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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:52 pm 
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Yes GG there is a joy to be felt here, but not for the reasons you think. We care about dee ann and wish to help her, as she cares for us and wishes to share what works for her. Makes for some amusing interplay that belies the seriousness of what we have to do to get through this lifetime. Sure is funny though.

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So the Holy Bible is a myth. I'm ignorant and stupid for believing such drival, oh and I'm a whirling idiot.

Hmmm- well I don't think we said that- seems you said it. Are you afraid of things actually being this way? None of us are perfect here, that's why we are here on earth- to figure out what is wrong here inside and on the earth as well. And it all comes back to the self and how it feels about itself. If you feel as your quote states, then I understand why you are stubborn.

Again, if you refuse to do the reading and become informed then stay ignorant of what has been discovered. It's your choice and being an older person I know that old dogs can learn new tricks. My dog is 13 years old and every day he thinks a new game up to play with me, and it's mostly about gaining power. Stubborness is resistance intended to reacquire power in a powerless situation. Just act belligerant and eventually people tire of you. Works every time, Right?

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You accused me of not reading the links you provided for me. Sorry you don't know everything. When I tried to pull up yors links, all I saw was one black screen. But since it was probably one of your man's theories, I wouldn't want to waste my time any way.

If one is unable to form their own opinion - then to this ignorant old woman it's hearsay.

I serve only one master and his word is a very reliable crutch for me. Thank you.
Such stubbornness leaves me wondering what are you on about? You really need to locate why you're being so stubborn. I bet it's not what you think it is. Perhaps you've even forgotten what was important to you and replaced it with something that makes sense to you. Too bad it has only made you stubborn and more judgemental, which is so typical to what is wrong with this world. Thank gaia we aren't under theocratic domination. If one were to think rationally they would be burned at the stake or drowned or tortured or reindoctrinated like history has shown happens when religions dominate cultures, rather than living with your spirituality. It is another way for the weak to gain power- that is all. Religion gives the person the idea that they're right no matter what, because of some secret belief, is so pointless when you have the power within you to answer all your questions and doubts.

Don't look to external forces to guide your inner compass and don't take things personally. There is a big world out there with real problems to deal with- and depending on some god to get even for you takes your power away from you and transfers into some form of divine justice that will get even for you. You should learn to turn your other cheek if you think you're so right, or don't you practice what you preach? Do you actually form your own opinion or do you just get angry and search for your crutches?

Oh and lefty, thanks for the site. I'm sure I read this before or have been on this site. I have faith in the fact that I have been here before. But until I know it for sure, I'm merely exercising my limited memory and witness techniques. But I guarantee that I have been here before! (maybe) :roll:

This bears repeating with appropriate underlines-
Quote:
Gospel teachings attributed to Jesus have been found in earlier texts, often word for word, some--like the famous Beatitudes--in Buddhist scriptures. The Golden Rule was not a Christian teaching, but a Tantric Buddhist expression of karmic law, repeated in the proverbs of Egypt's Goddess Maat, the Mother of Justice, and those of Greece's Goddess Dike, ruler of fate, and those of the Jewish sage Hillel. Nothing truly original has been found in any of the Jesus traditions, and the wonder-tales that used to compel belief because of their very incredibility are now dismissed as crude anachronisms persuasive only to the most naive and credulous minds.


Finally a prayer of understanding from the wisdom of the world, outside christian domain, as the only source of truth-

Quote:
"Life, the circle, a measurement with no beginning and no end."
--Phillip Deere, MUSKOGEE-CREEK
The circle teaches us how the Creator made things and how to live. It teaches us how we should look at creation. Life travels in a circle. In the East is the baby, to the South is the youth, in the West is the adult and in the North is the Elder. Then we return to the Earth Mother to start the cycle again. We observe what is `around us' from the center of the circle. This develops our point of view. We must be careful not to become self-centered.

Great Spirit, let me observe life from the circle's point of view.


Don't get so caught up in yourself so much that you think it all matters to only you and is coming only to you. See from the center how these things from outside are affecting and influencing your decisions about life and yourself and how they interrelate. Don't become self centered as if all you think is all that matters. Observe life from the circles point of view and grow to understand you are your own best friend and worst enemy. Only then can you see the strength in all sides of the circle! Only then can you open up and tell the truth!

Sharing and caring are what is missing from this world, and believe it or not, we do care about you and we aren't being mean. It is just your interpretation of words written that is making you angry, because of your stubbornness you can't see that. Please open your heart and mind to our message. We haven't made this up and we haven't arrived at these decisions because we think people are stupid- we know that people are conditioned and led to believe things that they cannot control or comprehend, but why make some grand mystery out of it and say that that is the truth! Life isn't about reading stories and calling them true, it is a quest and we are all pilgrims here trying to progress and sort out the whirreled problems that have been given to us as truth. I find that there is something wrong with given truths, they are based on other peoples opinions, and so are to be cast aside and questioned. Nothing comes for free, you have to work for it fight for it and then understand what it is you're fighting to know. The fight never ends because the mystery remains.

