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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2005 4:54 pm 
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mga...thank you for the thoughtful posts you've been making here over the past few days. Your presence on the board is refreshing. :)

Like you, I used to think the government could have nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks. After all, the WTC had been attacked before, unsuccessfully. It was a symbol of all that America had achieved, and its continued existance was a slap in the face of the extremists who wanted to symbolically bring America down via the fall of the twin towers. The occupants of the buildings were Americans. In fact, everything about those buildings represented America, almost as much as the flag, the Washington Monument, or the Statue of LIberty. I did not believe that the American government would attack Americans inside an American building on American soil in one of the most American cities within our nation. Only terrorists did those sorts of things, and we knew there were terrorists who hated America.

However, to make a long story short, I've since changed my mind about all of that. Why? Because the Bush administration is unlike any other administration we've had governing our country before. The Bush administration was born via deceit and contempt for the lawful rights of the American voting public. (RE: FLORIDA in 2000 and the SC appointment of Bush as prez.) The 9/11 attacks provided the Bush administration the open door to attack Iraq...about the only way an invasion would be supported by the American people.

The lies about the WMDs, the presence of Dick Cheny as VP and his Halliburton connections, the PNAC supporters all within the Bush government, the poor and cheaply funded 9/11 investigation, etc. etc...all of these things made me begin to have doubts.


I saw Mrs. Clinton booed at that memorial service you mentioned. I was sickened at the audacity of those people. No doubt, Karl Rove was laughing delightedly, as were Rumsfeld, Cheney, and old Spit Comb Wolfowitz.

Recently, I received in the mail the DVD entitled Confronting the Evidence: A Call to Reopen the 9/11 Investigation. (http://www.Reopen911.org)

I also have been in contact with an amazing man named Karl Schwarz (http://www.karlschwarz.com) The DVD and the information amassed by Mr. Schwarz, and others like him, have made me firmly believe that the Bush government was behind the attacks, if not directly, then they knew enough to stop them, and did not do so. The Bush government isn't the Constitution -embracing American government you and I have always supported, regardless of who or what party was in the White House. It's a rogue government just like the Nazis were a rogue German government.

Look at the home page of this website. Jesse has compiled an amazing array of evidence for the cooperation of the Bush government in the 9/11 attacks. Look at the Karl Schwarz website and the links that are there.

Those are good places to begin taking the blinders off.

Thanks, and keep posting.

Catherine

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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2005 5:45 pm 
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Catherine,

Again, I do not trust the Bush administration whatsoever. Nor, did I like the election outcome in 2000 and in 2004.

Additionally, I was not at all happy with the 9-11 commission and the panel of people who were selected. Nor was I pleased with the outcome of that group.

However, I have read alot about 9-11 and I am not convinced our governemt was directly behind it. I'll need more proof..not theories.

Also, no one is more anti-war than I am, and, I said from day one that Bush was lying about WMD, and that 9-11 was an excuse to attack Iraq....absolutely no argument from me on that issue!!

However, the problem lies with the state of mind americans are in today...I call it our "redneck" phase. No logic, no thinking, just go out and kill or attack anyone who we think is anti-american. I agree that Bush bullshitted americans into going to war, I agree he is one of the worst presidents, I agree there is alot going on that is slowly removing my rights, and I agree that he will definately make things worse before they get better.

But, if you like, give me web sites or articles to read about 9-11 and I'll feed my curiosity.....but, just make sure none are of some alien invasion type story...lol (my sarcasm)


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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2005 8:17 pm 
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But, if you like, give me web sites or articles to read about 9-11 and I'll feed my curiosity.....but, just make sure none are of some alien invasion type story...lol (my sarcasm)


Here are a few links:

http://www.karlschwarz.com (Good site, and lots of links. I've not seen any "alien" involvement theories, but there are so many links here, I"ve not looked at them all. If there are alien links, I'd be surprised. Nope, no alien theories for me, either...unless you can count Bush as an alien! (my sarcasm!)

http://www.karlschwarz.com/letter.html


http://www.reopen911.org

http://www.tvnewslies.org/html/conspiracy_.html

http://www.tvnewslies.org/html/covering_up.html

http://www.tvnewslies.org/html/9_11_warnings.html

http://www.tvnewslies.org/html/bin_laden_ties.html

http://www.tvnewslies.org/html/the_oj_response.html

http://www.tvnewslies.org/html/bush_fai ... _9_11.html

http://www.thememoryhole.org/911/bush-911.htm


These will do for starters. I'll keep looking around for more.

