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 Post subject: Under a green sky
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:09 am 
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New book from Peter Ward explains the past global warming stages on earth. Not a pretty picture.

http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/006386.html

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It is one of the difficulties of our day that the unthinkable nature of the future towards which we are sliding makes it mentally invisible to many of us. "How bad could it get?" we think, trusting that because we've muddled through so far, all will probably be okay in the end, no matter how badly we mess up the planet. But the planet, we're coming to realize, is chock-a-block with non-linear systems: systems in which things go okay, they go a little poorly, they go a little more poorly, and then come flying apart in utter chaos. Climate, it turns out, may be the most dangerous non-linear system of all. Put enough carbon in the atmosphere and all manner of dark weirdness (from melting ice caps to ocean currents gone awry to the biological death of undersea life) erupts.

Ward takes us into the deep past, to the end of the Triassic, as a guide to what atmospheric carbon of 1,000 ppm (a concentration we will hit within the century if we don't change our ways) might be like if we believe the paleontological record:


Waves slowly lap on the quiet shore, slow-motion waves with the consistency of gelatin. Most of the shoreline is encrusted with rotting organic matter, silk-like swathes of bacterial slick now putrefying under the blazing sun... [W]e look out on the surface of the great sea itself, and as far as the eye can see there is a mirrored flatness, an ocean without whitecaps. Yet that is not the biggest surprise. From shore to the horizon, there is but an unending purple color -- a vast, flat, oily purple. No fish break its surface, no birds or any other kind of flying creatures dip down looking for food. The purple color comes from vast concentrations of floating bacteria, for the oceans of Earth have all become covered with a hundred-foot thick veneer of purple and green bacterial soup. ...There is one final surprise. We look upward, to the sky. ... We are under a pale green sky, and it has the smell of death and poison. We have gone to Nevada of 200 million years ago only to arrive under the transparent atmospheric glass of a greenhouse extinction event, and it is poison, heat and mass death that are found in this greenhouse."

In other words, despite what some conservative pundits have written, you might not want to vacation in an extreme greenhouse world, after all. Forget "breeding couples" camping out in the Arctic, we may not have flowering plants or any but the toughest insects left (the cockroaches from my first apartment will almost certainly make it).

The basic take away? Climate can go crazy, and when it does, you don't want to be in the room (or on the planet). As Wallace Broecker says, ""The climate is an angry beast, and we are poking it with sticks" Or, as Ward tells it:

"Our world is hurtling toward carbon dioxide levels not seen since the Eocene epoch of 60 million years ago, which, importantly enough, occurred right after a greenhouse extinction."
This could begin to happen as soon as 2100, Ward says. Many babies today will be alive then. This is not some woo-woo future: this is the world we may be cooking up for our children.
Catherine just posted one on the September temp in the US and those are some serious figures. Got drought? Here on the west coast they tell us our summers are so dry that the cedars will die of thirst. So much for this trees majesty. I can see this is a real problem, as water supplies dry up or turn sour- toxic as it were to all life.

When the last fish has been caught, the last tree been cut and the last stream poisoned will man finally realize that his money has no real nutritional value. It's just a ruse to our inherent ignorance about what is real, as we manufacture comfort from the earth and blame it on nothing- not even our greed or laziness. We just take take take as if we deserve it over all other species.

What a joke we've created- our eden has gone sour on us and gods angels are ready to ban us from paradise again.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :|

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 Post subject: Re: Under a green sky
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:21 pm 
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DO.g's wrote:
Here on the west coast they tell us our summers are so dry that the cedars will die of thirst. So much for this trees majesty. I can see this is a real problem, as water supplies dry up or turn sour- toxic as it were to all life.


Uuumm.... its most likely a Chamaecyparis , could be Juniperus but I doubt it, but I think you live out west.


I hate common names. There are really only 4 cedars in the world and they are in Africa/Middle East. Unless of course they were planted in your area, but I think that would be odd......


Either way, the article is awfully interesting.

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 Post subject: Re: Under a green sky
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:46 pm 
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nygreenguy wrote:
Either way, the article is awfully interesting.


And scary as hell!

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:07 am 
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Yup, we are in trouble. We have known we are in trouble for years. Most of 'we' don't give a darn as long as it hasn't hit us personally yet.

Shoeless, Tom Toles can say with one cartoon what it takes others to write volumes about. Thank you.

To everyone--have you called your Congresscritters yet? Have you called them over and over and over again? We have one world, we need to save as much of it as possible--and SUVs are not going to do that.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:33 pm 
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Forgot you were here greenie. Western Red Cedar- Thuja plicata-

Wildlife of Coastal Rainforests -

Plants & Animals that live in the mountains and valleys of the Pacific Northwest must be adapted to a high level of rainfall. The Greater Vancouver Area receives about 2 metres of precipitation each year, mostly in the form of rain. This, combined with a mild temperate climate with average summer temperatures hovering near 18 degrees Celcius and average winter temperatures above zero degrees Celcius, allows the trees to grow rapidly in a moist warm environment. These forests in turn provide a good place for many animals to make their home.

Right now with the amount of summer rain we don't get anymore, they are going into shock and their foliage is turning brown.

Ever heard of the Chamaecyparis nootkatensis- Yellow-cedar?

"Nootkatensis" (in the Latin name) refers to Nootka Sound on the west side of Vancouver Island where this species was first identified. A close relative of Port Orford Cedar, Alaska Yellow cedar can be found west of the Coast Mountains and on North West Coast islands. It grows up to 80 feet (24 meters) tall and up to 3 feet (90 cm) in diameter. The wood is of a fine, close texture, is easily worked, very durable and has a strong fragrance.