If you can't question and think for yourself then give us your worn out quotes and adages from whatever source of truth you use as proof of your veracity. Don't expect us to find truth in it though because we have knowledge of what motivates people to believe and trust in imaginary things- it replaces their non existant imagination that has been taken from them as a young person. remember back when you were an open slate? What have you filled your hopes and fears with?

Good luck, It could take years for people to grow from their arrested development but we all need to question our realities that we shape. Like artists or sculptors, is it a good work or is it full of shit, have we seen all we can or is there something we're missing? That is the challenge of choice- don't be afraid of choice or change or making mistakes. That is really what life is about and that is how we grow.

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Completely sane world
madness the only freedom

An ability to see both sides of a question
one of the marks of a mature mind

People don't choose to be dishonest
the choice chooses them

Now I know how Kusinich feels.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:05 pm 
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lefty wrote:

Quote:
[size=16]Gospel teachings attributed to Jesus have been found in earlier texts, often word for word, some--like the famous Beatitudes--in Buddhist scriptures. The Golden Rule was not a Christian teaching, but a Tantric Buddhist expression of karmic law,



I have read that Buddhist evangelists from the Far East were very active in the Mid East during that period. This accounts for the striking simlarities between Christian and Buddhist philosophy. In fact, some historians believe early Christian writings even contained references to reincarnation, which were systematically removed by the Church over the centuries.

Remember the three wise men, and where they came from.

Matthew 2:1-12

After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem and asked, "Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star in the east and have come to worship him."


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 Post subject: The Bible
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:09 pm 
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Your first example is from the old testiment. Yesterdays are stairsteps to today and we should remember the lessons we learned to become better people. The old testiment has been fulfilled but we need it for refrerence to remember some thing our small brains are unable to recall.

Your reference to Luke is New Testiment - yet to be fulfilled in its entirety.Yes, Christ says when you are struck on one cheek - turn the other - if our other cheek is struck he doesn't tell us what to do. Maybe he thinks we will do the right thing for all concerned.
Sometimes it takes a big person to walk away from a fight. Eh?


He also says if a man takes you to court for any reason give him your cloak also. Could the good Lord only want to warn us and call our attention to things that will be coming down the pike, to maybe allow us to think about how to avoid some situations or at least prepare us for the inevitable? Since he is all knowing I rather think he is trying to warn us to prepare ourselves.

To gain the wisdom and knowledge I seek, I must not only study my Bible, it requires a lot of cross referencing, so I need the whole Bible to be as sure as I am able, that my interpertation is the correct one for me.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:49 pm 
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There's no point trying to wake you up is there. Perhaps old age has overcome your ability to reason any longer.

Sorry about your dementia. My mother had that and a touch of schizphrenia, but she never claimed to hear god talking to her, so I guess the temporal lobe epilepsy wasn't very severe in her, just a mild excitement over her obsessions, especially about the bible.

Way to ignore all we speak about. Not much point arguing with stubbornness is there. It will win the day, just like Bush does. Like Bush, you ignore all the facts and stick to your little faith. I don't expect anyone takes you very seriously anymore because as they ignore you, you just get louder and more stubborn. Such childishness needs to be disciplined. No wonder you rely on a god to keep you in line. Left on your own you're uncontrollable.

Too bad, I thought you wanted to finally learn something in this lifetime, but once again human nature prevails. Good luck trying to convince people you're not just angry and afraid- but I see your truth for what it is- getting even for personal injustices. That is why you live within the bibles pages and can't get your mind into the real world.

Pretend worlds are so much more fun, but oh so easy to manipulate to suit your needs, aren't they. :roll:

_________________
Completely sane world
madness the only freedom

An ability to see both sides of a question
one of the marks of a mature mind

People don't choose to be dishonest
the choice chooses them

Now I know how Kusinich feels.


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 Post subject: Re: The Bible
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 6:01 pm 
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dee35ann wrote:
To gain the wisdom and knowledge I seek, I must not only study my Bible, it requires a lot of cross referencing, so I need the whole Bible to be as sure as I am able, that my interpertation is the correct one for me.


The two examples (an eye for an eye and turn the other cheek) found in your bible are contradictory and completely incompatable. If you indeed use the whole bible, these philosophies are irreconcilable, and thus prove the so-called "word of god" is not infallible. You must choose, as one of these philosophies is necessarily wrong. Either your god is confused, or he is playing mind games with us mere mortals.

dee35ann wrote:
The words in the Bible are consistent. They do not flip flop and change from day to day.


"Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad." -Euripides

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:11 pm 
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Heres an article from a reporter for the Guardian and his experience as a religious reporter in England-
http://newhumanist.org.uk/1630
Quote:
Articles > Volume 122 Issue 6 November/December 2007 >
Demob happy
After seven years on the faith front lines, Guardian religious affairs correspondent Stephen Bates is glad to be back on civvy street
Stephen Bates
I never wanted to be a religious affairs correspondent. I had always regarded it as a slippers and pipe sort of a job, to be given to ageing hacks in beige cardigans working their way towards retirement. So when the editor of the Guardian asked me to do the job in 2000, on my return from five years as the paper’s European Affairs Editor in Brussels, I thought he was trying to tell me something about the inexorable downward trajectory of a once moderate career.

It was a long time since I’d thought much about religion, though I still regarded myself as a Catholic (I still do). I was not one of those who’d been put off in adolescence, as so many are, especially those who have attended faith schools and drop religion like a hot brick as soon as they leave. As an altar boy, I’d never been molested or abused. In so far as I considered the subject, I felt benignly towards priests and vicars, churches and faiths. But that didn’t mean I wanted to write about them particularly: it’s very difficult to report about nice people trying to do good and make the world a better place – such sincere folk play havoc with one’s worldview.

Anyway, weren’t we all pretty ecumenical these days? Didn’t religious chaps and chapesses think the best of everyone, even those not of a like mind? How wrong I was. This was in the days before 9/11, George Bush’s election and the dawning realisation of the murderous impulses of religiously inspired Islamic terrorism, but I soon discovered there were quite enough feuds to be going on with even in the good old Church of England. The first inkling was when I opened what was to become my favourite religious periodical, the English Churchman, a deeply conservative publication which still calls the Pope the Anti-Christ, publishes the odd article suggesting slavery was not really such a bad institution and argues that Margaret Thatcher’s worst mistake was allowing shops to open on Sundays.

Well, in case you get the wrong idea, the Churchman’s readership is pretty minuscule, but the vehemence even in the mainstream denominations could be quite startling and bizarrely tunnel-visioned. Graham Dow, the Bishop of Carlisle, has come to public notice for suggesting that the recent floods were God’s judgement on a sinful nation, but not only is he not alone – perhaps just naive to speak so openly about it to a friendly journalist from the Sunday Telegraph – but they are not his weirdest views. An earlier book he wrote on demonic possession shows he believes devils enter up the anus (something Freudian here perhaps) and the signs of possession include wearing black, inappropriate laughter, inexplicable knowledge, Scottish ancestry or relatives who have been miners. You may laugh – inappropriately – but Dow used to be an Oxford college chaplain, indeed once prepared Tony Blair for confirmation, and has risen to be a diocesan bishop.


Wow, the things one learns when one pays attention to the grass roots- what people believe!! Makes for a great read to see why he quit and is disgusted with what it means to be a christian these days.

As we all know- there are not all bad people in these organs but there seems to be a higher percentage that belong in limbo and enjoy that fate as it was eventually sorted out as irrelevant as well.

Quote:
The religious correspondent is the one specialist on the Guardian who has to justify his specialism to the sceptics, on the paper and outside (“Why do we have to read this rubbish?”), and to our many religiously inclined readers (“Why are you always so hostile to religion?”). The Guardian actually gives more space to a wider range of religious (and non-religious) opinions than any other paper. That is precisely because religion is important as a philosophical, political, cultural, social and historical motivating force across the world and, despite the best efforts of atheists and secularists – some as fundamentalist in their beliefs as the most dogmatic religionist – will remain so.

Now I am moving on. It was time to go. What faith I had, I’ve lost, I am afraid – I’ve seen too much, too close. A young Methodist press officer once asked me earnestly whether I saw it as my job to spread the Good News of Jesus. No, I said, that’s the last thing I am here to do.


When the spinning stops the whirrled can only pray that they stop spinning and lose their dizziness. Perhaps if they exorcise their beliefs and abort their faiths they will help to end their dizziness and finally see the world for what it really is- spinning slowly but surely. :wink:

Why make it spin faster- it's dizzying enough as it is already! :roll:

_________________
Completely sane world
madness the only freedom

An ability to see both sides of a question
one of the marks of a mature mind

People don't choose to be dishonest
the choice chooses them

Now I know how Kusinich feels.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:18 pm 
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Here's something that really "spins the whirr!" :P

WHERE WAS THE "HAND OF GOD" TO PROTECT HIS OWN?

By Stardust

Quote:
More tragic shootings, and more stupid-ass interviews with fundies thanking Gawd for protecting them or helping them through the crisis. Security guard Jeanne Assam, a church member of the New Life Church in Colorado Springs (who shot gunman, Matthew Murray) said she “believes God gave her the strength to confront Murray, keeping her calm and focused.”

Well, where the fuck was her god to PREVENT all this from happening in the first place? Why do we never hear a news reporter ask that question
?


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"Behind every great fortune lies a great crime."
Honore de Balzac

"Democrats work to help people who need help.
That other party, they work for people who don't need help.
That's all there is to it."

~Harry S. Truman


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