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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 1:50 pm 
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Who says your a sinner?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:53 pm 
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ECSMOKELOC wrote:
Who says your a sinner?


true.....no "sins" do exist, but i just like to play on the christian beliefs.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:38 pm 
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ECSMOKELOC wrote:
Who says you're a sinner?


The Judeo/Christian God does... Do you question it?

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 2:33 pm 
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TheStripey1 wrote:
ECSMOKELOC wrote:
Who says you're a sinner?


The Judeo/Christian God does... Do you question it?


don'cha know, stripey, most of us here are atheists?????? i was just playing with the "sinner" thing....there are no sins.


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 Post subject: Re: Is the Bible a Good Moral Guide?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 11:30 pm 
mga wrote:
almost all athiests i know are very respectable people versus the many assholes who claim to be "religious". it's these religious people who make up the majority of the assholes, not the athiests.


Your opinion on "respectable" is quite questionable, what with your actions being similar to those you despise. Satanists are more respectable than you, and they believe in being assholes.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:18 am 
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dear diary,

today i posted at the big people's forum. i don't know how to carry on a conversation unless i have my uncle do it for me, but i really tried my best. i know it didn't come out good but i did try. i feel like a real dummy when i'm with the big people and i never know what to say.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 10:42 am 
Dear Diary,

Isn't it amazing how the middle aged school girl likes to bitch at all of these forums about me whenever I point out a flaw in his argument? I think he just likes to bitch. It's quite humorous to see our middle aged school girl now claim two people are using my pseudonym, I guess it would hurt his ego too much to know a 20 year old is more intelligent than he'll ever be.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 8:22 pm 
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back to the adult conversation......

But aren't atheists less moral than religious people?"

That depends. If you define morality as obedience to God, then of course atheists are less moral as they don't obey any God. But usually when one talks of morality, one talks of what is acceptable ("right") and unacceptable ("wrong") behavior within society.

Humans are social animals, and to be maximally successful they must co-operate with each other. This is a good enough reason to discourage most atheists from "anti-social" or "immoral" behavior, purely for the purposes of self-preservation.

Many atheists behave in a "moral" or "compassionate" way simply because they feel a natural tendency to empathize with other humans. So why do they care what happens to others? They don't know, they simply are that way.

Naturally, there are some people who behave "immorally" and try to use atheism to justify their actions. However, there are equally many people who behave "immorally" and then try to use religious beliefs to justify their actions. For example:

Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners... But for that very reason, I was shown mercy so that in me... Jesus Christ might display His unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the king eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever."

The above quote is from a statement made to the court on February 17th 1992 by Jeffrey Dahmer, the notorious cannibal serial killer of Milwaukee, Wisconsin. It seems that for every atheist mass-murderer, there is a religious mass-murderer. But what of more trivial morality?

A survey conducted by the Roper Organization found that behavior deteriorated after "born again" experiences. While only 4% of respondents said they had driven intoxicated before being "born again," 12% had done so after conversion. Similarly, 5% had used illegal drugs before conversion, 9% after. Two percent admitted to engaging in illicit sex before salvation; 5% after. ["Freethought Today", September 1991, p. 12.]

So it seems that at best, religion does not have a monopoly on moral behavior.

Of course, a great many people are converted to (and from) Christianity during adolescence and their early twenties. This is also the time at which people begin to drink and become sexually active. It could be that the above figures merely indicate that Christianity has no effect on moral behavior, or insufficient effect to result in an overall fall in immoral behavior.

"Is there such a thing as atheist morality?"

If you mean "Is there such a thing as morality for atheists?", then the answer is yes, as explained above. Many atheists have ideas about morality which are at least as strong as those held by religious people.

