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 Post subject: Please Help Me in this High Visibility 9/11 debate
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 1:15 pm 
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Please become a member here and share your thoughts. This site gets a lot of hits .

http://www.stltoday.com/forums/



By the way has anyone seen the movie about 9/11 called zeitgeist? It converted two Fox news Republicand into Inside jobers this week where I work. Just wondering if anyone has heard of it?

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 2:59 pm 
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You directed us to the city. How about the street?

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 6:15 pm 
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My geopolitical bad:

http://www.stltoday.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=504209

note that i didnt start this thread but it was a hot one a two days ago. If 9/11 people want to spread the word it would be good if two or three got on these big newspaper daily sites where the whole spectrum is there.. Thanks.

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The Kennedy Assassination is not about Kennedy
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There is a good reason its become a "word" almost like "Oliver Stone"


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:09 pm 
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Arguing 9/11 is an absolute waste of time. Neither side demonstrates significant knowledge...usually.

Presenting evidence is often done by 9/11 truthers. Only to be met with nothing but insults and accusations by 9/11 coveruppers. There would be a whole lot more 9/11 truthers if people didn't fear for their jobs and other forms of reprecussions. Not to mention that most people know almost nothing about 9/11.

If you really believe that 9/11 was at least aided by gov insiders as I do....it is logical to move as I am trying to do. Unless you believe that the insiders are satisfied now.

Read 'Debunking 9/11 Debunkers' by Griffin for a definitive essay with tens of thousands of documented facts.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:34 pm 
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You never win people over in those types of forums. It's all about one-flame-ups-menship.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:42 am 
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I disagree. If you have two or three people working together much can be accomplished. I think the 9/11 movement has suffered for avoiding these types of wider forums.

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The Kennedy Assassination is not about Kennedy
Many aspects of Cold War history run through it.
There is a good reason its become a "word" almost like "Oliver Stone"


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 8:07 am 
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Nathanial, thanks for the info on the discussion taking place at the forum you mentioned.

I don't have the time to read through the 26 pages, but do you know if anyone has mentioned the dvd entitled "Confronting the Evidence"?

If not, I suggest you offer it up as a very good resource for those who still believe the official story about the attacks.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:45 pm 
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the debate has heated up again at the above site.. I beg of you to help. I understand how frustrating it can be on these sites to be called names etc. Its just THAT I NO LONGER THINK ITS AS HELPLESS AS THAT. I am encouraged by the new LONGER LOOSE CHANGE FINAL CUT. these are videos with enough of the facts STRUNG TOGETHER.

There are more people on the edge than you think.

The trick is to build credibility, with people that they have heard of like Seymour Hersh et. al .even if these are not the best commnets.

IF WE DONT DIVE INTO THESE RINGS OF THE INTERNET WE WILL BE CONTRIBUTING TO THE MOATED CONSCIOUSNESS THAT HAS BEEN THE SINGLE BIGGEST DRRAWBACK OF THE INTERNET.

We complain about the mianstream media, but by isolating ourselves away from mainstream websites WE ONLY CONTRIBUTE TO ITS CORRUPTION. I obviously am not suggesting bad intentions, I just thin we need to begin to counteract some of limitations of this medium.

It is much better when two or three people are working together on this site, this is why Im asking for knowledgeable 9/11 people to help.

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The Kennedy Assassination is not about Kennedy
Many aspects of Cold War history run through it.
There is a good reason its become a "word" almost like "Oliver Stone"


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 Post subject: Re: Please Help Me in this High Visibility 9/11 debate
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:16 pm 
nathaniel heidenheimer wrote:
By the way has anyone seen the movie about 9/11 called zeitgeist?


If you need this synopsis, you're welcome to it.

ZEITGEIST

It's available on other forums as well.

Back in the day, I used to go against a lot of anti-inside job trolls, and it was pretty much a waste; the truth has a way of surfacing over time inevitably that does more to blow away the naive than anything I could ever say. But I'll take a look at that forum you mentioned.

Five Minutes Later . . .

OK, I've looked at the thread, and it's a waste of time. It's more cruel to let the retarded get blindsided later in life than to try to save them with the truth, so I say, "Don't shoot, let them burn."

Image

Image

Image


Last edited by Guest on Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:17 pm 
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The truth is I didnt even read what was on the thread, and the guy who was defending he inside job was not very good.

In my view thats not the point.

Leaving aside this thread ( which I can understand if your not feeling like it now) the borader point to me is that we have to go into these forums. There is no other way. I started another thread on 9/11 that was shorter and it got dropped. With bad threads like the long one on there now, it will only reinforce peoples ignorance, because it will be all the more easily dismissible.