Catherine

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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2005 11:15 pm 
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Thanks, Catherine, that should keep me busy for a while. I'll be sure to read as much as I can with an open mind.


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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 12:40 am 
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Posted on Thu, Apr. 10, 2003

Michael Smerconish
By Michael Smerconish
www.mastalk.com

WHAT DO an Oklahoma City investigative reporter and a Philadelphia trial lawyer have in common?

It sounds like a riddle with a bad punch line, but the answer is far more somber.

In a post-9/11 version of "Six Degrees of Separation," both identified a terrorist link between Iraq and al Qaeda long before a discovery this week that supports the connection.

Jayna Davis is the reporter whose work I have twice featured on this page. She laboriously connected dots suggesting an Iraqi role in the bombing of the Murrah Federal Building. Many scoffed when Davis identified the infamous John Doe No. 2 as an Iraqi involved with Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols, the two ex-Army buddies who many of us believed had acted alone.

Recall that in the immediate aftermath of the explosion, the FBI launched an international pursuit of several Mideastern-looking males seen fleeing the Murrah building in a brown Chevy pickup immediately before the blast. Without explanation, that APB was canceled.

Davis identified a group of Iraqis living in Oklahoma City, one of whom was a perfect match for John Doe No. 2. He even sported a tattoo on his left arm that Davis said indicated he likely served in Saddam Hussein's Republican Guard (this was before the rest of us ever heard of the Republican Guard). And she had two witnesses who put the Iraqi man with McVeigh and Nichols.

Davis has not gotten the credit she deserves, but she's looking more and more prescient.

The trial lawyer is James Beasley Jr. of the Beasley Firm in Center City who was the first lawyer in this country to file a wrongful-death suit in the aftermath of 9/11.

Beasley, acting on behalf of two families of people who died at Ground Zero, initially named as defendants the usual suspects: bin Laden, al Qaeda, the Taliban, certain Afghans. But he amended his federal court case more than a year ago to include Iraq and Saddam Hussein.

What led the trial lawyer to the same conclusion as the investigative reporter? In part, what he learned about Salman Pak.

Salman Pak is the Saddam terrorist camp 15 miles southeast of Baghdad that was overrun by U.S. marines this week.

On site at Salman Pak, coalition forces discovered part of the fuselage of a commercial passenger plane. But Salman Pak is no airport. The only conceivable explanation for the presence of the airplane is to train terrorists.

Which is exactly what Beasley told a federal judge in New York City on March 3, a month before the invasion of Iraq began. And that supports Davis' view that terrorism on our shores has Iraqi origins.

Beasley told Judge Harold Baer Jr. that Salman Pak has been devoted to enabling Islamic extremists to practice the art of murdering people.

He showed in open court the satellite photo that accompanies this column as part of the presentation of evidence that Iraq played a role in 9/11. And he had a big gun from the intelligence community supporting this view, a former director of the CIA, James Woolsey.

With regard to Salman Pak, Woolsey testified that "there was training of terrorists, Islamist terrorists, from countries other than Iraq, religious fundamentalists, in how to hijack aircraft."

"When I look at that pattern, what it strongly suggests to me is that in some fashion there was a common purpose here of the Iraqi government training of terrorists and those who conducted the Sept. 11 attack...to my mind, this is too much of a coincidence."

Woolsey also testified that he believes, due in large part to a letter to Beasley from the Czech U.N. ambassador, Hynek Mmonicek, that Mohammad Atta, the ringleader of the 9/11 hijackers, had indeed visited Prague in April 2001. And during that time he met with a senior Iraqi intelligence officer named Al-Ani.

Jayna Davis has similarly linked McVeigh and Nichols to the 9/11 hijackers. She has pointed out that Terry Nichols was a man of modest means who nevertheless traveled frequently to the Philippines. Davis discovered that Nichols was in Cebu City in December 1994 at the same time as the convicted mastermind of the first World Trade Center attack - Ramzi Yousef.