Yellow Cedar is very desirable and commercially valuable for its straight grain, yellow color and its resistance to decay. Prized in Japanese temples and shrines for its dignity and elegance, It is also used extensively for boat building, sauna manufacturing, fine cabinetry and interior and exterior millwork.

Aboriginal people used yellow cedar extensively for paddles, masks, dishes, bows and to make clothing and blankets.

You are correct that it is not a member of the actual cedar family-
Quote:
Deodar Cedar – Cedrus deodara (Pinaceae) An evergreen conifer native to the Himalayas. Deodar Cedar is one of four species which are the “true” cedars in the genus Cedrus. Deodar Cedar is distinguished by leaves up to 5 cm long borne on short shoots like larch, but the leaves of Cedrus are not deciduous. The cones are upright at maturity, similar to Abies, but they take 2-3 years to mature. Unlike our native conifers which shed pollen in the spring, Cedrus sheds pollen in the late summer or autumn. The specific name deodara is derived from the Sanskrit name, 'devadara', meaning timber of the gods. It is the national tree of Pakistan. The related Cedrus libani is the Cedar-of-Lebanon, and BC’s native western red cedar and yellow cypress (also known as yellow-cedar) are not considered “true” cedars as they are in different genera and a different family. Although this individual lost most of its needles after cold damage in the winter of 2006/07, it is now recovering.


This is a map of the UVic campus and a forest biology tree map. Our campus is so beautiful.

web.uvic.ca/forbiol/news/Treewalk.pdf

Sad we will possibly lose these giants. Sad we have to ignore our needs to feed our greeds. That may be our epitaph.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 6:12 pm 
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DO.g's wrote:
Forgot you were here greenie. Western Red Cedar- Thuja plicata-
You forgot about me?

JERK!!



Yes, im quite familiar with that species, we have it out here as well, but ours are a bit smaller.


Quote:
Right now with the amount of summer rain we don't get anymore, they are going into shock and their foliage is turning brown.
Well, thujas commons turn brown a lot. It is somewhat natural for them to have many brown sprays (branches) on them. But im assuming there is an increase?

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Ever heard of the Chamaecyparis nootkatensis- Yellow-cedar?
I know the genus, but not the species!



Quote:
Yellow Cedar is very desirable and commercially valuable for its straight grain, yellow color and its resistance to decay. Prized in Japanese temples and shrines for its dignity and elegance, It is also used extensively for boat building, sauna manufacturing, fine cabinetry and interior and exterior millwork.
Most trees in the Cupressaceae are VERY decay resistant and are being used for farm fences out here!





Quote:
This is a map of the UVic campus and a forest biology tree map. Our campus is so beautiful.

web.uvic.ca/forbiol/news/Treewalk.pdf
Thats bitchin. I know most of those trees really well but some are totally new to me! Thats an awesome list!

One of these days I hope to make it out there!

While were talking about universities:Did you know my university SUNY ESF essentially created the discipline of foresty? We also have the first, and oldest dendrology class in the country. And there really only 1 real dendrology textbook used, and thats the one my professor helped write!

Quote:
Sad we will possibly lose these giants. Sad we have to ignore our needs to feed our greeds. That may be our epitaph.
It really is, similar things are happening out here. The northers species are being pushed out, and the southern ones are creeping in. :o


But seriously, if anyone EVER wants to know anything about plants, Id be MORE than happy to answer any questions!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:42 am 
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Well, I haven't forgotten you're here, greenie...and it's welcome you are, to be sure! :wink:

Ok...I have many hemlocks which I want to protect from the murderous adelgeds. Late October is the recommended time to do the protecting, which is usually spraying the trees with insecticidal soaps or horticultural oils. Some people in the western end of my state are putting an insecticide into the ground around the base of the trees. (I have far too many hemlocks to afford to do that, as it's rather expensive).

Any recommendations as to the best insecticidal soaps or oils I can buy? I'd like to protect them organically if I can...

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:56 am 
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Catherine wrote:
Well, I haven't forgotten you're here, greenie...and it's welcome you are, to be sure! :wink:

Ok...I have many hemlocks which I want to protect from the murderous adelgeds. Late October is the recommended time to do the protecting, which is usually spraying the trees with insecticidal soaps or horticultural oils. Some people in the western end of my state are putting an insecticide into the ground around the base of the trees. (I have far too many hemlocks to afford to do that, as it's rather expensive).

Any recommendations as to the best insecticidal soaps or oils I can buy? I'd like to protect them organically if I can...


Whew, this is a tough one! I know that direct injection into the tree is by far the BEST option. The soil drenching is good if you have large amounts of trees because the spray can be a real bear if you have a lot of trees.

However, even with the organic spray, you cant do it anywhere near water on on slopes. So that may be a downside. This is about the limit of MY knowledge, but my professor did all of his masters and PhD work in your area so ill ask him about the specifics and he may even be able to point you to someone in your area who can help!

But also remember, sometimes the environmental damage from insecticides can be far less than loosing an entire stand of hemlocks.

It would be great if you posted a pic of your hemlocks!

And pm me what part of the state your in and any universities near you and ill ask my prof!


* Tennessee--http://www.utextension.utk.edu/offices/default.asp
* North Carolina--865-974-7114; http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/assn/ncacaa/
* Virginia--276-619-4330; http://www.ext.vt.edu/offices/
* Georgia--706-542-3824; http://www.caes.uga.edu/extension/
* South Carolina--864-656-3382; http://virtual.clemson.edu/groups/extension/

http://www.saveourhemlocks.org/controls/my_prop.shtml

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