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 Post subject: US Joins Saudis in Arming Iraqi Sunni Insurgents
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:21 pm 
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With a wink and a nod from the Bush administration, the Saudis have been secretly arming the Sunni insurgency, which has been killing Amrican soldiers for years. This is the same thing the Saudis did in Afghanistan, at the request of the US, when they funded their jihadists to attack Russian troops.

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Link: Is the Administration’s new policy benefitting our enemies in the war on terrorism?

In the past few months, as the situation in Iraq has deteriorated, the Bush Administration, in both its public diplomacy and its covert operations, has significantly shifted its Middle East strategy. The “redirection,” as some inside the White House have called the new strategy, has brought the United States closer to an open confrontation with Iran and, in parts of the region, propelled it into a widening sectarian conflict between Shiite and Sunni Muslims.

“The Saudis have considerable financial means, and have deep relations with the Muslim Brotherhood and the Salafis”—Sunni extremists who view Shiites as apostates. “The last time Iran was a threat, the Saudis were able to mobilize the worst kinds of Islamic radicals. Once you get them out of the box, you can’t put them back.”

The Saudi royal family has been, by turns, both a sponsor and a target of Sunni extremists, who object to the corruption and decadence among the family’s myriad princes. The princes are gambling that they will not be overthrown as long as they continue to support religious schools and charities linked to the extremists. The Administration’s new strategy is heavily dependent on this bargain.

Nasr compared the current situation to the period in which Al Qaeda first emerged. In the nineteen-eighties and the early nineties, the Saudi government offered to subsidize the covert American C.I.A. proxy war against the Soviet Union in Afghanistan. Hundreds of young Saudis were sent into the border areas of Pakistan, where they set up religious schools, training bases, and recruiting facilities. Then, as now, many of the operatives who were paid with Saudi money were Salafis. Among them, of course, were Osama bin Laden and his associates, who founded Al Qaeda, in 1988.

This time, the U.S. government consultant told me, Bandar and other Saudis have assured the White House that “they will keep a very close eye on the religious fundamentalists. Their message to us was ‘We’ve created this movement, and we can control it.’ It’s not that we don’t want the Salafis to throw bombs; it’s who they throw them at—Hezbollah, Moqtada al-Sadr, Iran, and at the Syrians, if they continue to work with Hezbollah and Iran.”



Last year, the Saudis publicly proclaimed that they would back the Sunnis in an Iraqi civil war, should the US pull out it's troops.

Quote:
[url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/12/14/wsaudi14.xml]Link: We'll arm Sunni insurgents in Iraq, say Saudis
[/url]

Saudi Arabia would respond to an American withdrawal from Iraq by funding and arming Sunni insurgents to prevent them being massacred by Shia militias, the kingdom has told the White House.

The blunt warning, which diplomatic sources said was delivered by King Abdullah to Vice President Dick Cheney in Riyadh just over a fortnight ago, raises the spectre of an Iraqi civil war triggering a conflict between Sunni and Shia states across the Middle East.



Now, the Bush administration has joined with their Saudi allies to heavily arm the Sunni insurgents.

Quote:
Link: U.S. Arming Sunnis in Iraq to Battle Old Qaeda Allies

BAGHDAD, June 10 — With the four-month-old increase in American troops showing only modest success in curbing insurgent attacks, American commanders are turning to another strategy that they acknowledge is fraught with risk: arming Sunni Arab groups that have promised to fight militants linked with Al Qaeda who have been their allies in the past.

But critics of the strategy, including some American officers, say it could amount to the Americans’ arming both sides in a future civil war. The United States has spent more than $15 billion in building up Iraq’s army and police force, whose manpower of 350,000 is heavily Shiite. With an American troop drawdown increasingly likely in the next year, and little sign of a political accommodation between Shiite and Sunni politicians in Baghdad, the critics say, there is a risk that any weapons given to Sunni groups will eventually be used against Shiites. There is also the possibility the weapons could be used against the Americans themselves.

American commanders say the Sunni groups they are negotiating with show few signs of wanting to work with the Shiite-led government of Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki. For their part, Shiite leaders are deeply suspicious of any American move to co-opt Sunni groups that are wedded to a return to Sunni political dominance.

With the agreement to arm some Sunni groups, the Americans also appear to have made a tacit recognition that earlier demands for the disarming of Shiite militia groups are politically unachievable for now given the refusal of powerful Shiite political parties to shed their armed wings. In effect, the Americans seem to have concluded that as long as the Shiites maintain their militias, Shiite leaders are in a poor position to protest the arming of Sunni groups whose activities will be under close American scrutiny.

Americans officers acknowledge that providing weapons to breakaway rebel groups is not new in counterinsurgency warfare, and that in places where it has been tried before, including the French colonial war in Algeria, the British-led fight against insurgents in Malaya in the early 1950s, and in Vietnam, the effort often backfired, with weapons given to the rebels being turned against the forces providing them.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 5:34 am 
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Okay, America had PNAC. They knew what they wanted and they cheated to take hold of our government so they could get it.

Didn't they know anything about the ME beyond that it had oil? It sounds as though they didn't! They have bungled everything they have touched--except for getting their people into office.

The world must look at the US now as a bunch of clowns--frittering away our fortune and our future. And doing quite a job of ruining lives 'over there' as well.

Good heavens! And this isn't the worst of it yet I am afraid...

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:18 pm 
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dori wrote:
Okay, America had PNAC. They knew what they wanted and they cheated to take hold of our government so they could get it.