The plot thickens with the testimony of Laurie Mylroie, who holds a doctorate from Harvard for work on the rivalries among Iran, Iraq and Saudi Arabia. She's also written two books on Iraq.

Mylroie told the court in Beasley's case that "Iraqi intelligence had been behind the World Trade Center bombing; that Ramzi Yousef, the mastermind of that attack, was in fact an Iraqi intelligence agent." She further said that "Iraq, I believe, did provide support and resources for the Sept. 11 attacks."

No decision has been rendered in the federal case. But you could say that the discovery by the U.S. marines who overran Salman Pak has clearly spoken.
http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/nToose.htm

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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 7:42 am 
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hoo boy...another post with quotes from some "experts" who know and study Iraq. Where were all these so-called "experts" before the 9-11 attacks?

And, you close with some "expert's" (Laurie Mylroie..who is only trying to sell more books) testimony..all from a woman who most likely has never left the country, and she concludes that an empty shell of an airplane was proof positive that Iraq must have has something to do with 9-11..LOL

Unfortunately, she doesn't state that Saddam and Bin Laden were, at that time, enemies who did NOT get along and Saddam kept Usama's band out of his country..yet, american intelligence suggests that the pilots were all from Bin Laden's group of merry men....go figure.

PS..you have it wrong: right-wing thinking is clearly disturbed.


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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 9:12 am 
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Let's just try to let Buckshot alone, guys and gals. He is clearly earning our hard-earned tax dollars by promoting the Uncle Same official story version here.

Part of me does not blame him. Our federal disinformation agents need to earn their money. They have kids' braces to pay for and mortgages, too. It is their job to try to get us to believe the official story.

Imagine if the entire nation were to find out all the truths, about all the secrets ops, all the black market crimes? They would quickly all then get in their pickups and storm the nation's capital if they found out what Uncle Sam and his shadow forces have been busy as bees working on some pretty horrible, pretty gruesome activities for the past 50-60 years.

We should just leave Buckshot alone and let him do his job. Anyone who is reading any of the alternative media at all knows that he is just spinning the FOX news network (Uncle Sam's propaganda station), as he is getting paid to do.

You see, people like him simply must do their jobs and they know it, if they wish to see the fascism continue to unfold exactly as it has been.

We will never in a million years be able to convince Buckshot to stop because in his mind, that is what you do. You defend your nation and your selected leaders - even when they have done some horribly amoral things. Their mindset is "America right or wrong" and we can do nothing to change that.

So let's not waste our energy any longer - We need it to educate the truly un-knowing who at least still do have minds that work and think for themselves.

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 Post subject: How do you respong to...
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 10:33 am 
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buckshot wrote:
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What is your reponse to the OVERWHELMING evidence that the attacks, at the very least, were permitted to happen by the neocons in the White House who OPENLY stated that their agenda, which we are following now, would not be accepted without a NEW PEARL HARBOR? Doesn't knowing that one fact at least make you the least bit curious?

When our government had lied to us regarding the reasons for entering into virtually every war we have been in, how do you close your eyes and by the official story, especially when the motives were openly published and the official story has more holes in it than it has facts?

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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 1:00 am 
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What is your reponse to the OVERWHELMING evidence that the attacks, at the very least, were permitted to happen by the neocons in the White House who OPENLY stated that their agenda, which we are following now, would not be accepted without a NEW PEARL HARBOR? Doesn't knowing that one fact at least make you the least bit curious?


there is overwhelming THEORYS, nothing more, i have yet to see any hard evidence. i have yet to see someone charged and convicted with 911 theory's .

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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 9:14 am 
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buckshot wrote:
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there is overwhelming THEORYS, nothing more, i have yet to see any hard evidence. i have yet to see someone charged and convicted with 911 theory's .


for some reason, buckshot, i still doubt you'd be willing to accept any evidence as being "real", nor would i expect you to change your mind.

your name alone tells me much about you.


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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 11:33 am 
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Dear Buckshot,

If you are not being paid by our government to try to dissuade people from knowing the truth, and if you are genuinely interested in learning more about the malevolence of which our government is capable of.... I cordially invite you to read two things and think about them, please, okay?

