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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 9:46 pm 
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I dont know what I would say..at the time they probably hadnt heard about the other planes....

But again isnt that speculation? I know thats all we have to go by but come on now..

Dont know I probably wouldve said Your not gonna believe this but...and maybe he made the distinction because he wanted her to know he was calling from the plane itself....

dont know...but If now Im gonna hear now that these calls were forged somehow I might as well leave lol....this is a call recounted from that day to his mother....

It just leaves me to wonder where the whole "cell" phone angle started..was it basically a error and ALL the calls came from air phones?dont know...I know we're going by the reports saying cell phone calls but the media has been know to be wrong ya know :wink:

But all in all it doesnt change the fact that if some were actual cell phone calls....this was not impossible........


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 3:11 am 
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Lew, I sincerely hope you sleep well. Sweet dreams. You're not worth the effort I was willing to invest yesterday.

All is well in America. Hail to the Chief !

What's on TV Lew ? Hey, did ya hear Michael Jackson is moving to Germany ? Well, gotta go now. Sleep well Lew.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 3:54 am 
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Didnt care for my response JayHawk? why not? Are you going to try and tell me that the article is completely unbiased view?

Oh well sleep tight folks, and keep holding on to your hypocracy, and those conspiracy theories

I thought this place wanted opposing views I guess all it wants is everyone saying yeah yeah it was Bush all along.

take care


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 Post subject: Get all the facts and speculations. Its the best we can do.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:38 am 
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LEW-
Quote:
DO.g's

Cell phones do in fact work on Planes......Ive read the experiment by Germar Rudolf and yes I guess his didnt work...but that doesnt mean they cant work on planes LEW-Read this from beginning to end and try to understand what he is saying- it's not what you think.

Think about it, If they couldnt work at all why are they forbidden in the first place? Why not say hey your phones arent going to work so dont try... LEW-It is against the law. Read why when it may affect instruments
The Cnn report is about making the airplanes more cell phone friendly so the service is better and reception.....not that you could never make a cell phone call. LEW-Was this CNN report this year 2005? What does that have to do with 911, 2001 the date IT happened. You are using an anacronism, like Shakespere did when he mentioned guns and they hadn't been invented, in Henry 2
here's a link that shows that it wouldnt have been impossible for these phones to work on the planes LEW-Oh now you're using links that don't prove what you think they do
http://www.mobile-review.com/articles/2 ... e-en.shtml
LEW-Please read it again and then the parts I underlined and begin to understand. Read the whole thing and then give me a critique line by line. Comprehension means understand before you use something as a quote
LEW-
Quote:
I'll excuse you because maybe you haven't advanced beyond grade 3 reading comprehension, but read on, sonny. The amazing thing about the young is that their lives are basically shaped between the ages of 2-5 and by the time they reach the age of 8 (grade 3, usually) they have pretty much established the way they think and comprehend 'things'. Hence the reference to grade three. Most people never rise above that way of seeing or hearing what is happening, only what they've learned by then, to comprehend. What did you think about america at the age of 8? Did it change much when you finally became a teenager?

LEW-I will excuse you too, for being tactless, rude, obnoxious and for just being led around by your nose by conspiracy websites...... A childish response, I rest my case.Quote:

LEW-Cell phones usually don't work at high altitudes. When they do, they simultaneously communicate with hundreds of cell towers on the ground, clogging networks


LEW-what does usually mean....??? Taking a term out of context as the stress point is a childish response. You have to read the WHOLE article, like I told you to. Go back and read the whole article and remember that this person is a professional, trained by the military.

LEW-Heres something for you to think about, have you ever done your OWN research on 9/11? And not just regurgitate conspiracy website's propaganda? I have various degrees at university including child psychology and you exhibit the classic form of anger that youth exhibits when confronted with authority. This is why it is so easy to read you.


Dear LEW
Did you read the part where it says that they were over a low populated section of Pennsylvania at a certain height at a certain speed?
No? Read my sources and forget words like Conspiracy. What do these theorists have to gain? Is this guy getting rich? Famous? He's claimed anonymity because of fear of reprisal.

If you use CNN as a reference as 'truthful' and believe it to be 'the most trusted name in news', then read Jesse's blogs. Don't bring that lying bought and sold organ to this web site as valid news source. Like I said you have a grade 3 comprehension level, programmed to see and hear what you want to hear. You don't do any real research by cross-referencing through various news medias around the world as well as independent unembedded sources like Democracy Now, a world of possibilities, Tuc radio, Chomsky, Zinn, Virilio, Churchill, Ali, etc.etc. so how can you call yourself remotely informed. You wish to have your views dictated to you at every instance and use prewritten sources such as the one you chose to "prove your point" when upon careful analysis, it says the exact opposite of what you intended. The tactics you employ by evading the questions you have no answers for and defending where you feel you can score points only, with more garbage sources that can't be verified and are as vague as to illustrate, as mga points out, about the airplane phone that was being used, are age old evasion techniques that don't wash here. If you wish to discuss then do the research so you have something sensible to say. Looks like you started the thing about cell phones. All I did was show that stories can be screwed up at its sources(CNN, CIA, FBI, Cheney)

If Jayhawk wants to make you his personal project, then fine. The truth is that change comes from within, and if you aren't willing to give the optional ideals the same credibility that your patriotism to blind devotion gives you and open your eyes and ears , we're wasting our time on another obedient slave. Now answer questions and stop evading, slave.

