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 Post subject: Patriot act 1 and 2
PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 5:23 am 
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I found this tidbit about our disappearing freedoms today. There is lots more, but thanks to Bucky and the shoe bomber story, I'd thought I should look up the act.

This is a synopsis of 1&2 with some hilites of it's illegal or sketchy areas.
http://www.rense.com/general59/newsgath ... llegal.htm

A little story about an illegal area of it.
http://reclaimdemocracy.org/articles_20 ... ional.html

This is a copy of Patriot act 1. Probably don't want to read it. Like congress did not when they passed it.

http://www.epic.org/privacy/terrorism/hr3162.html


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 9:18 am 
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Who writes these damned things that the Congressional members don't read before they vote on them? Who the hell is supposed to be representing the people?

I know, I know...under Bush fascism, there is no real representation...just sock puppets up there masquerading as humans. :evil:

With the exception of a few, of course..Conyers and Boxer come to mind immediately.

With his last breath, bucky would sing the praises of the Rethugs even as they prepared to cut his throat. :roll:

Catherine

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"Behind every great fortune lies a great crime."
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"Democrats work to help people who need help.
That other party, they work for people who don't need help.
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~Harry S. Truman


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:29 pm 
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My neighbors would too Catherine.

One of the problems in Congress is that bills are presented to members just before a vote and there is no time to find out what is in them. Do you think that may be by design?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 5:51 pm 
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I don't know....but as the lawmakers of our nation, they should take the time to read the stuff before voting on it. I don't care how much it's been debated on the floor or how much they think they know about it...they should read everything before they vote...perhaps it would take too much time away from their socializing and trips back and forth among their various homes to do that.

On a smaller scale, this is comparable...every five years, our school system went through an accreditation process. Each school had to meet the criteria for re-accreditation and go through the process of self-evaluation. Early in the renewal year, the faculty and administration would get together and form committees to make sure each criteria was met long BEFORE the arrival of the evaluation team, which was made up of many outstanding educators, administrators, and state and local school board members.

To make a long story short, the committee chairs had to read, read, read, and re-read the data their committees were presenting...making sure each criteria was addressed, how it was addressed, and evidence of the fact. I was the chairperson of the Curriculum and Instruction Committee...we spent many evenings at school, going over and over every little thing. Care and attention went into the process because it was important...to the community, to the school system, and to the school itself.

How come the Congress can't give the same attention to such an important piece of legislation as the Patriot Act? No, I'm sure each and every bill that goes through doesn't need the fine-tooth combing the Patriot Act should've had..but not to read it before voting on it?

It's almost criminal. :evil:

Catherine

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"Behind every great fortune lies a great crime."
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"Democrats work to help people who need help.
That other party, they work for people who don't need help.
That's all there is to it."

~Harry S. Truman


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 4:43 pm 
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My question about it being by design was sarcasm, sorry about that. I should have made it a statement. It IS by design.

Isn't it odd that so much legislation was ready so quickly after 9/11? And that it is very complicated legislation? Could it be it was ready before 'our new Pearl Harbor' and the administration and their toadies in Congress jumped on their chance to push this through?

Out of curiosity I would like to know how you would handle a vote that came up on a bill that you had not had any access to until three hours before it was to be voted on. I don't know how I would handle that myself. I am not being argumentative, I really would like to know what you think on this.

It isn't poor planning Congress is dealing with, it is planning by cunning people to not allow those out of the fold to participate. It is a genuine problem.


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 Post subject: Define freedom?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 4:59 pm 
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Good comments and good questions. You have brought up the idea that it was as prepared and well planned out as the 911 attacks.

If there was a way to get a copy, I suggest that the Dems should have filibustered until it had been read in its entirety. That they went along with it, then you are correct in assuming that it was intended and on purpose, and that both sides of the house are complicit in the implementation of this act, for a larger purpose.

We're unwittingly being victimised and we're the ones under attack, it seems, as our freedoms are eroded at an ever increasing pace.


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