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Should corporal punishment be put back in public schools?
Yes 38%  38%  [ 5 ]
No 62%  62%  [ 8 ]
Total votes : 13
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:30 pm 
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lefty wrote:
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I was taught education was important. More=so for the male gender because they were expected to be the bread earners.


I also thought that was a distrurbing sentence that could probably use its own thread.


Why? Back in the olde days, women stayed at home and took care of the children, cooked and cleaned house, they didn't NEED to be educated... but the men, as the ones bringing home the bacon, did... :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Corporal Punishment
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:36 pm 
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jobot wrote:
"Spare the rod, spoil the child" ? ..That was an answer to what question I asked exactly Dee?



dee35ann wrote:
To me you come across as a very bitter young lady. You appear to choose expressed comments on several topics to shred and make some individuals out to be stupid imbeciles. Do you realize you take some out of context?
My opinion is you are very bitter about how you've been treated in the past and you try to strike out at anyone who does not fit into your way of thinking. You seek alliance for a gang bash against anyone or any issue that strikes your fancy
But more important - let go of your past. The past is stairsteps to our future, but if we can be honest with ourselves - we can choose to make changes. We control our destiny - good or bad.



Don't begin to cast your personal opinion of who I am on to me. Do you really think that you know me better than I know myself? You don't know anything about me, so don't pretend to.


She can by the tone and content of your posts... and guess what, jobot... I see it too...

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:45 pm 
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DarkKnight2 wrote:
I also think she told it the way it was. I remember EVERY day coming home to a sandwich and a glass of milk. We ate supper at the table as a family.

When my dad said something you did it or you suffered. He drove truck for almost 30 years, not the super trucks they have now, but, the old ones, with no air, seats that bounced you all over hell.


Quote:
And women fear physical abuse and rape from their husbands because it was still legal.


As far as I know that was never legal. Please show us where you got this information from? You continue to make statements without proof.


I hear you DK, my daddy was a career military man and what he said was law... too bad more children these days don't have fathers like we had...

There are far too many spoiled rotten brats getting whatever the hell they want without having to do ANY work for it... I drove by the filled student parking lot of a local high school the other day and remarked to my wife... damn... when I went to high school, TWO kids had cars... now they ALL do...

and those cars weren't beaters... heavens no... they were BRAND NEW. BMWs... Vettes... Camaros... Civics... name it and they were there...


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 Post subject: Re: Life in depression era
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:49 pm 
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dee35ann wrote:
Thank you Catherine and DarkKnight for remembering a few things from the past.

My mother raised two crops a season. We had ice boxes - no freezers. Everything was canned. My father built us a smokehouse so mom could cure beef and pork. Does anyone ever have a big slab of salt cured ham for breakfast anymore? If people around town were told of mom canning so much - I can remember they had to see for themselves, and she always shared canned goods with any neighbor or friend or stranger in need of some help. She never expected anything in return for her generosity. She cooked three meals a day and we always ate every meal at the kitchen table. As school children we came home for lunch or brown bagged it. No cafeteria's in schools back then.

I was 6 years old when my mother got her first Maytag wringer
electric washer. Before that she washed clothes for nine people on the back porch on a wash board. Everything was cotton, starched, dried on the line in the sun, taken in dampened again and ironed. No such thing as wash and wear like today. No one in our family ever went around in dirty unkept clothes, nor did we ever go hungry.

When I was really old enough to appreciate all my parents done for me and all my brothers and sister - I had a hard time understanding how they managed to do so much in 24 hour increments. Compared to the older generation I know - I am a lazy person.

I am very thankful for every lesson they taught me and for all the help they gave me and my family.

One very important lesson I have always tried to live by - You are worth no more or no less than your word. Think first - then if you say it - mean it.

One fact I have lived with - I borrow very little - but every penny I ever borrowed from my parents was always payed back in full. When my parents passed away and I was appointed the executrix of their meager estate - I was shocked at all the IOU"s my parents had people sign for loans they had given them. I borrowed from them and was never asked to sign a note.

Life was hard in those days but mostly happy. In my twilight years I realize just how much we live in the past and I have been told we should live our life so that when we relive it - it should be with the happy feeling of a job well done. So very true.

I really did enjoy my childhood and I was never taught to hate - despise or try to hurt anyone because they were of a different color - religion or race - or different from me.

If a male ever abused a female, there were men who would challenge the abuser to stand up to a man. If a son was the abuser the father taught him better. If a daughter was abused the male had better run because the father again would settle the dispute.

By today's standards anyone trying to help anyone may be sued for their
efforts.

Bring back a lot of the good old days.


Amen, Dee... Amen...

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:52 pm 
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jobot wrote:
TheStripey1 wrote:
They do? Where? Got proof? Or are you just blowing smoke?


There's plenty of info available on the internet that talks about both teachers and principals administering punishment, including the link that lefty provided.


Then go out and find it yourself and bring it in. I'm not going to search for proof of YOUR arguement.

And obtw, I say that not as a fellow poster but as the moderator of this forum.