On the actual day 911, I was watching and listening to CNN as they gave their play by play reports about what was transpiring. They were being fed news from whom? They weren't verifying its validity, just reporting what they were told to say. Sound familiar? Sounds exactly like the way you approach your views of events. They were the ones saying AT THAT TIME, that people were using their cell phones to call loved ones. You have to keep the time context in its proper perspective and not confuse what CNN says 2,3,4 years later. The article I gave you from USA today I dated for you as happening in 2004 and so is post-911 by 3 years; where it says that technology has finally advanced to the stage that by 2006 they can place the technology in planes that will allow cell phones to work on airplanes. BTW, is USA Today a conspiracy newspaper? No well shut up and read these articles. Completely.

It's not like a liar like Bush or Rove who come on the Telly and state something, then it becomes the g.OD's honest truth and you lapdog amerikans suck it up for what? national pride? Whistleblowers are getting threatened, murdered, blacklisted, put in jail etc. (shades of the Mccarthy era) for stepping forward to tell what they know, and MUST assume anonimity to get their message out. This is why the press needs anonimity of sources. In a free society where slaves like you need only obey rather than understand and stand up for truth and justice, you have the edge and merely have to threaten us with the words "Conspiracy Theory" or "Enemy of the State"(With us or with the terrorists) to validate your view; blinded by ignorance of the truth. Well we have researched this since before you were born and have seen a repeated pattern of lies, deceptions and coverups since after the second world war, so don't you in your limited world view of how history is MADE think that my view of events is restricted by this mere incident in history. My understanding of history is as thorough as the victors view of the creation of life and the universe and how it all connects. Piss on this era, the history books have never told the true story, only the perspective of the greedy and the powerful victorious is known. That is why if you wish to find the truth, then you must see things from the 'others' side. You rant on about the cell phones as relevant to truth like it is your proven method of avoiding the real issues. Then when it is mentioned by 'mga' that the words in your next quote about sonnys call to mommy was on a plane phone, suddenly you change your tack and wonder how the cell phone story got started as a way of explaining the morphing of all this cell phone nonsense. Like Proteus and our religious leaders with each conflict an answer is corrected by another question, such as all the questions you have no answers for. As long as you rant on about conspiracy theories or give useless quotes from people to avoid answering all the issues, that, will solve all the theorists issues. Who needs answers as to why or how these questions get started, just evade and decieve.

Well lets say that we have reached a new term of understanding called a "conspiracy reality" from the Bush camp, and all we're left with is speculation, because the truth as it always is, is so deeply hidden in a web of well crafted lies by the rich and powerful, that we aren't privy to all the facts. Like Bush,Rove, etc. all the cronies who have covered the truth and continue to cover it up. These lies never last, and may be exposed in our lifetime(Nixon).

This has been going on since, oh, forever and I'll give you a good example of how it operates. Take the bible(PLEASE) and imagine that it is a bunch of stories that purports to be the TRUTH. When after thousands of years, people start to question its soundness as a source of truth, they are persecuted, hounded, murdered, jailed, tortured and various other silencing techniques all because people start to question its validity as
THE source of truth. Eventually it succumbs to pressures and it is replaced by other forms of ideas, theories if you will, and those who were in control, who tend to gain both wealth and power from its use, see a conspiracy developing whereby they are losing their power and easy money. They have to somehow validate this age old(Beliefs predate civilizations) belief structure by updating and adapting,-the latest being Intelligent Design- implying some force greater than man who is the catalyst for our inception and creation. This is craftwork, indeed and if you fall for that, well, I've a tale of two towers to tell that fell for those arabs now in hell.

Finally, when 911 happened, My girlfriend sent an e-mail to the White House to tell Bush to restrain from retaliation. I told her that the lessons of history are meant to be ignored and she was wasting her time. You see, that moment in time was a turning point in civilization. If we are such a progressive civilized society and we've grown so much in human understanding, then it really was the moment to turn the other cheek and start a brave new world. No more rhetoric, no more personal gain motives and no more hatred. If Bush really is a religious man he would react as a good samaritan or in some form of fair assessment of factors that were contributing to the events of 911. It was a critical juncture in the history of the world, when we could have been an example and said NO MORE. Instead, there was that little Smirking Chimp the next day, being the Crazy Ape, and talking about justice, freedom and liberty . I knew he meant revenge slavery and subservience and we on both sides would be the losers. Now almost 4 years later, look at the world situation and tell me it's a safer freeer more secure world. What a difference a day makes and what a difference anger, hatred and greed gave us.

If you do come to your senses and join us, great- if not, you don't have it in you and you never will.


