesting.







Violence begets violence.

As time has passed, more people have been given more rights, which has caused them to stand up for themselves more.
A paddle wouldn't solve shit. In the age we live in, hitting a kid with a paddle enough would probably just lead to a teacher being found shot in the head behind the school.

Violence begets violence.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:48 pm 
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Sadie
There's quite a few questions asked that you completely ignored.

Quote:
can you honestly say that teachers wouldn't take that power and abuse it? They wouldn't be hitting kids too hard or too often? ..Are welts on your butt acceptable? Is having your pants be pulled down in front of others accaptable?


Quote:
Do you deny that hitting you kid's butt is not only an act of violence, but also an act of sexual assault? ...Your butt is a personal, sexual, part of your body. It's degrading and humiliating to be hit there.


Quote:
WHY hit your kid? Perhaps the reason it feels bad, it because you know it is wrong. I just dont see how it works, and if anyone claims it does work, is it possible to prove its the spanking that caused the good behavior?



You said, "Bending a child over your lap and smacking their behind does not fall in the same catagory as hitting. Using a belt, or some utensil is abuse."
...Would that include a paddle?


Can you answer any of those?..or did you skip them for a reason.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:00 pm 
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sadie53 wrote:
I am done defending my position with someone who doesn't have kids. Come back and talk when you do.



What do you say NYG? :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 2:08 pm 
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jobot wrote:
sadie53 wrote:
I am done defending my position with someone who doesn't have kids. Come back and talk when you do.



What do you say NYG? :lol:


Well, I almost forgot, we all were not kids at one time. I would figure that experience would trump that of being a parent.

You talk about the difference between "discipline" and "abuse"

This reminds me, some people see the death penalty as "justice", i see it as "murder"


The problem here is perception. You may see it as discipline, but how does the kid see it?

Quote:
Just ask anyone who works with kids. Ask a cop, a teacher, a doctor, a librarian, or anyone else who comes in contact with kids everyday.

I asked 14 people today if they ever spanked their kids. Granted, 6 of them were teachers. 100% said yes and they would do it again.


Appeal to authority. Just because these people do it, still doesnt make it right. Constant contact with kids doesnt make one an expert on child behavior.

So, what do the experts say?

Here is what an American Psychological Society study said:
Quote:
WASHINGTON -- Corporal punishment remains a widely used discipline technique in most American families, but it has also been a subject of controversy within the child development and psychological communities. In a large-scale meta-analysis of 88 studies, psychologist Elizabeth Thompson Gershoff, PhD, of the National Center for Children in Poverty at Columbia University, looked at both positive and negative behaviors in children that were associated with corporal punishment. Her research and commentaries on her work are published in the July issue of Psychological Bulletin, published by the American Psychological Association....

Gershoff found "strong associations" between corporal punishment and all eleven child behaviors and experiences. Ten of the associations were negative such as with increased child aggression and antisocial behavior. The single desirable association was between corporal punishment and increased immediate compliance on the part of the child.

The two largest effect sizes (strongest associations) were immediate compliance by the child and physical abuse of the child by the parent. Gershoff believes that these two strongest associations model the complexity of the debate around corporal punishment.

"That these two disparate constructs should show the strongest links to corporal punishment underlines the controversy over this practice. There is general consensus that corporal punishment is effective in getting children to comply immediately while at the same time there is caution from child abuse researchers that corporal punishment by its nature can escalate into physical maltreatment," Gershoff writes....

While the nature of the analyses prohibits causally linking corporal punishment with the child behaviors, Gershoff also summarizes a large body of literature on parenting that suggests why corporal punishment may actually cause negative outcomes for children. For one, corporal punishment on its own does not teach children right from wrong. Secondly, although it makes children afraid to disobey when parents are present, when parents are not present to administer the punishment those same children will misbehave.

In commentary published along with the Gershoff study, George W. Holden, PhD, of the University of Texas at Austin, writes that Gershoff's findings "reflect the growing body of evidence indicating that corporal punishment does no good and may even cause harm." Holden submits that the psychological community should not be advocating spanking as a discipline tool for parents....

http://www.apa.org/journals/bul/july02-release.html

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