You made a claim. Back it up.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:54 pm 
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Catherine wrote:
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Purrsonally, I'd hold the parents responsible. Fine them if their "evil spawn" can't behave. Cane them. Send them to jail for the week end or longer. I guarantee the child would no longer be a disciplinary problem
.

There was a kid at one of the schools in my area who was a serious disciplinary problem. He'd moved to the area from Florida, and enrolled in the fifth or sixth grade..forget which. But the parents told the administration that their child was not to be paddled regardless of his offense. (Now, understand that a paddling in NC schools isn't given routinely, even by the admins...it is always as a last resort and never given if parents have stated their child is not to be paddled.)

The principal called the parents everytime the kid was sent to the office, and that was quite often. They had to come to the school, leaving their jobs, which was not a good thing to do at all. The principal explained to them that, if they did not respond when he called, he'd call Social Services and report their child as being both abandoned and neglected. Whether or not he would've carried out the threat, or even if he could've, I do not know. He was a firecracker of a principal, so he probably didn't care.

Eventually, one of the parents was fired due to excessive absenses because of having to go to the school so much, and they moved away....probably to harrass some other school.

I wonder where that child is today..probably in jail.


I like it... I like it alot... sounds like I would have liked your old principal... :lol:

and yes... the brat is probably in jail...

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Last edited by TheStripey1 on Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:08 pm 
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TheStripey1 wrote:
Then go out and find it yourself and bring it in. I'm not going to search for proof of YOUR arguement.
And obtw, I say that not as a fellow poster but as the moderator of this forum.
You made a claim. Back it up.


There's plenty of info available on the internet that talks about both teachers and principals administering punishment, including the link that lefty provided.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:17 pm 
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jobot wrote:
TheStripey1 wrote:
Then go out and find it yourself and bring it in. I'm not going to search for proof of YOUR arguement.
And obtw, I say that not as a fellow poster but as the moderator of this forum.
You made a claim. Back it up.


There's plenty of info available on the internet that talks about both teachers and principals administering punishment, including the link that lefty provided.


Are you trying to push my buttons too, jobot? It ain't going to work.

cuz I have the delete button and you don't...

Go get your own proof. I'm NOT going to ask you again. You made the claim. You provide the proof. Unless of course you aren't smart enough to do a web search... if that's the case, just say so and we'll cut you the slack you THINK you deserve.

:evil:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 9:37 pm 
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Think kids don't need a spanking now and then.

My wife works in a video store. Woman outside yelling at her son. Put on your jacket it is cold out. No I don't have to. Put it on. OK. In the store no you cannot have that video game put it back. At the counter. I told you to put that video game back. I guess I didn't do that. It is to mature for you. To damn bad, now get it for me.

This is from a 8 year boy.


My daughter,cashing a woman out with her daughter. Mommy can I have a candy bar. No, MOMMY can I have a candy bar? No you can't.

MOMMY I WANT A DAMN CANDY BAR, NOW BUY IT FOR ME.

woman bought the candy bar.

Not in my house they wouldn't


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 9:41 pm 
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Quote:
Arguments Against Corporal Punishment

1. It perpetuates a cycle of child abuse. It teaches children to hit someone smaller and weaker when angry.
2. Injuries occur. Bruises are common. Broken bones are not unusual. Children's deaths have occurred in the U.S. due to school corporal punishment.
3. Corporal punishment is used much more often on poor children, minorities, children with disabilities, and boys.
4. Schools are the only institutions in America in which striking another person is legally sanctioned. It is not allowed in prisons, in the military or in mental hospitals.
5. Educators and school boards are sometimes sued when corporal punishment is used in their schools.
6. Schools that use corporal punishment often have poorer academic achievement, more vandalism, truancy, pupil violence and higher drop out rates.
7. Corporal punishment is often not used as a last resort. It is often the first resort for minor misbehaviors.
8. Many alternatives to corporal punishment have proven their worth. Alternatives teach children to be self-disciplined rather than cooperative only because of fear.


Alternatives to corporal punishment include emphasizing positive behaviors of students, realistic rules consistently enforced, instruction that reaches all students, conferences with students for planning acceptable behavior, parent/teacher conferences about student behavior, use of staff such as school psychologists and counselors, detentions, in-school suspension and Saturday school.


http://www.stophitting.com/disatschool/facts.php



Ingraham v Wright
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MR. JUSTICE WHITE, with whom MR. JUSTICE BRENNAN, MR. JUSTICE MARSHALL, and MR. JUSTICE STEVENS join, dissenting.

Today the Court holds that corporal punishment in public schools, no matter how severe, can never be the subject of the protections afforded by the Eighth Amendment. It also holds that students in the public school systems are not constitutionally entitled to a hearing of any sort before beatings can be inflicted on them. Because I believe that these holdings are inconsistent with the prior decisions of this Court and are contrary to a reasoned analysis of the constitutional provisions involved, I respectfully dissent. ...