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 Post subject: Re: Get all the facts and speculations. Its the best we can
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 5:30 am 
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If Jayhawk wants to make you his personal project, then fine. The truth is that change comes from within, and if you aren't willing to give the optional ideals the same credibility that your patriotism to blind devotion gives you and open your eyes and ears , we're wasting our time on another obedient slave. Now answer questions and stop evading, slave.


no thx, 'twould be a royal waste of precious time. I notice that when Lew kept ranting on about the cell phone detail instead of following my lead to get a grip on the overall picture and first basic fact : they ( not Bush....3rd grader..."they")...let it happen. Once you can accept they let it happen, only then can you advance to further stages and go further into detail......such as "they planned and executed 9/11". I didn't even get that far with Lew. He's too busy nitpicking details from posts made by persons who are much further with their understanding and information base.

Let's face it folks, Lew is not worth the effort. Not our loss, his loss. Just another slave the Corporate America. Long live the King !

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 10:41 am 
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Remember Bucky? He refused to allow us to send him a copy of the DVD "Confronting the Evidence." He didn't WANT to accept the truth of what his government is capable of when it comes to advancing their agenda.

If Lew accepted the truth of the information we've been posting here, he'd have NOTHING to come to TVNL for. Then what's he going to do...Fox News gets boring, even for the brainwashed.


Catherine

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 3:12 pm 
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that makes sense. Entertainment we are....for that kinda folk. Battery draining excersises. One can learn from such engagements. What about a step by step plan on how to remove the tarnish of a thorough brainwashing on 9/11 ? Got an idea ?

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 3:34 pm 
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A procedure suggestion:

Step 1: Take the time to actually watch and listen to the "official" government story of who, what, where, why, how, and when pertaining to the 9/11 attacks... Take lots of notes. Pay close attention to WHO is saying WHAT. Note any noticable body language, such as facial expressions and eye movements.

Step 2: Read at least one book written about the attacks which support the government's story. Again, take lots of notes. Compare these notes with the notes you've taken previously. At this juncture, you might want to prepare a chart so you can see how the notes can be compared and contrasted.

Your Turn...

Catherine

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 4:34 pm 
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Step 0: learn to read

this where you started helping Catherine.

I had a reading disability in my youth. A reading teacher helped me accelerate to spead reading in two weeks. That changed my whole life. God bless her and all other good padagogics.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 4:49 pm 
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Step 3: jeez this is not easy, keep an open mind, focus on remaining objective. Allow wild ideas. Do a bit of personal brainstorming and write your thoughts down on your chart.

Your turn.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 5:03 pm 
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Step 4: Take a few moments to look back over everything you've written down, up to and including those wild ideas and personal brainstormings.
Add any questions and comments you may have about them or anything else you're thinking about that pertains to the attacks, and lightly mark through any of them that you think are just not possible. (Lightly mark, because later you may come back and say, "Wow...that wasn't so IMPOSSIBLE after all.")

Step 5: Now it's time to begin to look at the other side of the 9/11 Attacks Coin...so start another chart, similar to the first one, but this time, it will contain the information you're going to glean from a different point of view.

Watch the DVD entitled "Confronting the Evidence," and take copious notes, just like you did when watching the government's story. Write down comments, questions, and watch the participants on this DVD...are they sincere? Are they well-qualified to make the statements they're making? Are they credible? Note especially the physical evidence that is shown...such as the hole in the Pentagon's wall. Note anything about this dvd you want to on your chart.

Read at least one book which supports an alternative to the goverment's story...taking notes, and putting them onto your new chart.

Your turn...

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 5:13 pm 
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Wow, you assign a lot of reading. I used to hate (dislike) teachers that assigned a lot of reading.

Step 4: read the PNAC's "Rebuilding America's Defenses". Take note on what the Document lists as necessary actions. Read it twice if needed. Get a feel for the urgency to rebuild the military and the need to shift what was then current deployment strategies.

Actually, this is not a Step in the process. It's just another reading assignment, but this is the point in the process where it need be read and understood. A small amount of research is required, as usual.

Your turn.

ok, got my numbers wrong....my connection failed. Leave the above as a reading assignment.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 11:02 pm 
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Wow, you assign a lot of reading.


:lol: Sorry...I can get carried away because reading is an essential ingredient when doing good investigative research, IMHO ...maybe some skimming would be acceptible, and/or a perusal of the book's index, looking for pertinent information that compared and/or contrasted with previous notes and information.

Step 6...Look for patterns in how Bush began to utilize the 9/11 attacks for both political gain and for a support for his lies to justify an invasion of Iraq.

Could we then say that, if we could connect the 9/11 attacks to the Bush lies about WMDs, which would lead to the justification for the invasion of Iraq, that we've found the smoking gun with the magic, smoking bullet?

Or have I gotten too impatient?

Catherine

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 6:58 am 
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Reading can be tiresome. Skimming over is okay if done properly. Yes, this is where one needs to start connecting the dots. I would say there need be more steps but by Step 6 the pupil should be getting a good picture of who's who. How many steps do you think would be appropriate, keeping in mind it can be a long process for some and the risk of the pupil losing interest or becoming discouraged at the mountains of information which needs to be processed and understood, sometimes reviewed.

I wonder what Jesse can throw in here.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 7:22 am 
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Jesse? How about your opinion on this?

Catherine

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