Didn't they know anything about the ME beyond that it had oil? It sounds as though they didn't! They have bungled everything they have touched--except for getting their people into office.


You are assuming that the bloodthirsty imperialist neocons of PNAC ever intended for this war to end. You now see lots of conservative Republicans wringing their hands over how the war was mishandled. I don't think the neocons of the Bush administration mishandled the war at all. To one who believed all along that the true motive for the invasion and inevitable endless war was to steal, it seems obvious that the plan is working to perfection.

Remember, Bush appointed Iraq Viceroy Paul Bremer stole almost $9 billion before he left Iraq. That's a lot of dough to spread around to the PNAC community and to those who do their dirty work for them. And since then, they have been stealing up to $15 million/day in Iraqi oil. See thread: Cheney's Heros It would be impossible to steal such gigantic amounts of money and oil if the country were at peace.

Of course, the Iraqis weren't the only people targeted to be ripped off by these thieves. The war is an unparalleled vehicle for the best friends of PNAC, the executives of US defense contractors, to steal from the American taxpayers. They have probably stolen even more from us, than they have from the Iraqis. Should peace break out in Iraq, this gravy train would also end.

So, to answer your question, yes, they knew a great deal about the ME, and if they have bungled anything, it is the most profitable (though ill-gotten) bungle in history.

dori wrote:
The world must look at the US now as a bunch of clowns--frittering away our fortune and our future. And doing quite a job of ruining lives 'over there' as well.


I think most of the world understands what the neocons are doing. People in other countries think we are a bunch of clowns for allowing them to take power in the first place, and they think even less of us for refusing to see what is happening.

dori wrote:
Good heavens! And this isn't the worst of it yet I am afraid...


No, this isn't the worst of it. Unless the American public wakes up, realizes what these criminals are doing, and puts a stop to it, they will continue to murder and steal in ever greater amounts.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 4:53 am 
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shoeless wrote:
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AND THERE IT IS! A BUSH TRUTH!!!

I agree shoeless. When Bush stood in front of that sign saying 'Mission Accomplished', he was telling the truth. THEIR mission was accomplished. And continues to be accomplished.

I put Eisenhower's speech about the military-industrial complex in the famous quotes thread. Eisenhower's wisdom

Of course, we are dealing with far more than the military-industrial complex at this point. The criminal right has branched out into just about anything you can think of, and many things we haven't thought of yet. They had a plan, and their plan has worked beautifully for them.

The heck with the rest of the world...

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 1:33 am 
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The criminal right has branched out into just about anything you can think of


It is not that black and white :wink: It is more like a very dark shade of gray. :lol: You can not divide evil into right and left unfortunately If it were that easy we could certainly win.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 6:27 am 
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TUTUTKAMEN wrote:
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The criminal right has branched out into just about anything you can think of


It is not that black and white :wink: It is more like a very dark shade of gray. :lol: You can not divide evil into right and left unfortunately If it were that easy we could certainly win.

TuT


I believe left has been overtaken in too many places by right. Evil comes with the territory.

When greed and lust for power come into the picture, there is no left or right. There is only evil...

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 7:43 am 
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:09 am 
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Forgive us, for we know not what we do...

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:58 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 1:08 pm 
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This is a foolish policy, and I can easily see that we will see our troops being targeted by these groups -- just as members of the Iraqi Army have helped insurgent groups.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 2:36 pm 
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will in chicago wrote:
This is a foolish policy, and I can easily see that we will see our troops being targeted by these groups -- just as members of the Iraqi Army have helped insurgent groups.


Foolish like a fox. The neocons in charge don't give a rat's ass if these arms are used against our troops. Otherwise, they would have told the Saudis to stop funding the Sunni insurgents and al Qaeda in Mesopotamia years ago. This is all about increasing profits for the MIC while ensuring that the chaos continues to escalate. What could be a sweeter deal for the defense contractors? Now they get paid by American taxpayers to openly fund three, count 'em, THREE sides in the Iraq civil war, the Sunni insurgents (some of whom are al Qaeda in Mesopotamia), the Shiite police and military (many of whom are members of Shia militia deathsquads), and the US military.

Of course, this isn't the first time a Republican administration has supplied weapons to both sides in a Middle-East war.

Quote:
ARMS TO THE AYATOLLAH

The main tool by which U.S. policy makers sought to secure their position in Iran in 1985 and 1986 was secretly providing arms and intelligence information. As a proclaimed neutral in the Iran-Iraq war, the United States was not supposed to supply weapons to either side. Nevertheless, U.S. allies kept the combatants well-stocked

http://www.zmag.org/zmag/articles/ShalomIranIraq.html


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 2:46 pm 
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It seems to me that this has become a monster so large, it's impossible to control at this juncture. Is there a viable solution that could be implemented during our lifetimes? :shock: :evil:

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:11 pm 
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Catherine wrote:
It seems to me that this has become a monster so large, it's impossible to control at this juncture. Is there a viable solution that could be implemented during our lifetimes? :shock: :evil:


I don't know, but first we have to rid ourselves of the monsters who are creating this monster.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 6:56 pm 
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We are pushing towards the tipping point in global climate change. Are we pushing towards the tipping point in this monster too?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:24 pm 
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Catherine wrote:
It seems to me that this has become a monster so large, it's impossible to control at this juncture. Is there a viable solution that could be implemented during our lifetimes? :shock: :evil:


Revolution !!!!!!!!!!!

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