I think the 9/11 movement has to go onto these sites, and if they do it in a planned way -- even with a little bit of planning -- it could go a long way.

I just don't agree that the truth will eventually out. The internet has shown that its really good at dividing subgroups AND THIS PREVENTS THE DEVELOPMENT OF A PUBLIC SPHERE so how will the truth get out. Not all threads are as bad as that one. But NOTHING IS BEING VENTURED by typing on sites like this one. How will anything be gained?

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The Kennedy Assassination is not about Kennedy
Many aspects of Cold War history run through it.
There is a good reason its become a "word" almost like "Oliver Stone"


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:59 pm 
nathaniel heidenheimer wrote:
The truth is I didnt even read what was on the thread, and the guy who was defending he inside job was not very good.

In my view thats not the point.

Leaving aside this thread ( which I can understand if your not feeling like it now) the borader point to me is that we have to go into these forums. There is no other way. I started another thread on 9/11 that was shorter and it got dropped. With bad threads like the long one on there now, it will only reinforce peoples ignorance, because it will be all the more easily dismissible.

I think the 9/11 movement has to go onto these sites, and if they do it in a planned way -- even with a little bit of planning -- it could go a long way.

I just don't agree that the truth will eventually out. The internet has shown that its really good at dividing subgroups AND THIS PREVENTS THE DEVELOPMENT OF A PUBLIC SPHERE so how will the truth get out. Not all threads are as bad as that one. But NOTHING IS BEING VENTURED by typing on sites like this one. How will anything be gained?


Starting with "How will anything be gained?"

Lurkers, for one. Some people -- like me when I first got started, or the producer of 9/11 Mysteries when he first got started -- are out there searching for resources that have credible answers. So I have to disagree that nothing is being ventured or gained by posting on a site like TVNL. Sites like this are a beacon in the darkness, and there is something to be gained by focusing on that, I would venture.

On another level, the truth of 9/11 is already out; the issue is who's hearing it? Rather than focusing on info-drive-byes at hostile sites, William Rodriguez, for example, gained much more by bypassing the shell of the United States altogether. In one episode of Cristina, he reached twice as many people as who were watching Oprah that day -- all outside of the United States.

When I discovered and watched films such as Sicko, or When the Levees Broke, and saw for myself how bad truth deprivation in the United States really is, I realized it was not my problem that certain rabid cliques in this country refuse to hear the truth. Some people are just too far gone, and it's not my problem. In the sense that even if 9/11 Truth was on the front page of every newspaper and network in the country tomorrow, there would always be rabid people who didn't believe it. And, believe it or not, I'm at peace with that. Let me focus on what I can do, and the rest is in God's hands. Or, as the saying goes, can a handful of dedicated people change the world? Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:45 pm 
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Typical way of arguing. Validate their sources and devalue yours. Wammies is trying, but it is hopeless. There are a few who want to push their agenda and so use their sources, like Pop Mech and the Marvin Bush thing as if they are facts. Then when wammies states a site URL it is invalidated as left wing trash. This is exactly what the left did to them when they had the majority and called the shots. Typical defense is to attack the source because it is just like attacking the person.

Even if you give a site there's no guarantee they will go there.

Have you mentioned that the FBI has no charges against Osama or any connection to 911? That the original translations were misinterpreted on purpose? That he's probably dead or sipping pina colada's at camp David?

If they feel their facts are more sound, what is it you can do to change it? This argument will go on until someone breaks the news. I mean, Kennedy was so obvious, but the official story is still believed and taught. This is how they operate. Whether intentional murder of its citizens or not, there will always be a preponderance of individuals who will back their country and its fables, no matter what.

Let them have their hollow victories and lets concentrate on knocking their supports out from under them. That is how the towers fell and that is how they will fall as well- soon technology will duplicate what happened and the only truth will come out- that our government has no qualms about murdering its own citizens for its greater good- Its survival as it is, intact and constant supercedes all other beliefs for most. its called business as usual.

Nothing not even truth comes without a fight for we are talking about losing power here- and that is never an easy job without fighting for it.

Are you ready for the real fight? That is what it will take to enact real change- we just have to resolve to follow through no matter how it comes and how bad it can get.

Sacrifices will be extreme and many will die or be imprisoned or black listed. Are we up for the sacrifice anymore? Or are we too content with this system and will follow it like lemmings to its inevitable conclusion as we all go over that ledge together, willing or not?

Seems we really have nothing to gain and nothing to lose. Just like choosing a god- are you with it or against it. There may be a reward at the end or we're just wasting our time hoping things will get better.

What a system :?: :roll:

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