If you mean "Does atheism have a characteristic moral code?", then the answer is no. Atheism by itself does not imply anything much about how a person will behave. Most atheists follow many of the same "moral rules" as theists, but for different reasons. Atheists view morality as something created by humans, according to the way humans feel the world 'ought' to work, rather than seeing it as a set of rules decreed by a supernatural being.

source noted above.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 8:37 pm 
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http://www.metroplexatheists.org/letters.htm#jail


Letters To The Editor

Letter printed Oct. 20, 1998 in The Fort Worth Star Telegram
No atheists in jail
The Oct. 5 piece by Jim Jones, "Persevering Faith," mentioned Christians, Muslims, one Jew, no Hindus and no Buddhists as inmates in the Tarrant County Jail. Jones went on to say that "most of the approximately 3,400 inmates come from Christian backgrounds."

What class of residents who comprise 7 to 9 percent of the U.S. population is missing from the jail population? The answer: atheists!

My, my, and the religious say you must have a god to have morals.

RANDALL GORMAN
State director, American Atheists Inc.
North Richland Hills


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 7:11 pm 
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mga wrote:
TheStripey1 wrote:
ECSMOKELOC wrote:
Who says you're a sinner?


The Judeo/Christian God does... Do you question it?


don'cha know, stripey, most of us here are atheists?????? i was just playing with the "sinner" thing....there are no sins.


There are no sins to the atheist? Well, I suppose not since to them there is NO God but mga there are far more people that believe in God than don't...

So have you any stats on how many atheists live in america? Are they a major voting bloc? Or a minor one? And... if we are to remove the right wingers' strangle hold on america, do you think it wise to piss off the Christian/Judeo believers with your atheistic joking around? It's the TVNL lurkers I refer to... not our posters...


:roll:

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 7:23 pm 
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I am not an atheist, but I dont believe that if you "sin", you will spend an eternity in hell unless you repent. If this IS true, then "God" is a lot worse than George Bush.


Stripey
Do you believe in the sins of the religions?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 7:35 pm 
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Define them...

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 7:54 pm 
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TheStripey1...there are several million atheists in america, but not as many as the christian right. as for being a voting block, i hardly doubt it. where the power (for lack of a better word) comes from is the laws of our nation. ie: constitution, bill of rights, etc

as for my joke about "sins", one has to understand that the use of or the threat of "sins" is meaningless to an atheist and therefore shouldn't be part of an argument or discussion. only christians fear sinning, which is ok for them. my intent was not to rile anyone up, but just to play on the "sin" word.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 8:40 pm 
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There are no sins to the atheist?


Stripey, you've asked a very good question, and I am happy to give you my opinion...

The very concept of sin comes from religious guidebooks. Religions offer to solve a problem of their own making! (Sounds like George Bush and 9/11, doesn't it?)

I would not be thankful to a person who cut me with a knife to sell me a bandage. I would not be respectful nor return to a doctor who makes me sick in order to stay in business. I'm not going to vote for a president who has lied to win approval for a war that he wanted all along.

Instead of "I am guilty but forgiven," I prefer "I was innocent all along." Sin is a viscious concept. It keeps people subservient. Even Jesus was supposed to have said, "They who are not sick need no physician."

Also, even though Christians are supposedly forgiven for all transgressions, they are never free from sin. Temptation lurks in every idle moment. How happy can one be if one thinks that every action and thought is being monitored by a ghostly judge?

Of course, Christians will say that paying daily homage to that ghostly judge brings them joy. Well, sure...it's like the joy of a slave who has gotten through the day without being beaten. An abused child has gotten past the angry parent without receiving a hard smack. A worker has gotten to the end of his shift without his boss giving him a lecture in front of his colleagues. (See Dan Barker's book Losing Faith in Faith for more on this topic.)

But is that real joy? To me, the real joy would come from eliminating the oppression altogether.

Catherine

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Last edited by Catherine on Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 3:12 pm 
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good points, C... and none that I would care to dispute...

but... just because the Christian thinks that all they have to do is SAY they believe in Christ and their sins will be forgiven doesn't mean that that's what happens when they reach... the pearly gates... I think it's what they want to have happen because then they can sin all they want without fear of retribution...

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