The first is: http://larouchepub.com/other/2001/2839o ... thwds.html

The second is the online copy of the Operation Northwoods document at:
http://www.mackwhite.com/northwoods.html

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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 8:41 pm 
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buckshot wrote:
there is overwhelming THEORYS, nothing more, i have yet to see any hard evidence. i have yet to see someone charged and convicted with 911 theory's .

mga wrote:
for some reason, buckshot, i still doubt you'd be willing to accept any evidence as being "real", nor would i expect you to change your mind.

your name alone tells me much about you.


That's funny... That's what I said about him when he first came onboard here.

mga, you'll find that Bucky is faith based. He puts his faith in WorldNetDaily, Townhall.com, Fox, Mikey Savage, Sean Hannity, Annie "Adam's Apple" Coulter and others in a stellar lineup of right wing infotainment based on putrid elephant effluent emanating from the GOP Ministry of Truth.

I personally don't think that Bucky's dumb. He's just selectively ignorant of facts.

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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 10:09 pm 
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Does GOP stand for Gannonites On Parade?

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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2005 2:22 am 
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TheStripey1 wrote:
Does GOP stand for Gannonites On Parade?


Or Gropers On Parade... :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2005 3:17 am 
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That Douche named Lyndon LaRouche
Expulsion - George Mason University/September 2, 2001
By Ajay Jain
I couldn't help myself. Walking back from class early last fall, I saw two middle-aged white men standing next to a table in front of the Johnson Center. I can't recall exactly what the sign on their table said, but it sparked my attention enough for me to stop and look. This was my first encounter with the LaRouchians.

A shifty fellow who refused to look me in the eye shoved a graph in my face showing the rise of oil prices over the last year. Evidently he assumed I had been living in a cave. He explained that greedy Wall Street speculators were killing children by controlling oil prices. Interesting angle. He then explained that the only way to avoid a total economic collapse was for the government to set a ceiling on the price of oil. I brought up the fact that our government tried this in the 70's, and it led to a huge shortage resulting in mile long gas lines. I smiled as he fumbled through his graphs.

He must have been new, because before he could stutter through his next sentence I was approached by his older, gray-bearded associate. The older fellow then launched into a story about how United States dollars are on loan to the Federal Reserve from the British government. He told me that all the money in my wallet was totally worthless, and that England could recall "their" money at any time. I was pretty sure that candid camera had seen its last season, but I still looked around for a lens. He wasn't joking.

He went on to tell me that the United States government is secretly being controlled by the British Monarchy. I asked him why our economy and military were stronger than England's. According to him, we have been lied to about our economy, and the U.S. military is actually a puppet of her majesty, the Queen. I guess I saw this coming, but I couldn't help but laugh.

At this point I realized that I was talking to two conspiracy theorists, and decided it was time to go. Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. I guess they thought they had sucked another college student into their fringe political party, so they asked for my phone number. I declined, but to be nice I told them I would take a look at one of their publications. The bearded fellow handed me one of their newspapers, "The New Federalist", and asked me for some money. I was fairly sure he was kidding, but to kill the awkward silence I looked him in the eye and said "But you told me my money is worthless, what are you going to do with it?". He stared back and said "Come on, printing these things gets kind of expensive." I thanked him for his time and walked away.

It was not until later that I found out that these two men worked for Lyndon LaRouche. Lyndon LaRouche has been campaigning for the office of President since 1976. He was convicted of tax evasion in 1989 and was sentenced to 15 years in a federal prison. LaRouche was released 10 years short of his sentence in 1994 and has since run for President in both 1996 and 2000. He is currently hard at work on his LaRouche in 2004 presidential campaign. It turns out that LaRouche actually has quite a few followers, which is scary considering that as a convicted felon he can't even vote for himself. The LaRouchians set up shop outside of the Johnson Center quite often and if you have a few minutes I highly suggest stopping by. Afterwards, make sure you thank your parents for sending you to college.
http://www.rickross.com/reference/larou ... uche5.html

http://www.rickross.com/reference/larou ... che34.html
http://www.rickross.com/reference/larou ... che21.html

http://www.rickross.com/groups/larouche.html

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