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 Post subject: The Characters in the Bible: Perfect or Imperfect?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 3:43 pm 
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There are various characters in the Bible, and Eve is depicted as being the one who started the chain of events that led to her and Adam being ousted from that biblical utopia, the Garden of Eden. (You know, the wiles of the female...and all that.. :roll: ) Of course, Satan came along, disguised as that evil serpent, and tempted poor Eve, so she wasn't really to blame, was she?

Who created Satan? And why would some humans be susceptable to Satan in the first place? Who created this susceptibility? If Satan was created perfect, and then fell, where did the flaw of perdition come from? If God is perfect, then how in God's name did he end up creating something that would not choose perfection? Someone once said that a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit.

Back to Eve...if she was perfect, she would not have taken the fruit. If she wasn't , then God created imperfection...

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Catherine

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 6:36 pm 
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ok...let's start with adam and eve. if god is supposed to be all powerful and all knowing, why would he have created the devil to tempt eve?

i mean he's god...one swipe of his hand and the devil is gone...or, is the devil just as powerful as god?

why would god, after going thru all that hard work, so much in fact that he had to rest one day (which is another issue) then allow it all to be thrown away over a simple apple?

why would god even have to rest??? i mean he's god....why does god even rest?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:03 pm 
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hahahahaaa... dunno... you'll have to ask Him/Her/Them...

are Biblical characters perfect or imperfect? I'm going to go with imperfect...

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:08 pm 
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TheStripey1 wrote:
hahahahaaa... dunno... you'll have to ask Him/Her/Them...

are Biblical characters perfect or imperfect? I'm going to go with imperfect...


then why would god make imperfect beings?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:40 pm 
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so they could learn how to be perfect...

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:53 pm 
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I guess the serpent was just perfecting his art of deception then. Supposedly there was no devil at that time. Satan was a fallen angel who questioned gods creation ideals . The nerve of that guy. He also stole Lilith from Adam. The first fornicators. Lilith refused to be "Under" Adam. She had a different position than missionary in mind, obviously. Adam settled for Eve.

BTW Adam means Red Earth Man and Eve means life.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 9:39 pm 
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my favorite tale in the bible is noah's arc...that has to be the easiest story in the bible to shoot holes thru. in fact, so many holes you can sink that damn arc.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 10:15 pm 
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but I think they found it... they found it buried with Jimmy Hoffa...

:lol:

j/k...

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 10:22 pm 
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where is catherine...she started this.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 6:27 am 
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Catherine had severe storms in her area last evening and couldn't get online...

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I guess the serpent was just perfecting his art of deception then
.

An excellent point! In the bible, serpents talk, and so do burning bushes and donkeys, and a virgin is impregnated by a ghost. We're supposed to believe (if we believe the bible as being THE most important religious guidebook) that the earth was created in six literal days; that women come from a man's rib, that the entire world was flooded, covering the mountains to drown evil, that all animal species, millions of them, rode in one boat, that language variations stem from the Tower of Babel, that Moses had a magic wand and was able to part the waters of the Red Sea, that fish and bread magically multiplied to feed the hungry, that there is a fiery lake of eternal torment awaiting unbelievers under the earth, while there is life-after-death in a city which is 1, 500 miles cubed, with mansions and food, for CHRISTIANS only....we could go on and on and on.... :roll:

Deception is not just being touted by that serpent in the bible...the bible itself is an entire work of deceptive writings and full of contradictions.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 7:04 am 
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some bible history........


in early england, the church ordered the bible to be translated into english so that everyone could read it. they also ordered that all other written bible documents be burned...they say the fires lasted for 2 days.

the problem here is :

1. english translation...

A. we all know translating any language into english changes the wording and the meaning of the original text. (lost in the translation)

B. did the translators change original documents to suit the church's viewpoints and, in doing so, wrote their version of events? the "scholars" at the time were merely religious zealots.

2. by ordering any and all other documents and bibles burned, there won't be any available comparisons to make so that you could challenge the english version. (this should have been a clue they wanted to hide something.)

we all know how the church of england operated back then, so with just the facts stated above, the english version of the bible must be far from actual events recorded.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 1:09 pm 
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cmon, mga... you're not going to make those that folllow... no wait, those that read those words think differently about them with logic or with biblical history... heavens no... they are dyed in the wool believers and nothing will sway that belief...

contradictions within the text merely encourage them to interpret the writing to their advantage...

what amazes me... is that some of them will glom onto a particular law set forth in the old testament to persecute millions but will discard all the other laws set forth in the same passages... why is that?

I wish more people would actually FOLLOW the teachings of their religion rather than trying to mold it's tenets to fit their actions... know what I mean?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:36 pm 
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I think one thing worth mentioning here is that the point is not 'if God is perfect, then why did he create imperfect beings?'...isnt that the age ol question of 'why are we here?'

We should question our very existence. We are imperfect by every means, yet God created us. Why you ask? Well we are created because we are being tested on this Earth until the day we die.

Do you believe in Heaven/Hell?
Well if you dont, then this argument doesnt hold much weight, but in Islam we do believe in Heaven/Hell and thats why we are created and thats why we have been given the laws with which we are to govern one another in all aspects of existence. Those who fail, fail in the afterlife as well.

So going back to Eve. The reason that Eve coerced Adam to eat the apple was not because she was inherantly evil. It was pre-ordained by God, it was what HE willed so that we may learn the wrath of going against God.

Similarly, what is the purpose of Satan. Well in Islam, God took an oath that his people would follow his word despite Satan's evil ways. He allowed Satan to exist and his very existence is a test for humankind.

Everything bad in this world is not because God has forsaken us, its because we have chosen to forsake ourselves. God has given us all the tools we need in this world for success, but we choose to blame HIM because we dont want to look upon our own inadequacies. Why do that when you have somebody else (GOD) to blame?

Its simple, yet we make it so difficult.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:34 pm 
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then, many years later, god realized he fucked up, and decided to start all over again with noah's ark.....so, obviously, god does make mistakes, and after reading the bible, it looks like he's made plenty of them.

(i'm an atheist, so i don't have to worry about "the wrath of god".)

as for "satan" in the original post, a couple of questions on that one: if god, being the almighty and all powerful is just that, then why not do away with satan with one swipe of his hand? obviously he likes to keep satan around so that the weak religious people have something to fear. (kinda keeps them in line)

but, satan was never the bad giy that christianity teaches. satan wasn't demonized until later years by the europeans because they didn't like the jewish version of satan. so, the religious leaders in europe decided they wanted a more synister type of guy......viola! the devil.

jeiwsh religion, has for many years, believed that satan is a disciple of god, kinda of like a prosecutor for god, so to speak. he goes out and does all the tempting to see who is weak and who is not and reports back to the man. no hell to burn in and none of that white-man-european-christianity crap that is supposed to scare the dickens out of you.

many christians should do themselves a favor and research more about what they claim to believe in...it might open their eyes a bit..

.then again, maybe that's why they don't.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:50 am 
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Humans are perfect...perfectly human. Everything in creation is perfect. The fact we CHOOSE to place our own subjective judgements on things doesn't change the fact that, well, things are what they are, each thing existing in it's own individual perfection.

What is *perfect*? Isn't this in and of itself a relative term?

Could we, maybe, try having a bit of wonder, a bit of curiosity, and in the words of Jesus *be ye like a little child*. I imagine that each of us is perfect, each in our own way.

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