The Eighth Amendment places a flat prohibition against the infliction of "cruel and unusual punishments." This reflects a societal judgment that there are some punishments that are so barbaric and inhumane that we will not permit them to be imposed on anyone, no matter how opprobrious the offense. See Robinson v. California, 370 U. S. 660, 676 ( 1962) (Douglas, J., concurring). If there are some punishments that are so barbaric that they may not be imposed for the commission of crimes, designated by our social system as the most thoroughly reprehensible acts an individual can commit, then, a fortiori ,similar punishments may not be imposed on persons for less culpable acts, such as breaches of school discipline. Thus, if it is constitutionally impermissible to cut off someone's ear for the commission of murder, it must be unconstitutional to cut off a child's ear for being late to class. 1 Although there were no ears cut off in this case, the record reveals beatings so severe that if they were inflicted on a hardened criminal for the commission of a serious crime, they might not pass constitutional muster.

Nevertheless, the majority holds that the Eighth Amendment "was designed to protect [only] those convicted of crimes," ante, at 664, relying on a vague and inconclusive recitation of the history of the Amendment. Yet the constitutional prohibition is against cruel and unusual punishments; nowhere is that prohibition limited or modified by the language of the Constitution. Certainly, the fact that the Framers did not choose to insert the word "criminal" into the language of the Eighth Amendment is strong evidence that the Amendment was designed to prohibit all inhumane or barbaric punishments, no matter what the nature of the offense for which the punishment is imposed.

No one can deny that spanking of schoolchildren is "punishment" under any reasonable reading of the word, for the similarities between spanking in public schools and other forms of punishment are too obvious to ignore. Like other forms of punishment, spanking of schoolchildren involves an institutionalized response to the violation of some official rule or regulation proscribing certain conduct and is imposed for the purpose of rehabilitating the offender, deterring the offender and others like him from committing the violation in the future, and inflicting some measure of social retribution for the harm that has been done....


Follow this link for more of the dissenting opinion on the constitutionality of corporal punishment in schools. [/quote][/b]

Click here for link


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:12 pm 
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stripey wrote:
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Did the district charge the parent for the destroyed property? Did you press charges against the kid for stealing?


They are pressing charges against the parents, but that is still pending. We have cameras in the hall and they have him on film going into the bathroom and coming out. No one else did in a pretty long period of time so they pretty much have him - but if the parents get a good lawyer the district may have a hard time making it stick.


stripey wrote:
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Have you ever considered switching to teaching college kids? cuz THEY all want to learn...


Yes I have but in order to be full time at a college you must have your PHD and I am 53 years old and just now working on my masters. Plus it would be a HUGE cut in pay for about 5 years. I couldn't plan for my retirement if I took such a cut in pay. I am paying BIG into a seperate retirement account so I don't have to teach until I am 66 years old. That is how long I have to teach in order to get 30 years in. I was a stay at home mom so I got a late start.

The cut in pay is looking better and better. It is better than winding up dead at an earlier age from major stress.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:47 am 
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Have you ever considered switching to teaching college kids? cuz THEY all want to learn...


I thought they went to school to party and study when on break. LOL


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:12 am 
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Stripey said: Yes... but discipline should take place at home not in the class room. If the children are unruly, punish the parents... and no, I haven't fully thought that out as to how...


I said it before and I say it still--these children are the products of neglect. Charge the parents with neglect and if they don't respond by doing a better job raising their children, put the children where someone will care enough about them to do that job.

Children who grow up believing the world owes them turn into thugs. Better to get them socialized early then to have to jail them in the future.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:26 pm 
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Stripey you mentioning the cars in the parking lot reminded me of a kid who used to work for me. His parents were really wealthy but he wanted to work while in high school. He graducated while working for me and his dad bought him a new BMW for graduation.

One day he came to work driving a old beat up car. I asked him where the BMW was and he said.

"I told my dad, to keep it, I wanted to work for what I had and all I can afford is this car."

I was so impressed that a 18 year old said that. I am sure that his parents were very proud of him.

I hope that he is doing well and I also hope there are more out there like him. Oh, he was a very hard worker, did anything he was told to do, never late and never called in sick while I was there.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:47 pm 
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sadie53 wrote:
stripey wrote:
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Did the district charge the parent for the destroyed property? Did you press charges against the kid for stealing?


They are pressing charges against the parents, but that is still pending. We have cameras in the hall and they have him on film going into the bathroom and coming out. No one else did in a pretty long period of time so they pretty much have him - but if the parents get a good lawyer the district may have a hard time making it stick.

Good... hope they can make it stick... then make the parents pay AND get caned too... :twisted: Punish the parents for unruly children... it is after all, their fault...

:twisted:


stripey wrote:
Quote:
Have you ever considered switching to teaching college kids? cuz THEY all want to learn...


Yes I have but in order to be full time at a college you must have your PHD and I am 53 years old and just now working on my masters. Plus it would be a HUGE cut in pay for about 5 years. I couldn't plan for my retirement if I took such a cut in pay. I am paying BIG into a seperate retirement account so I don't have to teach until I am 66 years old. That is how long I have to teach in order to get 30 years in. I was a stay at home mom so I got a late start.

The cut in pay is looking better and better. It is better than winding up dead at an earlier age from major stress.

Do the little thugs bring weapons to school in your state like they do here?


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